Hussain ibn Ali ( grandson of Muhammad ) and his death in comparison to Christ's sacrifice

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The Story of Hussain was one thing that i like about islam ( islam being a false religion )
i want to know what some of you may think about his death and sacrifice vs that our Lord’s death on the cross

how much of this account ( Hussain’s) do you think is true and how much do you think is made up

sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5975:40-ahadith-regarding-lamentation-for-imam-hussein-as&catid=622&Itemid=692

^^^^^ here is a link showing the amount of love the shia have for hussain and his family
it seems to very similar to our love of the holy family with hussian being sort of loved like Jesus and people being sorrowful over his death like mary’s and the apostles sorrow over Christ
the women of his family being praised and honored in a way Mary is honored by us

and belong is a short video describing the event ( not in full detail but you can easily find videos on the entire battle and his life , this video just covers the last moments of his life )

youtube.com/watch?v=Np9Lhrvuwv0
 
One very interesting hadith from the link mentions this
what do you think ???

Hadith No. 39
Isa(Jesus) (AS) weeps

Imam A’li (AS) said to Ibn A’bbas:
(Once when he happened to pass by Karbala), Isa Jesus (AS) sat down and began to weep. His disciples who were observing him, followed suit and began weeping too, but not comprehending the reason for this behaviour, they asked him:“O’ Spirit of God! What is it that makes you weep?” Isa Jesus (AS) said: “Do you know what land this is?” The disciples replied: “No.” He then said: "This is the land on which the son of the Prophet Ahmad (p.b.u.h) shall be killed.
Bihar al-Anwar vol. 44,g. 252.
 
Well, if we apply historicity and academic rigour to dates, records and accounts, and place them in context, the Hadith accounts have to be treated with caution and circumspection.

ps. I notice your choice of ‘footnote’, both in Latin and English bear semiotic closeness to the imagery on the Saudi flag, and indeed the message of ‘Allah and Jihad’.
 
CatholicAlbani said:
The Story of Hussain was one thing that i like about islam ( islam being a false religion )
…

youtube.com/watch?v=Np9Lhrvuwv0
Click to expand...
Islam does not allow to mourn. Heart may feel sad but heart never should rebel against God. Every death is by permission of God. All prophets died and death is a fact and one law of God.

All Muslims feel sad about tragic death of grandson of prophet Muhammed. But we must not exceed the limits. That terrible massacre seperate Muslims(as Shia and Sunna) and unfortunately there have been struggles between Muslims because of that. Allah will punish the crimes.

Sunna is the middle course so Sunna do not exceed limits. Sunna damn the massacres but to mourn is not true.

Many prophets were tortured and got killed like Jesus(Indeed Jesus was not killed). So there is no mean to mourn and make of excess thoughts. God love His creatures (especially good people) more than humanbeing. When human exceed the laws of God then some propblems occur. We must be continent in our thoughts and behaviours. For instance, an excess love for Jesus must not make us to think that Jesus was God!
 
Mount_Carmel said:
Well, if we apply historicity and academic rigour to dates, records and accounts, and place them in context, the Hadith accounts have to be treated with caution and circumspection.

ps. I notice your choice of ‘footnote’, both in Latin and English bear semiotic closeness to the imagery on the Saudi flag, and indeed the message of ‘Allah and Jihad’.
Click to expand...
It was a cool latin phrase I found online a and it has nothing to do with the islamic shahada that’s on the saudi flag or those of jihadist groups

I just wanted to compare the death of hussain and that of our Lord
 
You cannot compare the sacrifice and death of our Lord Jesus Christ with anyone else, and that includes Mohammads grandson!
 
i wasn’t trying to make his death equal to that Christ cause of course its not but i thought it would be a good discussion
 
hasantas said:
Islam does not allow to mourn. Heart may feel sad but heart never should rebel against God. Every death is by permission of God. All prophets died and death is a fact and one law of God.

