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goofyjim
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You seemed to insinuate such by repeating the quote.
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estesbob
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I , Estesbob, hereby swear that I will never make a post that is refering to goffyjim unless I dierctly says so, so hlep me Ronald Reagan.
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Ridgerunner
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That’s a personal choice, of course. But another way of looking at it is that by taking the deduction, one is able to give more. I’m not sure I understand why the government should get a substantial percentage of what I might give to charity, particularly when the government says it’s ok with my doing it. The idea behind that is most charities take certain burdens that the government might otherwise be obliged to take on.
I don’t see it as taking away from the spirit of charity at all. Who, after all, sees your tax return? H&R Block and some person at IRS who doesn’t know you from Adam; perhaps only a scanning machine.
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goofyjim
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True Christianity calls us to tithe. If I itemize I better calculate in reverse to make my donations still be ten percent after the deductions are in place, if you know what I mean. We’re afraid to have the government collect taxes for the poor but if we keep on itemizing charitable donations they are still giving to the poor through subsidized charity. I say let’s scrap taxes altogether and everyone will come before the judgement seat of God someday on how charitable he truly was because only he and God will know.
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goofyjim
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I just grow extremely disgusted with this notion of “Republicans can do no wrong and Democrats can do no right”. That is hypocrisy. Hypocrisy comes from both the right and the left and it is the moderates who are being oppressed in between. Lord free us from both.
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estesbob
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Both sides have their problems. However the Democrat Party can not escape the fact they are awash in the blood of 50 million dead children. 400 children have been dismembered and thrown out with the trash since my first post to this thread this mornng. One party thinks this is evil-one party thinks taxpayers should pay for it.
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geraldffff
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I will cannot understand how the left cannot see that the protection of life is essential to the Right to life enshrined in the Bill of Right.
I cannot understand why the Church will not give up it’s tax exempt status so it can speak openly to those in the pews about their obligation to vote in a way that defeats the promoters of the death culture.
I cannot understand why the Church will not give up it’s tax exempt status so it can speak openly to those in the pews about their obligation to vote in a way that defeats the promoters of the death culture.
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cynic
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‘conservative’, right of centre political parties don’t neccessarily oppose abortion in other countries. It just so happens that the republican party has a strong christian base.
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LCMS_No_More
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estesbob
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Religion. Religion has always played a major role for both parties but, in the course of a century, the parties’ religious compositions have changed. Religion was a major dividing line between the parties before 1960, with Catholics, Jews, and the Protestant white South heavily Democratic, and Northeastern Protestants heavily Republican. Most of the old differences faded away after the realignment of the late 1960s that undercut the New Deal coalition. **Voters who attend church weekly gave 61% of their votes to Bush in **2004; those who attend occasionally gave him only 47%, while those who never attend gave him 36%. 59% of Protestants voted for Bush, along with 52% of Catholics (even though Kerry was Catholic). Since 1980, large majorities of evangelicals have voted Republican; 70-80% voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004, and 70% for GOP House candidates in 2006. Jews continue to vote 70-80% Democratic. Democrats have close links with the African American churches, especially the National Baptists, while their historic dominance among Catholic voters has eroded to 50-50. The main line traditional Protestants (Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians) have dropped to about 55% Republican (in contrast to 75% before 1968). Their church membership have dropped in that time as well, and the conservative evangelical rivals have grown.[34]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)#Voter_base
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SoCalRC
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It would be more accurate to say that the GOP has a very vocal Evangelical base. Which is why GOP national hopefuls actively seek out and promote endorsements from the likes of John Hagee.
Rather or not these supporters are, in fact, Christian, depends on one’s beliefs. For example, according to Hagee, I, being Catholic, am not Christian, but a member of a “pagan cult”.
This is hardly unique, Bob Jones Jr., to which all GOP hopefuls play homage, also considers Catholicism a non Christian cult. Lest we judge them too harshly, consider that, because they reject the meritorious nature of earthly works, Holy Tradition, the primacy and infallibility of the Church, the special vocation of priesthood, Transubstantiation, and the nature of the sacrament of baptism we Catholics do not, technically, consider them true followers of Christ either. However, until Pope Benedict XVI approved a document from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith stressing some of these differences, our Popes had, by and large, been stressing kindred beliefs with the fractured elements of the Mother Church since the Second Vatican Council - in the spirit of Peace and Unity.
