Hymns to Mary inappropriate?

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Rosalinda

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I found this disturbing “pastoral note” at the Canadian Catholic Conference bishops site.
Many Roman Catholics observe May and October as a “Marian month,” with special devotions in honour of Mary, the mother of God. However, Sunday is the Day of the Lord, a special day of the resurrection focused first of all on the paschal mystery, and that focus always takes priority in any celebration of a Sunday liturgy (Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, no. 106). Therefore, those who prepare the music for Sundays in their parish must keep in mind that no element of the Lord’s day celebration may be replaced by any devotional practices, such as Marian hymns during the month of May or October**. Hymns to Mary do not have a place in the Sunday liturgy (unless a Marian feast replaces a Sunday in Ordinary Time as happens on August 15). One or two such hymns may be used at a Eucharist during the week when a feast of Mary is celebrated, but even then it is inappropriate to sing Marian songs at communion time. Marian hymns do have a place in Marian devotions that are scheduled at a special time separate from any celebration of the Eucharist, such as the public recitation of the rosary including singing and Scripture readings.
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cccb.ca/site/Files/CBW_III_Music_suggestions_YrC.html

These so-called suggestions have been rigorously implemented in my diocese. For years I have bemoaned the complete neglect of Mary, especially during the months of May and October, wondering why no Marian hymns have been selected for the faithful to sing.

Do you agree with the statement by the CCCB? Is Christ denied glory whenever a simple hymn to His Mother is sung during the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy?
 
Oh my. Send these bishops a copy of De Montfort’s “True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin” and highlight this:

Article one
  1. I find seven kinds of false devotees and false devotions to Our Lady, namely: 1. the critical devotees; 2. the scrupulous devotees; 3. the external devotees; 4. the presumptuous devotees; 5. the inconstant devotees; 6. the hypocritical devotees; 7: the interested devotees.
  2. Critical devotees.
  3. The critical devotees are, for the most part, proud scholars, rash and self sufficient spirits, who have at heart some devotion to the holy Virgin, but who criticize nearly all the practices of devotion which simple people pay simply and holily to their good Mother, because these practices do not fall in with their own humor and fancy. They call in doubt all the miracles and pious stories recorded by authors worthy of faith, or drawn from the chronicles of religious orders; narratives which testify to us the mercies and the power of the most holy Virgin. They cannot see, without uneasiness, simple and humble people on their knees before an altar or an image of Our Lady, in order to pray to God, and they even accuse them of idolatry, as if they adored the wood or the stone. They say that, for their part, they are not fond of these external devotions, and that they are not so credulous as to believe so many tales and stories that are told about Our Lady. WHen they are told how admirably the Father of the Church praised the Blessed Virgin, they either reply that the Fathers spoke as professional orators, with exaggeration, or they misinterpret their words. These kinds of false devotees and of proud and worldly people are greatly to be feared. They do an infinite wrong to devotion to Our Lady; and they are but too successful in alienating people from it, under the pretext of 'destroying its abuses."
II Scrupulous devotees
94. The scrupulous devotees are those who fear to dishonor the Son by honoring the Mother, to abase the one in elevating the other. They cannot BEAR that we should attribute to Our Lady the most just praise which the holy Fathers have given her. It is all they can do to endure that there should be more people before the altar of the Virgin than before the Blessed Sacrament* (note here that in St. Louis’ time the Blessed Sacrament was not widely available however as it is today) *–as if the one were contrary to the other, as if those who prayed to our Blessed Lady did not pray to Jesus Christ through her. They are unwilling that we should speak so often of Our Lady and address her so frequently.
Here are some of their favorite sayings: “Why so many rosaries, so many confraternities, and so many external devotions to the Blessed Virgin. There is much ignorance in this. It makes a mummery of our religion. Speak to us of those who are devout to Jesus Christ.” (Yet these people, supposedly so on fire for Christ, do not offer HIM any external devotion; do not even raise their hats or bow their heads when speaking His name!) or “We must have recourse to Jesus Christ; He is our only Mediator. We must preach Jesus Christ; this is solid devotion.” Now what they say is TRUE in a CERTAIN SENSE, but in the APPLICATION of it, namely, to hinder devotion to the Blessed Mother, it is very dangerous and it is, under pretext of a great good, a subtle snare of the evil one.

