Hymns of the Liturgy of the Hours?

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I need some help. This is for those who pray the Liturgy of the Hours. I am wondering if the hymns in the Catholic Book Publishing version of the L of H and Christian Prayers are the official hymns of the Latin edition or the hymns the publisher decided upon? I know the old breviary had “official” hymns that saints and scholars wrote. Many of those hymns have a long liturgical use and tradition. I have seen hymns by arch-heretic Martin Luther in the modern English version of the breviary. Why would Rome use hymns of heretics, even if the hymns themselves are not heretical? And why are there not more versions of the Liturgy of the Hours? Is Catholic Publishing Company the only company willing to publish it? Insight please.
 
As a Protestant, I naturally don’t have anything against singing hymns by Martin Luther. But it seems to me that if one is reciting the Office, one should use the traditional Office Hymns. Later compositions, regardless of the religion of their authors, aren’t quite the same.
 
The hymns are not universal. Notice that a number of them are of American origin, e.g. I am the Bread of Life by Sr. Toolan (sp?). The one volume edition has the hymns in the back of the book. Any suitable hymn could be sung and it’s not a question of “Rome” including or deciding upon the hymns. I presume it was ICEL (NOT ISIL!) that decided what hymns to use. AHH, the Seventies! When a new addition comes out, there will probably be a number of changes made in the hymn selection department.
 
The vernacular hymns, for the most part, are not translations of the Latin hymns. We have the same issue in French.

Translating hymns to maintain the same meter so that the traditional melody can apply, while maintaining the “poetry” and meaning of the hymn, is no simple matter especially for the sapphic hymns of the Liber Hymnarius.

That said, it should be noted that the post-Conciliar hymnal restored the traditional lyrics of many of the Latin hymns which had been pretty much adulterated by pope Urban VIII.
 
OraLabora said:
The vernacular hymns, for the most part, are not translations of the Latin hymns. We have the same issue in French.

Translating hymns to maintain the same meter so that the traditional melody can apply, while maintaining the “poetry” and meaning of the hymn, is no simple matter especially for the sapphic hymns of the Liber Hymnarius.

That said, it should be noted that the post-Conciliar hymnal restored the traditional lyrics of many of the Latin hymns which had been pretty much adulterated by pope Urban VIII.
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Right, the ancient hymns were restored in the Latin, but as you note the vernacular texts often substitute completely different hymns.

The Liturgy of the Hours, as used in English in Canada and the USA, includes many original English hymns that have no Latin counterpart whatsoever. By singing these hymns you still participate in the liturgy of the Church as the bishops have approved these hymns for the LOTH…but they are not necessarily the original Latin hymns. I wish both options were included side by side…
 
JER7177 said:
I have seen hymns by arch-heretic Martin Luther in the modern English version of the breviary. Why would Rome use hymns of heretics, even if the hymns themselves are not heretical?
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I’d like to hear more about this. Are or were there really hymns (plural) by Martin Luther in the breviary?

I wouldn’t care if there were. Not everything the man said was heretical and I ask more out of curiosity than anything else.

-Tim-
 
twf said:
Right, the ancient hymns were restored in the Latin, but as you note the vernacular texts often substitute completely different hymns.

The Liturgy of the Hours, as used in English in Canada and the USA, includes many original English hymns that have no Latin counterpart whatsoever. By singing these hymns you still participate in the liturgy of the Church as the bishops have approved these hymns for the LOTH…but they are not necessarily the original Latin hymns. I wish both options were included side by side…
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In French at least, there’s a relatively new (2008) diurnal antiphonary to chant the LOTH in Gregorian chant, known as Les Heures Grégoriennes. The French is alongside the Latin, and the Latin side has all the antiphons and hymns noted for chant. The French side includes, exclusively, approved translations of the hymns.

The problem is that only some of them retain the same meter (either iambic or sapphic), and can thus be chanted on a Gregorian melody (one has to use one of the simpler melodies, as the more complex ones don’t work with French accentuation). So most of them end up having to be recited. The ones that do work well, are those of the minor hours and Compline. Those do in the French LOTH as well, using the simplest (ordinary ferias) Gregorian melody.

I’m less familiar with the English LOTH; I do have a copy of Christian Prayer and the Mundelein Psalter which I think has English hymns set to Gregorian melodies, I can’t recall as it’s buried in my bookcase somewhere.
 
CountrySteve said:
You can find the Latin hymns in the official Liturgy of the Hours translated into English in this Hymnal

lulu.com/shop/fr-samuel-f-weber-osb/hymnal-for-the-hours-hardcover/hardcover/product-21799520.html

It has “Ecclesiastical Approbation” by the Most Reverend Salvatore Cordileone Archbishop of San Francisco. So its approved for use.
Pax.
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Ecclesiastical approbation means only a book is free from error of faith and morals. It does not make a book approved for liturgical use. That authority is a concordat cum orginali and the approval issued by the episcopal conference, not an individual bishop (“approved for use the dioceses of…; also approved by the episcopal conferences of…”)
 
The Latin Hymns are in the Liturgia Horarum, and they are pretty much completely different from the English substitute hymns that are in the English version of the Hours. This is not a big surprise since there was a need for music, a desire to keep the liturgy (mostly) in English, and a complete lack of existing English Catholic music. So they went to classic congregational hymns that most Catholics knew. The problem was, the Anglicans and Lutherans had a head start on us, so a lot of their stuff got picked by the local powers that be.

