Hypocrisy and Right vs. Left Wing

[goofyjim]

Isn’t it funny how people who pay no or low taxes, consider themselves holier than the people who work and earn the money? How they look down on those who pull the load, and never accept responsibility to pull their share?

And isn’t it funny how those who have had the good fortune to be able to work consider themselves holier than thou. It goes both ways Vern.

 

[estesbob]

You’re sounding like a broken record. The tax code is fair for those who are struggling to get by on lower incomes. I really wish you would stop your mantra because you make it sound like that 48% is doing something illegal or immoral. When they make enough beyond the builtin deductions and credits they will pay taxes. Until then stop whining.

Nobody said it was illegal-I just pointed how absurd it is when poeple claim the rich dont pay their fair share when 48% pay no federal income taxes at all.Why do I get the feeling you are part of the 48%?

 

[goofyjim]

Nobody said it was illegal-I just pointed how absurd it is when poeple claim the rich dont pay their fair share when 48% pay no federal income taxes at all.Why do I get the feeling you are part of the 48%?

I have to be. I am disabled and only able to work parttime. I never claimed that the rich don’t pay theirfair share BTW. I just don’t believe in forcing people who can barely pay their other bills to cough up taxes to the government.

 

[Darnok]

As a corollary, when I do cite Church documents, the response is either silence (crickets chirping) or “so what?”

Oddly enough that was the response I got (on a different board) one time in debating the war in Iraq (I’m against it). A strong conservative defending the war said the Catechism states clear points for determining if going to war is legit. My response was to post the paragraph in its entirety and say “let’s assess the war point by point.” I got crickets chirping. It sometimes seems like conservatives are trusting (even hoping) that liberals won’t respond with documents.
I more consider myself a moderate. I have some experience in causes which liberals espouse (I support the labor union movement, etc.). I, however, have a strong belief in St. Paul’s teaching about having a “learned response.”

What I feel is a false dichotomy is saying everyone is either a conservative or liberal. I also believe one of the big problems (on both sides) is for conservatives to talk with conservatives why they’re correct and liberals to talk with liberals where they’re correct. There seems to be little communication across the board with charity.

Please note I’m not referring to anyone on this board. I actually haven’t debated enough here to get a full sense. This sense is more from what I have seen of sources like Fox News.

 

[pnewton]

Nice try.

That’s not what he said. He said that, as a percentage of income, the poor pay the highest percentage of their income in taxes.

He said both. The quote I referred to was “Not only are the poorest working Americans the most highly taxed…”

There was no support for either statement. Besides, what’s the point. Just look at your own response. Nice try? Not exactly a response conducive to evoking discussion.

 

[rlg94086]

Those who disagree with him can’t respond, so they don’t bother. They’ve had their clocks cleaned too thoroughly by him.

I have had a couple of discussions with you and SoCalRC, where you didn’t respond to a post…should I assume that you “can’t respond” so didn’t “bother?” Get over yourself. Luckily, SoCalRC is a little more humble and wouldn’t make such a statement.

 

[rlg94086]

Actually, if we were to apply some of your past arguments, we would have to go further and say that my position is also an indication of my ‘higher value’ to society, so it is appropriate for society to gear itself towards my benefit (which it actually now does, as a percentage of income my taxation lower than most Americans).

Actually, if you were able to follow previous arguments, you would understand that conservatives believe you are called to a larger amount of charity - taxes are an afterthought from a religious perspective. Please tell me where you find Jesus instructing us to take care of the poor by lobbying Caeser to increase taxes and create social programs.

From an economic perspective, you are going to pay higher taxes than the poor regardless of the tax percentage, but your investment dollars are of much more value to society.

 

[ribozyme]

Actually, if you were able to follow previous arguments, you would understand that conservatives believe you are called to a larger amount of charity - taxes are an afterthought from a religious perspective. Please tell me where you find Jesus instructing us to take care of the poor by lobbying Caeser to increase taxes and create social programs.

From an economic perspective, you are going to pay higher taxes than the poor regardless of the tax percentage, but your investment dollars are of much more value to society.

But people do not give most of their money to charity . I do not expect the majority of the wealthy to give away their money. Of course, there are exceptions such as George Soros and Bill Gates.

