Hyphenated Religious Beliefs

[meltzerboy]

This topic was inspired by the current thread about Unitarianism. I know Jews who are also Unitarians, as well as those who are Quakers, Christian Scientists, practitioners of Religious Science (also called Science of the Mind), Buddhists, Messianic Jews, Nazarene Jews, and even atheists. These include not only those Jews who regard themselves as Jewish only ethnically and culturally, but in addition people who have a Jewish religious identity. Likewise, I’m aware of Christians (Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants), who also practice Buddhism, Hinduism, or Unitarianism. My question is what do you make of this apparent dual religious identity? Does it make sense to you or do you see a conflict? Do you take people who identify themselves as such at their word, or do you think this is an indication of confusion or an inability to commit to one religious belief?

 

[Morwenna]

To answer the last question first, I do think that most of these folks are probably sincere in their beliefs, although as you mentioned, I also think there are underlying conflicts (whether or not these are acknowledged).

Having been somewhat in this boat for the greater part of my adult life, I see it a logical outgrowth of our self-centered culture: using various religions as a smörgåsbord from which one may choose the specific practices or insights that “feel right”, while ignoring those we don’t like so much.

Also, I think this mishmash of beliefs is very appealing to the “seeker” mentality: ever-seeking, the-journey-not-the-destination, around-the-next-corner, etc. The danger here is that “seeking” can become a form of running away, or “religious Peter Pan-ism”, if you will.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

This topic was inspired by the current thread about Unitarianism. I know Jews who are also Unitarians, as well as those who are Quakers, Christian Scientists, practitioners of Religious Science (also called Science of the Mind), Buddhists, Messianic Jews, Nazarene Jews, and even atheists. These include not only those Jews who regard themselves as Jewish only ethnically and culturally, but in addition people who have a Jewish religious identity. Likewise, I’m aware of Christians (Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants), who also practice Buddhism, Hinduism, or Unitarianism. My question is what do you make of this apparent dual religious identity? Does it make sense to you or do you see a conflict? Do you take people who identify themselves as such at their word, or do you think this is an indication of confusion or an inability to commit to one religious belief?

I see nothing but conflict in this. These religion have wildly-varying belief structures and moral codes, as well as different assertions as to the nature of reality / our purpose in life and other big questions. To claim beliefs in multiple religions, especially ones which are contradictory by nature (such as Christianity and Buddhism) is essentially the same thing as claiming that there is no absolute Truth; which would mean that all religion is pointless, thereby making your adherence to one or more of them pointless as well. In my opinion, people who do this sort of thing are relativists, and are frankly missing the entire point of religious belief.

 

[Boulder257]

Personally I think conflict exists in each of these circumstances. I think, that in order for this to take place, the person is either:

1. Unaware that a conflict is present.
2. Aware that a conflict is present, but willing to ignore said conflict.

Many times I hear people tell me that by seeing conflict we limit the power of God and that what we see as conflict is really just our lack of understanding or ability to understand.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

Eastern Pagan religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism seem to me, of their nature, more amenable to “mix and match” than, say, the great Monotheistic religions. (Within the latter category, there is the common expression “Judeo-Christian,” but this usually refers to shared culture and heritage rather than to a form of syncretism.)

From a Catholic point of view, it makes little difference in one sense, whether one mixes and matches faiths that are already in error (to varying degrees). That said, eclecticism can indicate a *lack *of commitment to truth (by not committing to one system), or it can indicate a *strong *commitment to truth (by admitting one system’s lack). Since the Catholic faith lacks nothing (in terms of attaining our final end), to add to it shows fundamental ignorance of what it is. But without the Catholic faith, it is not surprising if people feel the need to draw from multiple sources to find more.

 

[Cojuanco]

Well, as for being a Jew and a Catholic, it’s possible that an ethnic Jew converted to Catholicism, no? Though the formal term is Hebrew Catholic. As for examples, pretty much all of the earliest bishops, and Peter, naturally.

But If someone claimed to be practicing Judaism and Catholicism at the same time, I would think him confused at best, syncretistic at worst.

 

[Indifferently]

The Lord our God is ONE LORD.

 

[donna369]

such people seem to be hedging their bets. they are unsure of what to do. or maybe its just convenient to take a piece you like from here and another from there. like a buffet. i like buffets because i don’t have to make a real choice. i no longer eat at the buffet because i tend to take too much!
i like to say this “God is not BurgerKing, you can’t have it your way”

 

[SteveVH]

It stems from the belief that religion is a giant buffet and we can pick and choose what we want to put on our plate according to our individual tastes. If I want to live with someone outside of the bonds of marriage then I will find a belief that supports my decision. It completely disregards the concept of objective truth in favor of relativism.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

In my time I’ve known a “Wiccan Catholic” (she was a cantor at a parish I attended) and someone who mixed Buddhism with Catholicism, as well as countless “liberal Catholics” who mix parts of Catholicism with personalized combinations of Protestant and fashionable secular errors.

