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maryjk
Guest
Honestly, the OP didn’t say much.
In fact, she came here, posted once, never to return. Not even to read the responses.
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In fact, she came here, posted once, never to return. Not even to read the responses.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Don’t be so sure she hasn’t been reading all of this. Just because she’s got too much sense to chime in with her side of things does not mean she hasn’t read what we all think she ought to do. She may very well have decided that she’s gotten “feedback” as if it’s coming out of a fire hose as it is, and that may be quite enough for her. I would not blame her.Honestly, the OP didn’t say much.
In fact, she came here, posted once, never to return. Not even to read the responses.
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maryjk
Guest
If she is reading all of this, she is coming back without logging in. Of course that is possible, but likely? I don’t know.
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4most4christ
Guest
You are wistfully fixating on that which you can’t change. Do you drive looking constantly in the rear view mirror? No, so I’d suggest communicating these feelings with you husband - his response may pleasantly surprise you - which will bring you closer as a couple committed to one another. Make that day & discussion the line of demarcation, changing from being depressingly fixated on things you can’t change to living this new life with the husband who chose you and loves you.
We will lovingly pray for you & your hubby to move past this. You state the biblical direction wonderfully!!! I also wish I had not had sexual encounters before my marriage, but knowing this, I enourage others likewise to restrain themselves from sex until marriage, having “walked the walk”. I hope your husband cherishes you & vice versa. I think I’ll surprise my wife with flowers (which she adores) today, to show her my love.
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EasterJoy
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I’ve been known to do it. You only need to log in if you’re going to post. Still, if her intention was merely to issue a warning and be done with it, it might not have occurred to her to come back for the replies.
Or she may have a real life that is keeping her busy. That can happen, too.
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Xantippe
Guest
Easter Joy said:
“OK, but her husband did not give her chastity. He gave her a spotty record on that.”
Would you really say that St. Augustine was not chaste, say 10 years after his conversion? I don’t know how the Church uses the terminology, but I would think that in normal language, chaste means chaste now (and with at least some track record), just as financially responsible means financially responsible now (and with some track record). Example: Dave Ramsey is financially responsible now, despite the fact that he went bankrupt 20-30 years ago after making some terrible financial decisions.
Let’s say that her husband is chaste and has been chaste for some time, but he hasn’t always been chaste. I think that gives him the credit he deserves, and no more.
“A widow or widower who marries again has still not violated the marriage bed, nor has a person who has attempted a marriage later declared null. Think of their past relationship, and you know they were always faithful. That makes a difference, and I don’t see why that isn’t obvious.”
It makes a difference, but interestingly, I have often seen advice column letters from 2nd wives who are jealous of their husband’s deceased 1st wife or haunted by her and struggling to deal with even the briefest mentions of her. No matter how licit the previous relationship, we do not warm to the thought of our spouse being with another person, either before or after us. (I have told my husband to remarry in the case of my predeceasing him, but I have suggested that he wait a year before dating, as I think less than a year is disrespectful, suggesting that any warm body will do to replace me.)
“I have come to expect that the person stuck with getting through this is going to get precious little sympathy for it when they do. I’ve also found that virgins who want to marry another virgin get more grief for that on this forum (of all places) than financially responsible people who want to marry someone with a good credit record. The latter is only irresponsibility with money, but for some reason that is held to be more important than irresponsibility with the sexual faculty!”
“OK, but her husband did not give her chastity. He gave her a spotty record on that.”
Would you really say that St. Augustine was not chaste, say 10 years after his conversion? I don’t know how the Church uses the terminology, but I would think that in normal language, chaste means chaste now (and with at least some track record), just as financially responsible means financially responsible now (and with some track record). Example: Dave Ramsey is financially responsible now, despite the fact that he went bankrupt 20-30 years ago after making some terrible financial decisions.
Let’s say that her husband is chaste and has been chaste for some time, but he hasn’t always been chaste. I think that gives him the credit he deserves, and no more.
“A widow or widower who marries again has still not violated the marriage bed, nor has a person who has attempted a marriage later declared null. Think of their past relationship, and you know they were always faithful. That makes a difference, and I don’t see why that isn’t obvious.”