Charity from people such as myself does not excite me as my own resources are orders of magnitudes too small. Charity does not make me feel any better; I just feel I do not have the resources to make a noticeable difference. Charity is an action that I fear will disappoint me. I just wish I had the resources of George Soros to make a tremendous difference alleviating suffering so I would not be faced with such insurmountable diffidence.

 

[rlg94086]

But people do not give most of their money to charity. I do not expect the the majority of the wealthy to give away their money. Of course, there are exceptions such as George Soros and Bill Gates.

We are called as Catholics/Christians to give charitably…I don’t particularly care about your personal opinion about what other people should give. Worry about your own giving.

 

[BamaRider]

SpiritMeadow sez-

Aw nuts, you took all my arguments! Seriously, do you three just read the book on being stereotypes or what? It’s like reading the textbook definition of the *anti-intellectual southern. *Boy the Captains of Industry did that snow job so well, you are still, low more than 100 years later touting the same phrases they made up to keep you in place, Up by the bootstraps, rugged individualism, protestant work ethic. and a host of others. I know that you honestly believe it as well. Such is the poor state of most of our educational systems in the country. You have been duped gentlemen by the very people you so ardently defend. They laugh at how you do their propaganda work for them.

Awwwwwww now do you have preconceptions that southerners are anti-intellectual?? LOL. Now I’ve spent a fair amount of time in Iowa m’am, probably seen more of the state then 96% of the folks living there (you can go to my website to read about my travels there) and now I find out all those ladies that thought my accent and I were cute, were really thinking I’m anti intellectual? How disconcerting. LOL.

Vern is from Arkansas m’am please don’t throw me in the mix with those folks. LOL Now that D. McFadden and Nutt are gone, they’re gonna be just another football team. He doesn’t like that. I’m from Alabama, but I know for a fact, almost every one in Little Rock is jealous of us.

But back to the subject at hand. All those virtues you rail against, have served me well, and I passed them on to my son, who has a chance to go the next level. Things like individualism, up by the bootstraps etc. I’m by no means rich (how does a retired firefighter get that way?) but I do ok, but so what? But some of y’all think I got it made?? LOL.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I have had a couple of discussions with you and SoCalRC, where you didn’t respond to a post…should I assume that you “can’t respond” so didn’t “bother?” Get over yourself. Luckily, SoCalRC is a little more humble and wouldn’t make such a statement.

When I stop responding is usually (note that qualifier word) when I realize that there’s no use in continuing as minds won’t change and I just drop it. That’s why I don’t even bother to respond to certain posters…I’d have better luck finding the other side of a mobeous strip.

And I’ll give you the humility thing. It’s something I definitely need to work on.

 

[geraldffff]

But people do not give most of their money to charity . I do not expect the majority of the wealthy to give away their money. Of course, there are exceptions such as George Soros and Bill Gates.

Charity from people such as myself does not excite me as my own resources are orders of magnitudes too small. Charity does not make me feel any better; I just feel I do not have the resources to make a noticeable difference. Charity is an action that I fear will disappoint me. I just wish I had the resources of George Soros to make a tremendous difference alleviating suffering so I would not be faced with such insurmountable diffidence.

Ah but is Soro’s and Gates’s giving charitable in the normal sense of the word?
I think it’s kinda painfully to be yanked out of the womb and have your brains torn out. .
many prolifers may already know, some of America’s richest men are ardent supporters of Planned Parenthood and its allies. George Soros, worth a measly $4 billion, established the Program on Reproductive Health and Rights, which has given millions to proabort causes. Ellen Chesler, author of Woman of Valor: Margaret Sanger and the Birth Control Movement in America, is director of the Soros*backed program. Bill Gates, valued at $76 billion, has given $57 million to the United Nations Population Fund; almost $14 million to International Planned Parenthood; $4 million to the Population Council and millions more to other related causes.lifeissues.net/writers/tay/tay_04robthecrad.html
Seems like left wing hypocrisy and not the charity, Jesus was fostering, to me.

 

[rlg94086]

When I stop responding is usually (note that qualifier word) when I realize that there’s no use in continuing as minds won’t change and I just drop it. That’s why I don’t even bother to respond to certain posters…I’d have better luck finding the other side of a mobeous strip.

And I’ll give you the humility thing. It’s something I definitely need to work on.

Right! But you assume that conservatives stop responding because they have no argument. Why do you assume that others aren’t as incredibly brilliant as you are and don’t know when to “just drop it?”