The word for such people is “pagans.” From a pagan perspective, it would be absurd and presumptuous for any one religion to claim to have a monopoly on truth. Only the most provincial pagan would believe firmly in his or her native tradition to the complete exclusion of all others. Upon encountering other religions or mythologies one must, to avoid this narrow-mindedness, accept them also in one way or another. You could graft those exotic beliefs onto yours, or simply regard them as alternate but equally valid traditions, possibly accepting the old Sufi analogy of the blind men and the elephant. This naturally leads to a more and more amorphous belief system, and this is part of what weakened ancient Greco-Roman paganism into irrelevance.

Unfortunately there have been Christian pagans from almost the beginning of Christian history, and of course we all know from the Bible that there were Israelite/Jewish pagans before this. These are people who fail to recognize in Judaism or Christianity a unique revealed religion. Instead they approach one or the other as though it were just another natural religion, feeling free to pick and choose among its doctrines and essential rituals and to add alien elements to it as they see fit.

 

[Boulder257]

I notice so far that all of the responses are from single denomination faiths. I hope I am not being presumptuous, but I welcome and even encourage those who hold this type of view to share with us how you make the two compatible. OP please tell me if somehow I have misinterpreted your thread and this was not your intent.

 

[VivienneJ]

My question is what do you make of this apparent dual religious identity? Does it make sense to you or do you see a conflict? Do you take people who identify themselves as such at their word, or do you think this is an indication of confusion or an inability to commit to one religious belief?

I think there are two parts to this. One is certainly an indication of an inability to make up one’s mind, therefore you maintain a ‘dual religious identity’. Many of these do not make much sense at all and there must be some sort of conflict.

But there is also the fact that some people are converts from a religious system that was also a big part of their cultural identity and they find it difficult to give up both their former religion and all the cultural aspects that were part of it. As Cojuanco says, I can certainly understand this situation.

Well, as for being a Jew and a Catholic, it’s possible that an ethnic Jew converted to Catholicism, no? Though the formal term is Hebrew Catholic. As for examples, pretty much all of the earliest bishops, and Peter, naturally.

But If someone claimed to be practicing Judaism and Catholicism at the same time, I would think him confused at best, syncretistic at worst.

An Anglican priest I knew spoke of the difficulty some of his formerly Hindu parishioners had giving up practises that were essentially Hindu, but which they saw as being part of their way of life rather than as part of their former religion. Although they did not in any way identify as still being Hindu.

 

[steido01]

My question is what do you make of this apparent dual religious identity? Does it make sense to you or do you see a conflict?

The concept of a “dual religious identity,” while *perhaps *understandable from the viewpoint of some eastern religions/movements is entirely incompatible with Christianity.

Christ is rather clear in Mark 12:30, when he states the greatest commandment; “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” If you’re sharing that space with another god, you’re not loving God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind.

If that’s not clear enough, His words from Matthew 6:24 are rather plain. “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.” I think its fair to conclude that the spirit of the parable remains true when we replace “money” with any other vice or gods.

And if that still is not clear enough, we can look at the First Commandment: You shall have no other gods. :nunchuk:

Now, as other posters have noted, there is something to be said of converts who hold to cultural remnants of their former religions, or immigrants who celebrate the secular holidays of their homelands. But this should not cause confusion or a conflation between Christianity and [whatever]. If the faith these people profess is Christian, they are Christian. Plain and simple.

Do you take people who identify themselves as such at their word, or do you think this is an indication of confusion or an inability to commit to one religious belief?

Cojuanco said it best:

Cojuanco:

I would think him confused at best, syncretistic at worst.

 

[meltzerboy]

such people seem to be hedging their bets. they are unsure of what to do. or maybe its just convenient to take a piece you like from here and another from there. like a buffet. i like buffets because i don’t have to make a real choice. i no longer eat at the buffet because i tend to take too much!
i like to say this “God is not BurgerKing, you can’t have it your way”

LOL Good one, donna.

 

[meltzerboy]

To answer the last question first, I do think that most of these folks are probably sincere in their beliefs, although as you mentioned, I also think there are underlying conflicts (whether or not these are acknowledged).

Having been somewhat in this boat for the greater part of my adult life, I see it a logical outgrowth of our self-centered culture: using various religions as a smörgåsbord from which one may choose the specific practices or insights that “feel right”, while ignoring those we don’t like so much.