It makes a difference, but interestingly, I have often seen advice column letters from 2nd wives who are jealous of their husband’s deceased 1st wife or haunted by her and struggling to deal with even the briefest mentions of her. No matter how licit the previous relationship, we do not warm to the thought of our spouse being with another person, either before or after us. (I have told my husband to remarry in the case of my predeceasing him, but I have suggested that he wait a year before dating, as I think less than a year is disrespectful, suggesting that any warm body will do to replace me.)
“I have come to expect that the person stuck with getting through this is going to get precious little sympathy for it when they do. I’ve also found that virgins who want to marry another virgin get more grief for that on this forum (of all places) than financially responsible people who want to marry someone with a good credit record. The latter is only irresponsibility with money, but for some reason that is held to be more important than irresponsibility with the sexual faculty!”
- It’s fine to want to marry a virgin, but that is going to mean waiting longer than people who aren’t so picky. I think I would not be very sympathetic to somebody who a) wanted to marry a virgin and b) was whining about not finding anybody and the prospect of dying alone. If it’s so very important, it should be worth the wait to you. Our OP is paying the price for marrying a non-virgin, but she has a husband, which might well not have happened if she were more picky.
- A good credit record is something that you can get back even after catastrophic financial problems, if you have a long enough record of subsequent good behavior.
- I think 2 or 3 years of good behavior makes quite a big difference, both for sexual and financial problems. If a person can be chaste and financially under control for 2 years, I think they are a pretty good risk.
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EasterJoy
Guest
No one is whining. She said it was harder than she thought, even though she hoped to have made nothing of it. Instead of sympathy for a difficult time, people are arguing with her and trying to make this a problem with *her and removing all responsibility for what she is experiencing from him. That is grossly unfair and unrealistic. To go beyond even that to say that a virgin who wants someone who also saved himself for her did well to take someone who didn’t because otherwise she might not have a husband at all if–Heaven forbid!–she expected the same thing from *him that she by her self-mastery was able to give to him? That is beyond the pale. It makes my jaw drop.
St. Augustine may not be your best rebuttal witness. If The Confessions are not a very long treatise on “how I wish I had not done what I did”, I don’t know what is. Besides, while he did have a 13 year affair that produced a son, he never married. And yes, I’m saying he’s the first one who will tell you that while there will be great saints who at the end of time will have the crown of perpetual chastity to throw at the foot of the Throne of God in thanksgiving and to the glory of God, he will not be one of them.
Fornication is not just an offense against God and the dignity of your partner in the sin. It is also an offense against your future marriage, and it is realistic to expect it may be felt as such. If the person who committed the fornication is not to be condemned when that consequence is later felt, then surely the person who did not commit any fornication is not to be condemned, either.
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Evania
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
None of that is relevant because she knew going in that he wasn’t a virgin. There is no reason why this should be his problem. This is completely on her to get over and move on.
He did something wrong, he confessed, he did things right from then on out, he told his future wife the truth, she accepted him anyway, and now she gets to bring this up to him and say that her feelings are his fault because of what he did before meeting her? No, her feelings are her responsibility, he’s done everything he can and it would be petty and cruel for her to throw this in his face.
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EasterJoy
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She’s not throwing it in his face. She isn’t rejecting him over it. As far as we know, she hasn’t even mentioned it to him!
Considering how much people are getting on her case for projecting things into existence for which there is no evidence, it is pretty hard to sit here and watch her be accused of pettiness and cruelty for an act we don’t even know she committed. That is unnecessarily harsh, and at this point it is rash.
Can I also say that “The degree to which what I did then affects you now is your problem and yours alone, not mine, because I have expressed contrition and moved on” is not the best recipe for a happy marriage? Are we telling people this: “hey, if you’re sexually active now before you marry, but you confess it and move on, don’t worry, it won’t cause any problems in your marriage. If it does, that’s your spouse’s thing to get over, not yours. That is because confession and amendment of life totally releases you from all responsibility for the emotional consequences of your actions. Once you confess, the only thing left on your tab is concrete stuff, like antibiotics and child support”?
If not that, then what other consequences of his sex before marriage are his?
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Joe_5859
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She’s not talking about throwing it in his face, though. She just admitted to feeling more pain by it than she thought she would.
