Husband Still Doesn't Want Kids

[rayne89]

WOW just WOW

I disagree with just about every post in this thread.

The Op husband was very up front wtih not wanting children, and even restated his intent before marriage, and after marriage…no secrets…

Why cant this be respected? God will works in many ways…not just thru marriage and children…

You may not be aware of this but not being open to children invalidates a marriage. That’s not my opinion or other people on the forums opinion that is the teaching of the Church.

1. What is the difference between a valid and an invalid Catholic marriage?

Just as individual states have certain requirements for civil marriage (e.g., a marriage license, blood tests), the Catholic Church also has requirements before Catholics can be considered validly married in the eyes of the Church. A valid Catholic marriage results from four elements: (1) the spouses are free to marry; (2) they freely exchange their consent; (3) in consenting to marry, they have the intention to marry for life, to be faithful to one another and be open to children; and (4) their consent is given in the presence of two witnesses and before a properly authorized Church minister. Exceptions to the last requirement must be approved by church authority.

usccb.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml

 

[catharina]

You may not be aware of this but not being open to children invalidates a marriage. That’s not my opinion or other people on the forums opinion that is the teaching of the Church.

usccb.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml

Thank you for providing the quote. I’ve said all along the OP needs to see her Marriage Tribumal since it seems her marriage is NOT a Sacramental marriage by any means.

 

[23eagle23]

You may not be aware of this but not being open to children invalidates a marriage. That’s not my opinion or other people on the forums opinion that is the teaching of the Church.

usccb.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml

I am aware of it, thank you…but he never agreed ???

But this isn’t a catholic marriage…

She became Catholic, not him. Do you think he wants to join the church with what is currently going on? and now she has the proof…what responiblitiy does she have in this situation? 180 degrees change and he has to comform?

My objection is the “beat him into submission, with the churchs teachings” at any cost aditude…

There have been a couple of posts on this thread “about how to make him change” that I find troubling…

and one last thing, she is catholic (NOW) but this isnt a catholic marriage…in your quote above “BOTH” persons must agree…he never has…

 

[rayne89]

I am aware of it, thank you…but he never agreed ???

But this isn’t a catholic marriage…

She became Catholic, not him. Do you think he wants to join the church with what is currently going on? and now she has the proof…what responiblitiy does she have in this situation? 180 degrees change and he has to comform?

My objection is the “beat him into submission, with the churchs teachings” at any cost aditude…

There have been a couple of posts on this thread “about how to make him change” that I find troubling…

and one last thing, she is catholic (NOW) but this isnt a catholic marriage…in your quote above “BOTH” persons must agree…he never has…

If she is in an invalid marriage and that’s if, in the eyes of the church she not married. Ofcourse no one should be “beat into submission” and it quite clear the man she married never wanted children. The point is she wants children, that’s not a minor thing, that’s a life changing event. If her marriage is invalid she is free to seek to have the marriage declared null and go on have a valid sacramental union with someone who wishes to have children.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

She became Catholic, not him. Do you think he wants to join the church with what is currently going on? and now she has the proof…what responiblitiy does she have in this situation? 180 degrees change and he has to comform?

Eagle,

The OP has every right to change her mind and realize that she made a mistake in agreeing to not have children.

and one last thing, she is catholic (NOW) but this isnt a catholic marriage…in your quote above “BOTH” persons must agree…he never has…

The Church teaches that a couple must be open to the possibility of having children. This is a fact that is not changed by whether or not one of the spouses doesn’t want to have children. He doesn’t have to agree; we’re talking about the definition of marriage here. That said, I have not seen any poster encourage the OP to go out and get pregnant without her husband’s knowledge. Obviously, we are praying, along with the OP, that her husband will change his mind.

 

[23eagle23]

Eagle,

The OP has every right to change her mind and realize that she made a mistake in agreeing to not have children.

The Church teaches that a couple must be open to the possibility of having children. This is a fact that is not changed by whether or not one of the spouses doesn’t want to have children. He doesn’t have to agree; we’re talking about the definition of marriage here. That said, I have not seen any poster encourage the OP to go out and get pregnant without her husband’s knowledge. Obviously, we are praying, along with the OP, that her husband will change his mind.

Thank you for the response. I dont disagree with what the church teaches…

I understand she has a right to change her mind, but he has a right not too. Quote"He doesn’t have to agree;" YES he does, it takes two…

I am having a hard time grasping that this forum is telling the OP she doesnt (more then likey) have a valid marriage, and to move on, and using catholic church teaching to do it…that is my problem…

 

[23eagle23]

Divoece is irrelevant if the OP is not in a Sacramental marriage.

Here is an example…

 

[catharina]

Here is an example…

I can see where ny bluntness might trouble people. Nonetheless, if the OP is including all the facts, then she, as a rather backslid Baptist girl, married a guy who is the son of wiccans. She describes that union as an act of rebellion on her part. If God has arranged a way out of the union, then so be it. It’s no kind of “real” (Sacramental) marriage if the guy has NEVER agreed to a marriage with children. In fact, it sounds like more of a business deal as in, let’s pool our assets and have some fun.

