Hypocrisy and Right vs. Left Wing

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You can cite whatever source you want, but I know for an absolute fact that insurers can and usually do, get significant discounts from Medicare rate for the very same treatments and procedures.
No one is disputing your personal experiences. I have stated myself that Medicare Plan D actually makes drugs more expensive for seniors, since it specifically prohibits free market negotiation.

However, the statistical sampling of one person’s experiences in the system do not reflect the whole system. Back in 1993, our best estimate was that Medicare paid about 76% of private fees:

encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-14747437.html

It is possible that gap has shrunk, but OBRA, the law that sets the schedules, is based partly on a percentage of prevailing rates.

That is why, the US Office of the Inspector General (OIG) found that Medicare rates were 81% in 2004, 11 years later. Yes, it had grown, but that is principally do to downward pressure from insurers.

Remember, Medicare is constructed to pay for services, as noted, it is not particularly constructed to stop fraud. Private Insurance is geared towards profit - spending as little as possible on patients. Since medical care infaltionis running about 10-18% in this country, there is terrible pressure to drive costs down. So auto adjustment is hard to keep up.
I know you will take offense, and I regret that, but I would not believe WHO’s judgment of anything affecting the U.S. But even if I believed this 30/37 th business, there are signficant differences between the populations of the U.S. and that of Canada. I have certainly heard of Canadians coming to the U.S. for care. Never have I heard of anyone going from the U.S. to Canada in the belief that they could obtain better care; certainly not quicker.
Why would I be offended? You already indicated that facts and studies have no effect on your opinions, at least in this matter.

Yes, some people come to the US, because the Canadian system is not perfect. Some do not want to wait for hip replacement surgery. Others are sent here, paid by the Canadian government, because of a shortage in a particular care resource.

But, the WHO collects primarily studies from, well, us. We have poorer access to care, poorer outcome, and spend lots more.
 
So, the GAO, the CBO, and various watchdog groups all conspire?
Ever since the internet has been up, I have seen government statistics slowly fade into claims that the government is perfect and getting better.😛
So you are saying that Ridgerunner is incorrect? If Medicare is paying more for services than private insurance, wouldn’t the doctors and hospitals, which are for profit entities, prefer Medicare cases then?

Or are you saying that the free market does not work?
Knock, knock! Medicare shifts administrative costs onto the provider, running up huge costs in administrative work. It doesn’t matter how much Medicare pays, it matters how much profit the providers keep.

The administrative costs bleed off the profit – hence we have the paradox of high pay, low benefit.
 
Why would I be offended? You already indicated that facts and studies have no effect on your opinions, at least in this matter.

QUOTE]

Kind of catty there. But no, my point was that one can find sources to support almost any point of view. However, when one knows for a fact that private insurers get discounts from Medicare rate and that private insurers administer Medicare claims, one is unpersuaded by sources that say Medicare is more efficient than private insurance.
 
RidgeRunner made a few timely posts regarding medicare and qualified his comments by stating he use to work in the field-
disagree. Private insurers generally pay less, often a lot less, than does Medicare, for the very same thing. I work with people who negotiate provider contracts, and used to negotiate them myself.
But then the SoCal said this after reading his comments-
You already indicated that facts and studies have no effect on your opinions, at least in this matter.
Shoot Ridge, you need to set your real world experience aside and get on the internet if ya wanna know the truth about something, like GOVT STATS! http://bestsmileys.com/lol/12.gif
 
RidgeRunner made a few timely posts regarding medicare and qualified his comments by stating he use to work in the field-

But then the SoCal said this after reading his comments-

Shoot Ridge, you need to set your real world experience aside and get on the internet if ya wanna know the truth about something, like GOVT STATS! http://bestsmileys.com/lol/12.gif
I rather trust people such a Robert Greenstein and Lawrence Mishel than you!!
 
Ribo believes these 2 chaps have the words of enlightenment-
I rather trust people such a Robert Greenstein and Lawrence Mishel than you!!
Who are they?
 
Knock, knock! Medicare shifts administrative costs onto the provider, running up huge costs in administrative work. It doesn’t matter how much Medicare pays, it matters how much profit the providers keep.

The administrative costs bleed off the profit – hence we have the paradox of high pay, low benefit.
That is nonsensical. Medicare actually requires less paperwork and fewer challenges that private insurance. That is why the GAO cites it as “potentially high risk” for fraud.

Look at Ridgerunner’s comments. He knows that the private insurers fight tooth and nail to pay out as little as possible.

This has created a growing industry. For example, I have very good medical coverage, but I opt for what is now referred to as ‘concierge medicine’. Rather than see a doctor who crams in 40 office visits a day and then spends hours before and after battling with private insurers, I see a doctor whose entire patient base is less than 500. If I call with a question, I get him on the phone. If I need to see him, it is same day or next. If I have questions while I am there, he’ll sit down and talk to me for as long as it takes. But, of course, I pay for this. I still have my drug benefits and excellent PPO insurance for tests and hospital stuff.

This is, presumably, the GOP ideal. I can afford it, so I get better health care. But I find it troubling. The service I’m getting now is close to what I received as a child (minus the house visits), and I grew up on a home with no indoor plumbing. And it is not particularly special for many industrialized nations around the world. But even though we in the US are paying more for health care than anyone else, ‘good’ health care for many is now the HMO cattle call experience and 40 million or so Americans don’t have even that.
 
That is nonsensical. Medicare actually requires less paperwork and fewer challenges that private insurance. That is why the GAO cites it as “potentially high risk” for fraud.
My wife is a Registered Nurse, and I have worked with her in implementing the various Medicare requirements.
Look at Ridgerunner’s comments. He knows that the private insurers fight tooth and nail to pay out as little as possible.
As opposed to Medicare, which simply shuffles paper – at great cost to the provider.
 