I don’t think anything in marriage is simply “completely on” one party to “get over and move on.” I’m sure I have my issues that are not technically my wife’s problem as she has her issues that are not technically my problem. But since we’re married, one’s problems are the probems of both.
Again, I think we all agree that she will ultimately need to get over it and move on. But I would question any attempt at doing so that leaves the husband out of the equation. They need to communicate and work through it together. How they do that is up to them.
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Xantippe
Guest
“No one is whining. She said it was harder than she thought, even though she hoped to have made nothing of it.”
I wasn’t talking about whining about the OP, with regard to anyone who posts on the forum wanting to marry a virgin, but also complaining about the wait.
Here’s what I wrote:
“It’s fine to want to marry a virgin, but that is going to mean waiting longer than people who aren’t so picky. I think I would not be very sympathetic to somebody who a) wanted to marry a virgin and b) was whining about not finding anybody and the prospect of dying alone. If it’s so very important, it should be worth the wait to you. Our OP is paying the price for marrying a non-virgin, but she has a husband, which might well not have happened if she were more picky.”
Isn’t that true?
I wasn’t talking about whining about the OP, with regard to anyone who posts on the forum wanting to marry a virgin, but also complaining about the wait.
Here’s what I wrote:
“It’s fine to want to marry a virgin, but that is going to mean waiting longer than people who aren’t so picky. I think I would not be very sympathetic to somebody who a) wanted to marry a virgin and b) was whining about not finding anybody and the prospect of dying alone. If it’s so very important, it should be worth the wait to you. Our OP is paying the price for marrying a non-virgin, but she has a husband, which might well not have happened if she were more picky.”
Isn’t that true?
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Evania
Guest
Where does it say that she threw this in his face? I’m kind of at a loss at some of the posts on here, especially since she gave no indication that she even brought this up to her spouse in the first place. All that she has done, is state her FEELINGS to us, and in so doing has been put on blast for feeling her valid emotions. Did I miss a follow up post in which she gave more information about confronting her repentant spouse and telling him everything is his fault? I’m not trying to be facetious. Maybe I need to double check…
I’m pretty positive that she posted once, and she was merely expressing her feelings and was sending a warning to others of the pain that a future spouse might feel if one doesn’t practice purity before marriage. I don’t understand why this post is striking a nerve with a lot of people. Nothing in her post struck me as petty as cruel…
She admitted that it hurt her once she experienced the marital union (I dunno… Maybe because the marital embrace was designed to be between spouses and since it is such a powerful unitive act, she saw the beauty behind the act once she experienced it). If God designed such an act to be between spouses, and if in fact sin wounds more than just ourselves, I fail to see the outrage over this woman’s hurt.
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BlueEyedLady
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I don’t think there’s a lot of outrage at the OP. I think most of it is towards posters like EasterJoy who blame the husband for these feelings. Her feelings are not his fault, and since there is nothing that can be done about this, and she knew about his past before marrying him that it is a waste of time and energy to worry about this and that it would be wrong and selfish to bring it up to her husband.
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FrenzyJen
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It would be wrong and selfish to tell her husband her fears and emotions? That sounds right about right. Healthy start to a marriage. Great communication practice.
Wrong. She needs to tell him how she feels.
Wrong. She needs to tell him how she feels.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
No, she does not need to lay all of that on her new husband because there’s nothing he can do. She needs to realize that it’s in the past, there’s nothing that can be done, and that dwelling on this will only make things worse.
It would be unfair to marry someone and then tell them that their past is a problem for you. That’s just irrational.
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EasterJoy
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Oh, you don’t? She a) told people it was important to avoid sex before marriage and b) asked for prayers. She did not ask for advice. Let us sample some of the early returns:
*He told you about his past and you married him anyway. From where I’m sitting, you have nothing to complain about.
If this is the worst thing you have to deal with, your life is truly charmed.
This is the bottom line. You’ve made a choice and you have to live with it.
No one is saying that’s easy or denies that it can knock you around emotionally. But you owe it to your husband to work through that and deal with it.
With all due respect, when you throw it “out there” to the world you have to be prepared for the bluntness of responses and it various degrees or don’t post it to begin with.
Being charitable doesn’t always mean to hold someone’s hand and say, “there, there, it will be okay.”