For the more we honor the Blessed Virgin, the more we honor Christ; because we honor Mary only that we may the more perfectly honor Jesus, since we go to her only as the way by which we are to find the end we are seeking, which is Jesus.
 
Hi,

To be honest, I personally agree with the Bishops. The Lord’s day is all about the Lord, and I am sure that even Mary would agree with them.
 
I know a person who directed the music at a Mass which Cardinal Arinze presided in the U.S., and they did a Marian hymn at communion. Cardinal Arinze gently reminded this person afterwards that a Marian hymn at that point in the Mass was not proper.
 
While the ‘letter of the law’ may be supportive, what remains is what I noted from True Devotion.

It may indeed be the practice of contemporary liturgists to insist on this strict prohibition except as outlined above.

HOWEVER. . .

What is unfortunately happening in many places is that, SUPPOSEDLY with the intent to put "the Lord’ (back) in the Lord’s day, anything that remotely hints at not being utterly and completely “God alone” is jettisoned.

Back in the day, we had --outside the Mass – all SORTS of devotions. May crownings. Recitation of the Rosary in October either BEFORE or AFTER Mass. Processions for St. Anthony in June, St. Francis, St. Therese and the Guardian angels in October; various plays, pageants, etc. Yes, Mass took ‘pride of place’. . .yet we did not think (silly us) that our remembrances of the Saints were somehow ‘diminishing the Lord’.

Back to 1970s and suddenly unless it was all ‘God’ (as in “Godspell”, or JC Superstar etc.) --it was GONE. Maybe a few people could keep one or two special events if the parish were big enough, or ‘ethnic’ enough. . .but ask the average Catholic to look back in the 1970s-1990s for his or her parish’s May crownings or feasts and festivals, and you’ll get blank stares. A Lady altar at home? Family rosary? Popular devotions were so lacking in JESUS because they focused on Mary, or a saint. Heaven forfend!!

It is truly in my opinion a mark of the ‘scrupulous’ that Mary is considered to be a DISTRACTION or in OPPOSITION to Christ. It is a scandal and a shame to see people act as though honoring Mary took ‘away’ some FINITE AMOUNT OF DEVOTION FROM JESUS.

And I will fight to restore to her not ‘undue’ devotion but her MERITED devotion, which so many would try to take from her.
 
VociMike said:
I know a person who directed the music at a Mass which Cardinal Arinze presided in the U.S., and they did a Marian hymn at communion. Cardinal Arinze gently reminded this person afterwards that a Marian hymn at that point in the Mass was not proper.
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Of course, on Marian feasts, the proper communion antiphon is sometimes taken from a Marian hymn!
 
drforjc said:
Of course, on Marian feasts, the proper communion antiphon is sometimes taken from a Marian hymn!
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Yes, quite right. The Cardinal was referring just to the particular Mass in question, which was not a Marian feast day.
 
Note that the Cardinal did not criticize the use of a Marian hymn in the mass, but only its use at Communion time.

For Marian feasts I prefer to use the Magnificat for a Communion hymn. It focusses on the Incarnation of Jesus, but includes reference to Mary.
 
As a kid I remember singing Marian hymns on occasion…but typically as the recessional, after Sunday Mass had officially ended. “O Sanctissima”, “Salve Regina” and others. It strikes me that this is a healthy compromise at any time of the year. It is a mystery to me why these have disappeared and have been replaced by sappy new-age music. But don’t get me started…
 
All the more reason to stick only with the propers in the Missal or Gradual for any and all Masses.

