Husband won't sleep with wife

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NFPfamily,

THANKS!

From that thread.
Now, we’re on about the 5th beer by now, so *I tell him that he is in serious mortal sin by refusing/avoiding his wife in that way. It doesn’t matter what you think she looks like, you still have to do it. It’s your job.
*
He said I was crazy, and that wasn’t a sin. I told him that he needed to go see Father, right away, for a good confession, and get ‘busy’. He won’t, since he’s sure I don’t know what I’m talking about.
emphasis added.
I’m happy to report, thanks to the kind posters on this forum, tons of material found on the net, as well as his Priest, he has had a chance examine his own conscience, and found that, yes it IS, without a doubt, a very serious sin to avoid/deny marital relations to one’s spouse, that HE is/was the problem, and that he was most certainly mistaken to think that she didn’t care, or miss the embrace. Father recommended Marriage Encounter, and they will attend a weekend. My wife reports that his wife has said he has ‘gotten very busy’, lately.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
emphasis added.

I noticed that the other thread has vaporized. I hope it wasn’t because of my lack of charity. But since the Catholicity of the marriage debt is/was part of the discussion I thought it would be valuable to illustrate that when the shoe is on the other foot, there seemed to be no problem with it being pointed out that denying the marriage debt is a sin.
 
Black Jaque:
I noticed that the other thread has vaporized. I hope it wasn’t because of my lack of charity. But since the Catholicity of the marriage debt is/was part of the discussion I thought it would be valuable to illustrate that when the shoe is on the other foot, there seemed to be no problem with it being pointed out that denying the marriage debt is a sin.
Yes, excellent point. It’s another example of the feminist double standard.
 
Black Jaque:
I hope I’ve illustrated the possibilities that might explain how a man can be the one denying his wife the blessed marital embrace. Although it is less common for this situation to occur.
These reasons all sound negotioable. Assuming good will from both parties, this can be talked about. A different room that is still comfortable. An agreement that honest attempts to please will not be ridiculed. Respect offered so that some relations are had, and not refused entirely. I guess I just wonder if the people who flatly refuse forever don’t have more on their minds than just this. Either that, or perhaps they’re selfish, in which case the lonely spouse is probably out of luck in more ways than just sex.

Of course, this is my personal experience speaking, but it is really hard to reason outside of it. I’ve had relations enough times without wanting to. That can’t be the only issue. It’s got to be more than just not wanting to.:confused:

Also, I must point out that having a spouse who refuses to have sex and only once in a while will “do it” under protest and with obvious disgust or dismay, well, eventually even the one who does want relations will start to say forget it, no more, this isn’t marital relations. Then there will be two refuseniks in the house.

The appearance issue is not so negotiable. I’ve seen men demand that a woman work out 3 days a week at the gym. (No, I do NOT think this is common). I can see why the woman gets sick of that after awhile, especially if she’s in her sixties and it makes her knees sore. I think a request that the person bathe, cut their hair, and use soap are more reasonable requests. (assuming an affluent enough lifestyle).

This issue is so near to me, perhaps I can’t see it clearly.
 
I’d suggest that he read the Vatican document…Pastoral Care for the Liberation of Women of the Street. Although it is addressed to women he might interject he/him for she/her and vise versa.
Who is the victim? She is torn apart, she is dead psychologically and spiritually.
Has your friend become dead spiritually and psychologically to the point of simply feeling a bondage like relationship with his spouse?
  1. Who Is The “Client”?
It is clear from research that men increasingly seek out prostitutes for reasons of domination rather than for sexual gratification
Maybe your friend’s spouse is seeking more to dominate than to truly love her husband.
 
Pug,

The question came up where someone was having difficulty imagining how a man could be the refusenik. I was in no way attempting to justify his behavior.

Your point that those were all negotiable is spot on!
 
Oh I get it! Those bracelets that say WWJD stand for “what would Jonah do”! Duh. Here I thougth it stood for “what would Jesus do”.
You go ahead and enjoy being you.
LOL… cute…

I do rather enjoy being ME, thank you very much.