 

[23eagle23]

I can see where ny bluntness might trouble people. Nonetheless, if the OP is including all the facts, then she, as a rather backslid Baptist girl, married a guy who is the son of wiccans. She describes that union as an act of rebellion on her part. If God has arranged a way out of the union, then so be it. It’s no kind of “real” (Sacramental) marriage if the guy has NEVER agreed to a marriage with children. In fact, it sounds like more of a business deal as in, let’s pool our assets and have some fun.

catharina, if I may…

I agree with what you said above, but would like to add…
Loving marriage, he treats her well with love and compassion, and is honest…
OP changes her mind about Children when she reads a book, and becomes more involed in the chruch…

She is now looking for a justification from the church to make him change his mind, or she leaves…

I am sorry for the OP situation, Pray and love…God will give you the answer…he always does…

 

[catharina]

catharina, if I may…

I agree with what you said above, but would like to add…
Loving marriage, he treats her well with love and compassion, and is honest…
OP changes her mind about Children when she reads a book, and becomes more involed in the chruch…

She is now looking for a justification from the church to make him change his mind, or she leaves…

I am sorry for the OP situation, Pray and love…God will give you the answer…he always does…

If she’s looking to future within a Sacramental marriage, then the odds are (mathematically speaking) it won’t be with this man. She became Catholic. She wants to be (feels called to be) married. It’s very significant that he is the son of wiccans - since that’s an upbringing as opposed to any Christain thinking as one can have. She needs to take herself to her Marriage Tribunal and find some real answers. If it’s detremined that there is no valid marriage, then there is no valid marriage. May God bless her in her searching.

 

[23eagle23]

To the OP,

There are many different couples in the Bible with impossible situtations and Gods mercy found them and blessed them…

I pray God’s mercy finds you and your husband…

 

[Magickman]

I believe the OP desires the full experience of Christian marriage.

Her husband, otherwise a decent man, is denying her motherhood, within their union.

Their marriage, valid within secular law, nonetheless falls short of the requirements of marriage, within the Church.

Before it is too late, she should confront her husband with her needs as a Catholic wife. If he will not live up to these standards, he is no husband at all.

Leaving the marriage is a grave matter, but no less grave than denial of marriage’s central purposes.

Christian motherhood is a paramount value.

 

[newbetx]

Hi all, a good friend recommended this site to me!

First, I was raised a baptist all my life, and seriously rebelled during college. I met my now husband at UGA, and we lived together for about 3 years before getting married. He is extremely “progressive”, and has never wanted children. After I met him, my mind changed as well, and I didn’t want children either. He told me before we got married that we could not do so if I wanted kids, and I fully agreed.

Long story short, I became Catholic a little over two years ago, and my sponsor gave me Christopher West’s book. I didn’t read it at first, but I did try to convince my husband to get our marriage convalidated. He completely refused, so I got a radical sanation. After that, I sat down and read the book; and it completely changed my outlook on everything. I stopped using birth control, and this has caused enormous friction between us. He has not budged on the issue, and we have not had sex in over 5 months.

I now really want children, very much so. I have considered seeking a divorce, but I am unsure of obtaining an annulment after a radical sanation. I talked to my priest, and he said that a radical sanation is basically one-sided, and it only requires the intent of the Catholic spouse to adhere to Teaching. If that is met, then the marriage is valid.

My husband is basically now throwing a massive tantrum. He is so against having children, that he has already been to a Urologist for the “counseling” session, and has a vasectomy scheduled for one month from Tuesday. Is there anything I can do to stop him, or help him understand what true sexuality is about? I think if he has the vasectomy, it will be the end of our marriage. Knowing that it will never, ever be possible to have children will devastate me. At least now I can pray God changes his mind. I am feeling like if he does this, being divorced and unable to remarry would be no different than living with someone who is unwilling to give all of themself for something greater.

I’m sorry for your pain. And I understand. When I was first married, my first wife told me she preferred adoption over “our own”. Given our health history, I agreed. Wasn’t a question of if, but how… two years in, she developed an “allergy to children.” Needless to say, adoption was now, out of the question. And our life went to heck after that.

While I understand your new found enthusiasm for TOB (I’m there, too) you are suffering from the “problem” of knowing the Truth. If you spouse does not agree or refuses to accept it, it can be worse for you both than being ignorant of it.

But you promised him “no children”. And you are regretting that. You have stated exactly the very hard decision you have to make. Stay with the one you married because that is what you promised to do or decide to leave because you believe you can not fufill God’s “new” plan for you. And depending on your marriage validity, you may still not be able to wed again and remain in the Church. You are in the proverbial “between a rock and a hard place.” This is awful for you (and your husband.)