In any case, we reserve all Marian hymns for the recessional. Definitely not Communion.
 
Rosalinda said:
I found this disturbing “pastoral note” at the Canadian Catholic Conference bishops site.

Do you agree with the statement by the CCCB? Is Christ denied glory whenever a simple hymn to His Mother is sung during the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy?
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I rarely agree with anything the Canadian bishops say. These are the same ones who voted to ignore Humanae Vitae and whose publishing company endorses Hans Kung :rolleyes:
 
VociMike said:
Yes, quite right. The Cardinal was referring just to the particular Mass in question, which was not a Marian feast day.
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But does not the fact that the Church prescribes what is essentially a Marian hymn for Communion on Marian feast days imply that it is not wrong in principle ?

If it were truly liturgically wrong to sing a Marian hymn at communion, then even on Marian feast days one would think that a different antiphon would have been prescribed.
 
ABiii said:
Hi,

To be honest, I personally agree with the Bishops. The Lord’s day is all about the Lord, and I am sure that even Mary would agree with them.
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Devotion to Mary is devotion to Jesus. She’s who she is because of Jesus. True devotion to her emphasizes your devotion to Jesus- it does not detract from it. On Marian feast days (including ones whose liturgies are superceded by other liturgies) or during May or Octoboer, Marian hymns are totally appropriate (probably mostly for a closing hymn, unless it is a Marian feast day).

I disagree with the Canadian bishops on this one.
 
drforjc said:
But does not the fact that the Church prescribes what is essentially a Marian hymn for Communion on Marian feast days imply that it is not wrong in principle ?

If it were truly liturgically wrong to sing a Marian hymn at communion, then even on Marian feast days one would think that a different antiphon would have been prescribed.
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You are correct.

When a communion antiphon states something marian, a Marian hymn that says essentially the same thing is appropriate.

At a Sunday mass that is not a celebration of a Marian feast and whose Communion antiphon does not say anything of Mary, it is not appropriate to simply sing a Marian hymn for devotional purposes. The mass is not devotion.
 
m134e5 said:
Devotion to Mary is devotion to Jesus. She’s who she is because of Jesus. True devotion to her emphasizes your devotion to Jesus- it does not detract from it. On Marian feast days (including ones whose liturgies are superceded by other liturgies) or during May or Octoboer, Marian hymns are totally appropriate (probably mostly for a closing hymn, unless it is a Marian feast day).

I disagree with the Canadian bishops on this one.
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AVE MARIA AMEN! Ad Jesum Per Mariam (To Jesus through Mary)
 
As an organist, I believe that, generally, Marian hymns should not be sung as entrance hymns - we are welcoming Christ with our entrance hymn and I believe full focus should be on that…Of course I do believe that many graces are received through the intercession of Mary, but there are other more appropriate times to celebrate this than at the entrance procession.

I would also tend to be quite strict on not having Marian hymns at communion time - again for the reason that the focus should be on the Body of Christ which people are about to receive - there is no shortage of wonderful settings of hymns such as Ave Verum and all the different Communion Antiphons…

If one feels that a Marian Hymn should be sung,I think the most appropriate time is as a recessional hymn - in many churches it is traditional to end Mass with ‘Salve Regina’ or some such hymn.
 
Do you know the difference between a liturgist and a terrorist?

You can at least negotiate with a liturgist.

I fear that all too often bishops farm out decisions like this to “experts” for opinions and that is why we move further and further from our roots. I can not imagine not allowing Marian hymns as part of worship, except for where specific use hymns are needed, like communion. Fortunately, I have a say in our hymns usage and will often include a Marian hymn in any place except communion. (Heck, I’m even a Baptist convert)

Ave Maria!
 
ABiii said:
To be honest, I personally agree with the Bishops. The Lord’s day is all about the Lord, and I am sure that even Mary would agree with them.
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And the Blessed Virgin is also “all about the Lord”. Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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