Sometimes it means to stand up in front of them and say, “Stop feeling sorry for yourself. It isn’t as bad as you are making it out to be.”
The OP is a newly wed. This should be some of the happiest days of her life. Yet she is focusing on something that can’t be changed.*
and then, at last, she has this to feast on:
It’s fine to want to marry a virgin, but that is going to mean waiting longer than people who aren’t so picky. I think I would not be very sympathetic to somebody who a) wanted to marry a virgin and b) was whining about not finding anybody and the prospect of dying alone. If it’s so very important, it should be worth the wait to you. Our OP is paying the price for marrying a non-virgin, but she has a husband, which might well not have happened if she were more picky.
Well, now, that’s a fine Catch-22! If someone maintains her virginity prior to marriage, you in the “protect the husband (the one she never attacked in the first place)” crowd are going to chide her or being too picky–bringing up the possibility that she might DIE ALONE even!?!–if she won’t look past a potential spouse’s sexual past, and yet also chide her for finding the sexual past difficult to adjust to if she does elect to try to get past it!! And yet somehow I’m the one who’s being lectured at because admitting that sexual sins have temporal consequences, lest I be to judgmental towards her husband?
Oh, no, heaven forbid we allow the OP to tell single people that their fornication might hurt the feelings of a future spouse. That would be too much guilt to heap on them, and we can’t have that. Let’s heap it on the messenger, instead, the messenger who before her marriage used to agree with you!!!
Why don’t you just say it? “Your sexual adventures before marriage should be no business of your future spouse, as long as you didn’t pick up a disease or get someone pregnant.” Reword: “Virginity is not totally irrelevant, but nearly so.”
Correct me where I’m wrong on that.
Mind you, I don’t want to demonize her husband. That’s not the point. The point is that sex before marriage does damage it, there is work to be done to get past that, and expecting the person who didn’t have sex before marriage to take on all that work by herself, lest she be labeled an unforgiving person who does not believe in repentance, is not fair. It is natural that they will have this to work through, it is theirs to work through, not just hers, and it is wrong to jump on her because she was surprised at how hard the work has turned out to be. That’s where I’m coming from.
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Evania
Guest
Easter Joy is stating that it’s understandable that the OP would feel hurt. Here’s what she said:
Fornication is not just an offense against God and the dignity of your partner in the sin. It is also an offense against your future marriage, and it is realistic to expect it may be felt as such. If the person who committed the fornication is not to be condemned when that consequence is later felt, then surely the person who did not commit any fornication is not to be condemned, either.
That’s what the Church teaches. It is a sin. Sin wounds not only the participants but it is also far-reaching and wounds society as a whole. One can only look around them and see that to be true. If it can wound society, it can wound those closest to us, especially when it was a gift God intended to be for the wife in the first place. By stating that reality, we are validating the wife’s feelings.
Again, while it is true that the OP knew of the reality of her husband to be’s sexual past, she was unprepared for how it would affect her once she experienced the sacredness and beauty of the act. Before you’re a parent, you know that once you have children you’ll love them. Does that prepare you for the intensity of that love once it becomes a reality? Sometimes the sacredness of an event isn’t realized until it is fulfilled in your life.
Hence the OP’s warning…
Easter Joy is defending the young woman as there was outrage directed toward her. Please see the earlier messages. (Which could be why there was never a follow up post on her part).
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Evania
Guest
“Oh, no, heaven forbid we allow the OP to tell single people that their fornication might hurt the feelings of a future spouse. That would be too much guilt to heap on them, and we can’t have that. Let’s heap it on the messenger, instead, the messenger who before her marriage used to agree with you!!!”
- That’s basically it in a nutshell. :clapping::clapping::clapping:
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atugirl
Guest
Thank you for the replies and advice, especially Evania, KC2844, ReginaLove, Lastingfaith, Viki63, Dorothy, mountee, Loving disciple, Monicad, Joe 5859, FrenzyJen, Kelfa28, LongingSoul, EasterJoy. I find praying with my husband, adoration, and mass helps. I wouldn’t trade my husband for anyone! I simply asked for prayers and wanted to reach out to other single people about my experience in hopes of stopping them from committing mortal sin and saving themselves. God Bless and please continue to pray for me.
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