I don’t know what Jesus would do in a situation as described above. I really, really don’t. Because I can not for one minute belive that Christ would want me to feel used. I don’t think he would just say, “Get over it, and just lay there.” IF that’s the type of god you have… well, I can honestly say your god is not my God.
 
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states

ARTICLE 7****THE SACRAMENT OF MATRIMONY
1649 Yet there are some situations in which living together becomes practically impossible for a variety of reasons. In such cases the Church permits the physical *separation *of the couple and their living apart. The spouses do not cease to be husband and wife before God and so are not free to contract a new union. In this difficult situation, the best solution would be, if possible, reconciliation. The Christian community is called to help these persons live out their situation in a Christian manner and in fidelity to their marriage bond which remains indissoluble.159
I guess the worst scene for an unresolved couple would be physical separation. The choice would be theirs…but they would not be free to bed down with anyone new.
 
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setter:
Instead of placing blame over who offended who first, this couple needs to check in with each other and make amends to be able to move forward. I believe that the mutual emotional abuse as an obstacle to intimacy, especially as it impacts the ability to render good on the marriage debt, needs to be addressed to a satisfactory degree. Otherwise the marriage rights will be further abused, as in compounding resentment over feeling used. The fact is that this husband is feeling emotionally used and abused.
I agree, that is why I suggested counseling, Retrouvaille, Marriage Encounter, confession, and consulting with a priest. Any/all of these would lead toward healing and away from blaming.
 
Woman stabbed husband for refusing sex
**Ananova ^ **| 2/21/06 | Staff

Posted on 02/21/2006 8:19:22 AM PST by Millee

An Argentinian woman has been arrested for stabbing her husband because he did not have sex with her.

The 52-year-old, from Buenos Aires, stabbed her husband in the back but he was not seriously injured. She told police she had spent the day trying to get him into bed but he had ignored all of her hints. Read more
A police spokesperson said: “She did not think she did anything wrong, she kept saying that he was her husband and that he had to fulfil his obligations and that because he didn’t she had the right to punish him.”
 
contemplative said:
Woman stabbed husband for refusing sex
Ananova ^ | 2/21/06 | Staff

Posted on 02/21/2006 8:19:22 AM PST by Millee

An Argentinian woman has been arrested for stabbing her husband because he did not have sex with her.

The 52-year-old, from Buenos Aires, stabbed her husband in the back but he was not seriously injured. She told police she had spent the day trying to get him into bed but he had ignored all of her hints. Read more

That could have gone an entirely different way. Woman mad at husband for refusing sex? Knife? Paging Dr. Bobbit…
 
pheww…I’ve never had to dig so much for stuff… been married 20 some years and never ??ed this topic…marital chastity/obligations…
Each sexual union is intended to be a ratification of the covenant between the spouses. When one partner is unwilling while a full physical coital union occurs, or no full physical union occurs and sexual pleasure is the motivation of any physical affective activity, the act is thoroughly wicked and immoral.