It can be fun to pretend that Americans largely vote their faith, but stronger statistical correlations can be found from election to election in things like gender, age, and socio economic status. Connecting votes back to faith appears, for many, to be a rationalization. Compare the CAF voters guide to document prepared by then Cardinal Ratzinger and approved by Pope John Paul II. The Vatican provides 9 broad examples of issues on which Catholics should never compromise. The CAF document lists 5 principles which fully overlap only two of the Vatican’s examples, and partially overlap two more. If faith is first, why abridge what the Vicar of Christ has approved? On the other hand, if politics is first, purging the actual teachings of Christ makes sense.
Think about your statement. By declaring one party to be ‘more Christian’ and, hence, morally superior another is, from a Catholic point of view, acting in a distinctly non-Christian manner. We have multiple readings in our Litrugical Calendar which expressly warn us of the peril of moral relativism between ourselves and others.
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Ender
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Estesbob wasn’t expressing his opinion, he was merely stating a fact. In the 2004 election, Bush received about 56% of the Christian vote to Kerry’s 44%. Moreover, the more often a person attended Church the more likely he was to vote for Bush (> 1/wk: B 64%:K 35%), the less often he attended the more likely he was to support Kerry (never attended - B 36%:K 62%). Make of this information what you will - but speaking the truth is not normally considered non-Christian.
cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html
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BamaRider
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Ender sez-
cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pag…/epolls.0.html
So I’m gonna wait and see what happens next.
http://bestsmileys.com/eating1/16.gif
And provided this link on the stats-
cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pag…/epolls.0.html
So I’m gonna wait and see what happens next.
http://bestsmileys.com/eating1/16.gif
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cynic
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the republican party still taylors policies to appeal/represent it’s voters, and conservative christians, the bible belt whatever you want to call it, vote republican. This is a little different form right wing parties in other countries. They might have neo-liberal market driven ideologies, but they are quite happy to see abortion contine, and are generally ‘neutral’ when it comes to moral issues.
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estesbob
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Whether one party is more Christian is a matter that can be debated(however I doubt if Christ would side with a party that countenacnes the killing of 1.2 million children a year) The Facts are, however, that the more religious a person is the more likely they are to vote republican.
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vern_humphrey
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Whereas the Democratic Party tailors policies to appeal/represent its voters – which is why it favors abortion, gay marriage, allowing convicted prisoners to vote, and so on.
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Ridgerunner
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It’s not a matter of “being” Republican vs. “being” Democrat. It’s a matter of what you consider most important in the public arena and who, among the candidates or even which, among the parties, is most likely to support that.
I’m a “cradle Democrat” and once held party office myself. I was pretty much a knee-jerk Democrat too. But when the party embraced abortion totally, I felt it moved away from me. Some can argue that a strong party affiliation such as I once had was idolatrous, and maybe it was. I have not had that kind of relationship with any party since then.
But the Democrat party is presently the party of abortion; totally and utterly. A vote for their candidates is a vote for abortion. Maybe the party will change and maybe it won’t. I have a feeling it won’t change until enough people see the light and vote against their candidates election after election after election. Losing is the only thing that might someday make a difference with the Dems.
Winning sure won’t.
I’m a “cradle Democrat” and once held party office myself. I was pretty much a knee-jerk Democrat too. But when the party embraced abortion totally, I felt it moved away from me. Some can argue that a strong party affiliation such as I once had was idolatrous, and maybe it was. I have not had that kind of relationship with any party since then.
But the Democrat party is presently the party of abortion; totally and utterly. A vote for their candidates is a vote for abortion. Maybe the party will change and maybe it won’t. I have a feeling it won’t change until enough people see the light and vote against their candidates election after election after election. Losing is the only thing that might someday make a difference with the Dems.
Winning sure won’t.
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cynic
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Correct. So what? The point was to say that ‘right wing’ does not always = morally conservative. It more often than not happens to in the U.S. Elsewhere it doesn’t. Right wing parties in other countries have a strong emphasis on freedom of the individual, which includes freedom to abort a baby, freedom for civil unions, gay marriage etc. More libertarian than conservative. I think economic and moral ‘freedom’ go well togethor anyway, they’re both about selfishness.
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DanteAlighieri
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I would be careful about characterizing this as “the profession” having sold out – there are many teachers who are not members of the NEA, and I’m sure many who are members that do not stand for all of its tenets.
And there’s yet another reason to teach at private schools: no forced union membership! Of course, I live in a right-to-work state…
Peace,
Dante
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vern_humphrey
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So the left wing is also not hipped on morals.
Ah, yes – Europeans are so much holier than Americans.
Ah, so “liberty” = abortion in those countries?
Kind of like saying in Nazi Germany, the Jews had the freedom to die.:whacky:
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