I believe the upcoming re-translation of the LOTH is going to have the translations of the Latin hymns instead of an existing congregational hymn, and people who pray it will be able to import the meter of familiar English hymns onto the translations.
 
I believe that when the 2nd english edition of the
LOTH is out, the hymns will be translated from the original Latin.
 
porthos11 said:
Ecclesiastical approbation means only a book is free from error of faith and morals. It does not make a book approved for liturgical use. That authority is a concordat cum orginali and the approval issued by the episcopal conference, not an individual bishop (“approved for use the dioceses of…; also approved by the episcopal conferences of…”)
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Well the book introduction recommends its use for all religious houses, seminaries, and priests and lay faithful for use. If It can’t be used for liturgy (like it is set up for) I do wonder what is its point then?
newliturgicalmovement.org/2014/07/celebrating-liturgy-worthily.html#.VQWg99JDuSo
Pax

Edit:
To the OP I do know for a fact that the Mundelein Psalter is approved by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and it has the Latin Hymns in English too (for Lauds and Vespers).
 
CountrySteve said:
Well the book introduction recommends its use for all religious houses, seminaries, and priests and lay faithful for use. If It can’t be used for liturgy (like it is set up for) I do wonder what is its point then?
newliturgicalmovement.org/2014/07/celebrating-liturgy-worthily.html#.VQWg99JDuSo
Pax
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Don’t know why they would make such a claim. A single bishop cannot give approval for a liturgical resource for worldwide use; only the Holy See can do that. For national use, the approval rests with the Conference, not any one bishop.

I would love to be corrected on this (because then, I can use it here in Canada too), but it would need to have some pretty strong ecclesiastical proof to the contrary of what I just said.
Edit:
To the OP I do know for a fact that the Mundelein Psalter is approved by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and it has the Latin Hymns in English too (for Lauds and Vespers).
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The Mundelein Psalter is a different story. It DOES come with all the necessary approvals, and is a completely legitimate resource for the United States. Sadly, not for Canada.
 
porthos11 said:
Don’t know why they would make such a claim. A single bishop cannot give approval for a liturgical resource for worldwide use; only the Holy See can do that. For national use, the approval rests with the Conference, not any one bishop.

I would love to be corrected on this (because then, I can use it here in Canada too), but it would need to have some pretty strong ecclesiastical proof to the contrary of what I just said.

The Mundelein Psalter is a different story. It DOES come with all the necessary approvals, and is a completely legitimate resource for the United States. Sadly, not for Canada.
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If I am wrong, do correct me but if you see the preview for the Lumen Christi Hymnal it says its approved in accord with canon 827 which led me to canon 838 on the Vatican website which says:

. The direction of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church which resides in the Apostolic See and, according to the norm of law, the diocesan bishop.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P2S.HTM#4.0.0.0.0.0.838

Pax
 
CountrySteve said:
If I am wrong, do correct me but if you see the preview for the Lumen Christi Hymnal it says its approved in accord with canon 827 which led me to canon 838 on the Vatican website which says:

. The direction of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church which resides in the Apostolic See and, according to the norm of law, the diocesan bishop.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P2S.HTM#4.0.0.0.0.0.838

Pax
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The key phrases are “according to the norm of law”. A bishop’s authority extends only to his own diocese and in liturgical matters, only where allowed by law.

Can. 838 is explicit (sec. 2 and 3): the Conference prepares vernacular translations and the Holy See reviews them.

If a book did not receive this approval, then it’s no good for liturgical use.

Again, I wish I were wrong, because I badly want to use books like the Mundelein Psalter or these other hymnals. But I don’t believe I’m wrong. The only other book I can licitly use is the Liber Hymnarius, in Latin.
 
How completely discouraging. So many inferiior resources are approved for use but excellent resources like the Mundelein Psalter (apart from the ICEL texts which are approved), the Lumen Christi Hymnal and the Hymnal For the Hours are not approved. And there is probably insufficient will to see that they get approved. In fact, the attempt to get them approved would likely be met by pretty strong resistance from many liturgical “experts”.
 
porthos11 said:
The only other book I can licitly use is the Liber Hymnarius, in Latin.
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You can also use Antiphonale Romanum II in Latin to pray Vespers on Sundays, feasts and solemnities throughout the year, in Latin Gregorian chant. It is official, after Liber Hymnarius it is the second volume of the upcoming Roman Antiphonary. Lauds for Sundays, feasts and solemnities is apparently next in the works though the project is delayed because the monk working on it left the monastery. However I heard through the Benedictine/Solesmes grapevine that the project has resumed under someone else.
 
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