The varied possible motivations of anti-unitive and anti-procreative acts do not alter the immoral nature of said acts. Any act that violates any of the goods of marriage is immoral. ‘Contraception’s failure to respect the full meaningfulness of sex, to treat the sexual act as unrelated to the goods that give it its profound meaning, is ultimately destructive.’
article
Certain disciplines can help to promote chastity, however, some of which are listed below:
A. Freedom and consent. The couple decides to have sex by mutual consent. This principle is not violated if one does not particularly feel like it, but decides to do so to please the other. It is violated when one forces the issue through manipulation or violence. Marital rape is a reality, and it is highly immoral (even when such sex takes place without the use of artificial contraception). Pope John Paul II was criticized a few years ago for making this point, but it is a good and important one. Freedom and consent, here, also apply to the kinds of sexual acts the couple experiences. Within the context of marriage and consent, it would seem that a couple is free to do whatever they so choose (oral sex, mutual masturbation, etc.) providing they evaluate their behavior as described below. B. Love and Enjoyment. Sex is to express love. It is also to be enjoyed. Married couples ought to be creative in finding ways to give joy and pleasure to one another in their sexual lovemaking. C. Abstinence. As with all enjoyments (eating, drinking, a special hobby), it is good to be abstinent from time to time, especially when sex has become “routine.” The NFP cycle provides for this, but couples using artificial contraception can do the same when they discern the need. Periodic abstinence for the sake of self-mastery and spiritual growth is a valuable discipline, as the various encyclicals on human sexuality have noted. D. Openness to new life. Although we do not believe that every sexual act ought to be potentially open to bringing forth new life (Nature Herself does not allow for this possibility), it is nonetheless obvious that procreation is one of the functions of human sexuality. Couples ought to consider bringing children into the world, and ought to pray and dialogue to discern when (or if) the time is right for this. Couples who discern that it is better for them not to have children ought to do something to help support those who have decided to be parents. Needless to say, this openness to new life requires that couples who experience an unplanned pregnancy see to it that the developing child is brought to term and placed for adoption if the parents do not want to raise the child. Abortion is unacceptable as a method of birth control, for it destroys a new life that has been conceived. E. Generosity. Married love ought to help both individuals become more generous. This is the surest sign that the Spirit is working in the relationship. Relationships that become too exclusive because of sexuality issues do not evidence the Spirit. These five guidelines together give a profile of chastity in marriage. No one of them should be followed without also considering the others. For example, if only guideline #2 were followed apart from the others, a couple could find their sexual relationship making them more exclusive and lustful. Taken as a whole, however, they do provide a means for balancing and correcting excesses.
article
 
I really don’t like hearing lovemaking between a husband and wife referred to as a “duty” or a “debt”…sounds kinda like a bill needing to be paid. And in my opinion, therein lies the problem…
Kathy
 
Contemplative,

Attagirl! Now you’re backing your argument up with something.

I did notice that one of your sources advocated contraception which indicates it might not be the most convincing source for folks around here.

However, I will point out:
The couple decides to have sex by mutual consent. This principle is not violated if one does not particularly feel like it, but decides to do so to please the other.
 
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Katie1723:
I really don’t like hearing lovemaking between a husband and wife referred to as a “duty” or a “debt”…sounds kinda like a bill needing to be paid. And in my opinion, therein lies the problem…

Kathy
This obviously isn’t a thought that some members share here on CAForums. I’m very thankful** not to be** married to some overly demanding spouse who can’t seem to understand that love means letting go…freedom…not gripping onto…must be an awful burden to be strapped to someone who thinks that sex is a duty or debt in marriage…how very empty must be the person who always concedes to a bully’s demands in bed. I can picture it…“whomp…thud…look at the Bible…it is my right to get sex from you!..snarl…snort”
 
And likewise, it is also thankful that some aren’t married to others who show no care or concern for the intimacy needs of the other. Even if they cannot fill those needs, they can atleast show some understanding and care. Maybe even told that Mary and Joseph didn’t have sex, so we can be that way too.
 
“When one partner is unwilling while a full physical coital union occurs”
Contemplative, what does “unwilling” mean? In my book it refers to rape, where the partner does not choose to have intercourse. It does not refer to someone who chooses to though they don’t feel like it.
 
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Katie1723:
I really don’t like hearing lovemaking between a husband and wife referred to as a “duty” or a “debt”…sounds kinda like a bill needing to be paid. And in my opinion, therein lies the problem…
Code:
                 Kathy
Some seem to regard marital intimacy as rape, or close to it…

Somehow prejorative words or words calculated to create negative connotations don’t seem quite reasonable…or accurate …

Wonder where these folks are “coming from”…
 
sounds kinda like a bill needing to be paid. And in my opinion, therein lies the problem…
Have you ever paid a debt? It’s one of the most liberating and joyful feelings you’ll get. Far, far from being a problem.
 
Let’s get back on track…OP, it seems like this couple needs professional help. I would advise them to seek couples therapy before the problem gets worse.
 
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