 

[estesbob]

We are called as Catholics/Christians to give charitably…I don’t particularly care about your personal opinion about what other people should give. Worry about your own giving.

Although liberal families’ incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).

• Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.
• Residents of the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 gave smaller percentages of their incomes to charity than did residents of states that voted for George Bush.
• Bush carried 24 of the 25 states where charitable giving was above average.
• In the 10 reddest states, in which Bush got more than 60 percent majorities, the average percentage of personal income donated to charity was 3.5. Residents of the bluest states, which gave Bush less than 40 percent, donated just 1.9 percent.

People who reject the idea that “government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality” give an average of four times more than people who accept that proposition.

---

These facts come from :

Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism." by Arthur C. Brooks

 

[vern_humphrey]

Right! But you assume that conservatives stop responding because they have no argument. Why do you assume that others aren’t as incredibly brilliant as you are and don’t know when to “just drop it?”

You realize you’re dealing with a guy who admits he “hates Republicans” and talks about vomiting all over the voting machine because of his extreme hatred?

 

[estesbob]

You realize you’re dealing with a guy who admits he “hates Republicans” and talks about vomiting all over the voting machine because of his extreme hatred?

And is praising a guy who believes the republcians force Guam women onto slavery and abortion.

 

[rlg94086]

Charity from people such as myself does not excite me as my own resources are orders of magnitudes too small. Charity does not make me feel any better; I just feel I do not have the resources to make a noticeable difference. Charity is an action that I fear will disappoint me.** I just wish I had the resources of George Soros to make a tremendous difference alleviating suffering so I would not be faced with such insurmountable diffidence**.

What diffidence does it make? …sorry, couldn’t help myself.

Sitting around and wishing you had resources does nobody any good - you or the poor. I’m not clear what you mean by “insurmountable diffidence.” Are you saying that your self-confidence is so low, that you don’t think you can have a successful career and make money? Or, are you saying you have a lack of confidence in your ability to contribute? If it is the former, get some career counselling. I’m sure you have the abilities to do well. If it is the latter, get some career counselling, do well, then give. In the meantime, give what you can and get off your butt and lend a hand.

 

[estesbob]

But people do not give most of their money to charity . I do not expect the majority of the wealthy to give away their money. Of course, there are exceptions such as George Soros and Bill Gates.

Charity from people such as myself does not excite me as my own resources are orders of magnitudes too small. Charity does not make me feel any better; I just feel I do not have the resources to make a noticeable difference. Charity is an action that I fear will disappoint me. I just wish I had the resources of George Soros to make a tremendous difference alleviating suffering so I would not be faced with such insurmountable diffidence.

Gates and Soros have not given away their entire fortunes. In fact both of them retain more than enough money to live the lifestyle they have grown accustomed to. In addtion both of them spend vast anounts money facilitating the slaughetr of balck, brown and yellow babies.

You seem to eqaute compassion with how much money you can throw at the poor,. And isnt it interesting that your definition of charity excludes you from having any responsibility to use your own time or money. Better to ccriticize those who do give for not giving enough. What a wonederful world you live in.

 

[Ridgerunner]

SpiritMeadow sez-

Awwwwwww now do you have preconceptions that southerners are anti-intellectual??

"We in the South may not always be right, but, by God, we ain’t never wrong!"-Brother Dave Gardener.

Vern is from Arkansas m’am please don’t throw me in the mix with those folks. It’s worse than that, Bama. He’s from the Ozarks part of Arkansas.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

If they’re going to work in a public system, then why not tell them where to go for a few years.

The standard rightist solution - boil everything down to money. The only reason somebody with ambition will teach is because of the salary they could command in a private system. Too bad for all those poor families who can’t afford the high fees this demands.

I take offense at this. I have been teaching for 7 years, and every single minute of it was in private schools – some posher than others – in two different states.

You might be surprised to know this, but my salary has been lower than the public schools’ average in both states every single year of my career – by several thousand dollars. Both of those states’ averages below the national median in 2004, too. When I finish my masters degree, I’ll probably be around the state average for a first year teacher. And yet, I have no intention of ever working in a public school, because I get to teach here.

Don’t make the mistake of thinking teachers are motivated by money. If we were, we’d be doing something else.

Your argument is flawed. I acknowledge that there are plenty of people who ought to be teaching but don’t because they can’t afford the pay cut, but it’s completely false to suggest that teachers are jumping to private schools solely because of money.

Peace,
Dante