I’m sorry I can’t offer you a quick way out of your pain, but I wanted to let you know you are not alone. Please pray for God’s guidance. I will, too.

Not all doctors require the wifes approval for a vascetomy. A call the the surgeon, may delay the inevitable, but I don’t know what recourse you have to entice your husband to read about TOB and have a constructive discussion about children, NFP and your respect for each other.

One last thing to consider is Retrouvaille. It may help you two find a way to talk through this.

May the Lord’s Peace be with you.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I understand she has a right to change her mind, but he has a right not too. Quote"He doesn’t have to agree;" YES he does, it takes two…

I am having a hard time grasping that this forum is telling the OP she doesnt (more then likey) have a valid marriage, and to move on, and using catholic church teaching to do it…that is my problem…

Eagle,

Perhaps I was not clear, but what I was trying to say is that it doesn’t matter what the husband believes the definition and purpose of marriage is. We know that marriage has a particular definition and purpose that is not dependent on whether or not people believe it. He doesn’t have to believe that spouses should be open to life; we all know it’s true anyway.

Also, I know you probably were not speaking about me, but I wanted to say that I did not tell the woman to move on. My advice to the OP would be to speak with her priest, her husband and God about the situation.

God bless.

 

[ChooseLove]

Oh yes, when my husband was not open to having children, I prayed to Our Gentle Mother. She has a way of softening, even the hardest of hearts!

Tools of the trade:
Miraculous Medal (Hid it in hubbys truck … hee …hee)
Green Scapular (I put one under my hubby’s side of the bed)
Holy water (sprinkled around the house and esp. on the bed )
Blessed salt (I cooked with it)
Neverending novena to St. Joseph ( I just kept saying it )
MANY MANY spiritual warfare prayers (these really stirred things up, and requires perseverance and prayer support)

I was a sly sucker and did all of this in secret.

Oh and I removed ALL reading materials from the bathroom, except The Catholic Church has the Answer booklet on the back of the potty. Then I pretended I didn’t hear him when he hollered for me.

Things got VERY worse, but when the dust cleared, my husband said that he wanted to convert (I passed out) When I came to, he then started to cry and said he wanted St. Joseph to be his patron saint (I passed out again.)

When his RCIA instructor found out the things I had done, he whistled, shook his head and looked at my husband and said,“You were toast, you didn’t even have a chance.” LOL

I pray that you’re husband may be enlightened as well. That would be wonderful, because it sounds like you really love him. But love on its own does not a sacramental marriage make. You really need to just stay close to God and see where He takes you. God bless.

wooo hooo glad to hear someone else did the same things to their husband as me and it worked for mine too he didn’t stand a chance.
i also sprinkled holy water in his office… boy did the hair stand up on the back of my neck and gave me the hebejebees!

 

[kycanonist]

Okay, I think something that needs to be clarified is that not only Catholic marriages are held to the basic natural laws of marriage.

God created marriage to be:

1. permanent
2. exclusive
3. ordered to the procreation and education of children
4. ordered to the good of the spouses.

This is for ALL marriages, all over the world, regardless of faith. In order for it to be defined as “marriage” it must be until death parts the couple, it must be between one man and one woman, the parties must exchange the right to a relationship that is open to the possibility of children, and the parties must exchange the right to a relationship that is mutually edifying (ex. not like two singles living in one house and not like a master/servant relationship… a partnership of equals).

This is the definition of marriage as per c. 1050. This is for everyone, not just Catholics, because it is a matter of God’s natural law. This is not Church law - this is how God created marriage and for it to be true marriage, it must be these things, be it sacramental or not.

It is this definiton of “marriage” that was then raised to the dignity of a Sacrament through Christ.

So, if someone chooses to enter marriage with an intention against any of these things, then they are creating a relationship contrary to the definiton of marriage and therefore it’s not “marriage.” In order for it to be marriage, it must have these components, otherwise it’s just a civil contract. Basic marriage theology stuff here.

I’d highly recommend reading the book “Annulment - The Wedding That Was” by Michael Smith Foster. The whole first half of the book explains what marriage is, and then the whole second half of the book explains what marriage isn’t (i.e. the annulment process).

Marriage by definition is not subjective but objective. You cannot believe you are married and therefore make it so… it’s not fantasy. There are objective tests as to whether someone has actually contracted marriage. If you do not accept the objective reality, then it’s not marriage by definition.

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

kycannonist, thanks for that post! That was really good… there were some bits that I didn’t fully understand until you laid it out like that.

Good thing an actual cannon lawyer chimed in, here!

 

[ElizabethAnne]

God created marriage to be:

1. permanent
2. exclusive
3. ordered to the procreation and education of children
4. ordered to the good of the spouses.

This is for ALL marriages, all over the world, regardless of faith.

Thank you kycanonist! Your post was clear, to the point and captured the issue beautifully!

 

[kycanonist]

I’m always glad to be of help in any way that I can…