Also, I think this mishmash of beliefs is very appealing to the “seeker” mentality: ever-seeking, the-journey-not-the-destination, around-the-next-corner, etc. The danger here is that “seeking” can become a form of running away, or “religious Peter Pan-ism”, if you will.

Interesting analysis, Morwenna, and I tend to agree with you.

 

[Publisher]

I think it has more to do with recognizing the beauty that exists in other faith traditions than in any self centeredness on the part of the adherent . I have called myself a “Quaker-Episcopalian-Universalist_Pagan” mostly in jest but also with a sense of the different traditions proclaim “Truth”…it seems to me that only of you believe your spoken language and religious beliefs articulated contains all Truth and no other expression of one’s “man made religions”…and without exception they are ALL manmade regardless of ones very human claims about the Eternal and Infinite…then one can understand how the Divine Presence can be spoken of in various ways

 

[SteveVH]

I think it has more to do with recognizing the beauty that exists in other faith traditions than in any self centeredness on the part of the adherent . I have called myself a “Quaker-Episcopalian-Universalist_Pagan” mostly in jest but also with a sense of the different traditions proclaim “Truth”…it seems to me that only of you believe your spoken language and religious beliefs articulated contains all Truth and no other expression of one’s “man made religions”…and without exception they are ALL manmade regardless of ones very human claims about the Eternal and Infinite…then one can understand how the Divine Presence can be spoken of in various ways

Would you eat a cookie that was made from 98% good stuff and 2% dog poop?

 

[Kelfa28]

I’ve seen this so much over the course of my life that it seriously bothers me.

However, in my experience with “hyphenated” religious beliefs…my family and friends, literally never knew they were doing anything wrong.

Most of what I’ve seen comes from my mother and MIL and they are both in the same boat in regards to what they “hyphenate.”

My mother was born and raised Catholic. She has a received all of the sacraments…including the Sacrament of Marriage and to this day (30 years later with zero desire to start taking her faith seriously again) it’s still Sacramental. Yet, she hasn’t just strolled but sprinted down the path of Paganism. She teaches Nia (a form of Yoga/martial arts), practices Yoga on a regular basis, has studied Reiki, visits with psychics and wanted to start getting into Tarot cards (I expressed my serious concern with that one and she respected it and somewhat understood why).

Yet…she she’ll do really weird things…she respected my concerns when I told her she really shouldn’t be receiving the Eucharist on the rare occasions she goes to Mass (usually when I invite her to a Mass or she expresses an interest) but then went ahead and went to confession randomly one day in order to receive the Eucharist.
I couldn’t stop her, of course, and after she received she went right back to never attending Mass and delving head on into those pagan beliefs she loves so much.

My MIL has always identified herself as a Christian. She goes to a Evangelical Church and was fairly serious about her faith when my husband was a child. Then she decided to start participating in much of the same activities my mother was involved in. Yet, she still identified herself as a Christian.

My husband brought up some good points with her and got her to actually start thinking. She is now back in Church and going to weekly bible studies again.

I see it in my family and I see it as plain ignorance and flat out ignoring what the Church actually teaches.

No one said Christianity was going to be easy…there was a reason Christ told us to pick up our Crosses and follow Him.

 

[504Katrin]

“Do you take people who identify themselves as such at their word, or do you think this is an indication of confusion or an inability to commit to one religious belief?”

Yes, I take them by their word. We do not stand still but every day we either develop to the better or to the worse. The only one who knows if we’re doing the right thing is G0d as He’s the one designing everything. So if it’s an indication of confusion this confusion might be good and necessary for their further development. Maybe someone has a hyphenated religion because they’re passing through something in their lives and G0d is guiding them back gently into their intended direction, or maybe they are on the right path already and they can serve G0d to their best of their ability that way and at that particular time of their lives.
I’m a person that has an opinion on everything but when it comes to people and their relationships with G0d – I stay out of it.

 

[meltzerboy]

“Do you take people who identify themselves as such at their word, or do you think this is an indication of confusion or an inability to commit to one religious belief?”

Yes, I take them by their word. We do not stand still but every day we either develop to the better or to the worse. The only one who knows if we’re doing the right thing is G0d as He’s the one designing everything. So if it’s an indication of confusion this confusion might be good and necessary for their further development. Maybe someone has a hyphenated religion because they’re passing through something in their lives and G0d is guiding them back gently into their intended direction, or maybe they are on the right path already and they can serve G0d to their best of their ability that way and at that particular time of their lives.
I’m a person that has an opinion on everything but when it comes to people and their relationships with G0d – I stay out of it.

Valid points, Katrin, and I agree.