All Muslims feel sad about tragic death of grandson of prophet Muhammed. But we must not exceed the limits. That terrible massacre seperate Muslims(as Shia and Sunna) and unfortunately there have been struggles between Muslims because of that. Allah will punish the crimes.

Sunna is the middle course so Sunna do not exceed limits. Sunna damn the massacres but to mourn is not true.

Many prophets were tortured and got killed like Jesus**(Indeed Jesus was not killed)**. So there is no mean to mourn and make of excess thoughts. God love His creatures (especially good people) more than humanbeing. When human exceed the laws of God then some propblems occur. We must be continent in our thoughts and behaviours. For instance, an excess love for Jesus must not make us to think that Jesus was God!
Click to expand...
Jesus foretold of His own execution in passages written before Muhammad was born, so if He did not die on the cross, then He must be a false Prophet, then?

These passages written before Muhammad can also be seen as not in any essence changed over time.

Muhammad must have OKed them, and then changed his mind, as he seems to have often done so.
 
Mount_Carmel said:
Jesus foretold of His own execution in passages written before Muhammad was born, so if He did not die on the cross, then He must be a false Prophet, then?

These passages written before Muhammad can also be seen as not in any essence changed over time.

Muhammad must have OKed them, and then changed his mind, as he seems to have often done so.
Click to expand...
The differences between texts of Gospels indicate that writter of Gospels added their consepts. You do not accept Muhammed as a prophet. If you accept Muhammed then you can evaluate Him exactly. Do you ever think of that why do Muslims never say an evil thought about Jesus?
 
It has never been claimed that the Words of the NT are literally from God, but rather that they are ‘inspired’ by Him. That they in almost every count do not contradict each other. That rather they compliment each other. The Four Gospels are there to be compared, as are the Gnostic and other writings, which can also be academically studied for veracity, or otherwise, of claim. There was not burning of writings/historic evidence, such as happened under Uthman, and most probably other Caliphs.

I have my ideas why Jesus is spoken of in Muslim circles with high regard, but that I feel a very strong parting of the ways between what Jesus said and did, and that of Muhammad.
 
I have just joined this forum, and I am jumping in to comment on some topics dealing with Islam.

One of the problems (from a non-Muslim point of view) with Islam is that it combines religion and politics. It’s similar to the idea of the Pope and the Papal States in the 15th-16th centuries. The caliph was not just a religious leader, he was the head of the government. The two were inseparable in early Islam.

So Hussain was both a religious and a political figure. This is unlike Jesus, who was only religious (although some opponents accused him of trying to be a king of the Jews). The story of Hussain lacks the self-sacrificial aspect of Jesus and his death. Hussain didn’t march out against the Umayyads with the object of becoming a martyr–he expected others to rally to his cause, and he expected to win. He was badly mistaken! Also, Jesus was sacrificing himself for a purpose: the salvation of mankind. Hussain’s purpose was simply that he believed he, as a grandson of Ali, was a better candidate to be caliph. There is no grander purpose behind his death. So there are some superficial similarities, but the differences are more substantial.

Hasantas is correct, mourning is forbidden in Islam. That doesn’t mean people don’t mourn, however. Islam belong to the “It was meant to be” philosophy of history, and to mourn would theoretically be challenging God’s will. But of course people do mourn.

You shouldn’t underestimate the example of Jesus in the Muslim mind of the time though. There MAY have been conscious or subconscious modeling of Hussain and his suffering on Jesus and his suffering. At the very least, Hussain was (and is) considered a martyr, again, with possible conscious or sub-conscious modeling on Christian martyrs. Certainly their are similarities, although you can’t trace actual connections as far as I know.

Hadith are not generally used as historical sources by Western scholars. There is the issue of how many were genuine memories that were passed down and how many were forgeries. Both Muslim and Western scholars agree on this, but each has its own methods of deciding what is genuine.
 
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