My 2 cents:

Typical Leftist Complaint:

“You guys may be big on the whole Pro-Life and family values shtick, but you don’t care about THE POOR!!!”

Typical Leftist Offer: “Vote us in and give us lots of $$$. We’ll take care of the poor so you don’t have to. You can do NOTHING and feel like you’re helping your fellow man.”

Fine Print: “Thanks for the $$$. Now we’ll use it to kill babies, give out condoms, promote sodomy, and run a police state that gives aid and comfort to anyone and everyone who wants to destroy your culture, your faith, and everything you stand for.”

A Faustian bargin if there ever was one.:banghead:
 
The Son of Rome came on here and said this-
My 2 cents:
Typical Leftist Complaint:
“You guys may be big on the whole Pro-Life and family values shtick, but you don’t care about THE POOR!!!”
Typical Leftist Offer: “Vote us in and give us lots of $$$. We’ll take care of the poor so you don’t have to. You can do NOTHING and feel like you’re helping your fellow man.”
Fine Print: “Thanks for the $$$. Now we’ll use it to kill babies, give out condoms, promote sodomy, and run a police state that gives aid and comfort to anyone and everyone who wants to destroy your culture, your faith, and everything you stand for.”
A Faustian bargin if there ever was one.
http://bestsmileys.com/shooting1/5.gif

Sign that boy up!
 
That is nonsensical. Medicare actually requires less paperwork and fewer challenges that private insurance. That is why the GAO cites it as “potentially high risk” for fraud.

Look at Ridgerunner’s comments. He knows that the private insurers fight tooth and nail to pay out as little as possible.

This has created a growing industry. For example, I have very good medical coverage, but I opt for what is now referred to as ‘concierge medicine’. Rather than see a doctor who crams in 40 office visits a day and then spends hours before and after battling with private insurers, I see a doctor whose entire patient base is less than 500. If I call with a question, I get him on the phone. If I need to see him, it is same day or next. If I have questions while I am there, he’ll sit down and talk to me for as long as it takes. But, of course, I pay for this. I still have my drug benefits and excellent PPO insurance for tests and hospital stuff.

This is, presumably, the GOP ideal. I can afford it, so I get better health care. But I find it troubling. The service I’m getting now is close to what I received as a child (minus the house visits), and I grew up on a home with no indoor plumbing. And it is not particularly special for many industrialized nations around the world. But even though we in the US are paying more for health care than anyone else, ‘good’ health care for many is now the HMO cattle call experience and 40 million or so Americans don’t have even that.
Indisputably there are some “cattle call” aspects to medicine, largely related to the income expectations of the medical giants, not the payment source. My wife directs medical care for ARC folks, virtually all of whom are on Medicaid. Those people get more and better care than her or me, by far. She makes sure of it.

A lot of it also depends on where a person lives, and the number of physicians in that area. A middle sized city near here is a “doctor magnet”. Those physicians to whom I have talked about it talk about the “quality of life” as being the motivating factor. Good place to raise a family for a lot of reasons. Perhaps as a consequence, there are lot of doctors per capita here as well, though this town is smaller. Fewer amenities, but the same basic living situation.

I never have any trouble getting doctors (surgeons excepted) on the phone, or at least getting them to return my call.

So, surgeons notwithstanding, I guess maybe we’re getting “concierge” medicine without having to pay the premium for it. This is an extremely Republican part of the country, and nearly every doctor I know is a Republican, so I don’t know that “cattle call care” is necessarily a “Republican ideal”.

A brother of mine, who lives in a large city and who actually has better coverage than I do, does get the “cattle call” treatment a lot. But that’s a medical organization thing, not an insurer thing. I guess some of those giant, very profitable, medical organizations it because they can get away with it.

Interestingly, his son in law, who practices medicine in that city, discussed with me his desire to be in a less stressful group than the one he was then with. He didn’t want quite such a patient load. During his “thinking period” I strongly encouraged him to “strike out” on his own with a handful of other doctors he knew who were thinking of doing the same thing. But he didn’t do it and stayed with the “cattle call” organization because he was nervous about the investment required, the drop in income he could reasonably expect starting up and the retirement plan in the big group. (He’s in his thirties) The other guys did go out on their own. Sometimes what happens in medicine is the same thing that sometimes happens in any other walk of life. The giant employers do provide security, or the appearance thereof, versus being “on one’s own”. For some doctors, as with many people in other walks of life, (my own occupation is no different) security is more highly valued than the degree of independence (and insecurity) they might have with fewer patients. But they pay a price for that additional degree of security.

Maybe the Republican doctors around here understand that a little better than some.

I will agree that good insurers do fight to keep costs down. But the big effort is getting the pricing agreements in the first place, not denying treatment. There’s no money in that, compared to obtaining pricing agreements, and there’s a lot of adverse publicity attendant on denying treatment. The government doesn’t have to worry about that, or doesn’t. I will say that insurers do spend considerable effort fighting abusive practices like unbundling, upcoding and “inadvertent” departures from the pricing agreement.

Indisputably, there are problems with healthcare in the U.S. Perhaps the biggest one of which I am aware is the government’s acceptance, authorship really, of “Reasonable and Necessary”, an outrageous pricing system which is neither “Reasonable” nor “Necessary”. That’s what you pay if you aren’t insured or indigent, but only because the government requires a “tiered” system. The whole silly thing also requires a lot of paperwork overhead.

I’ll add, just for the record, that I’m not a Republican. I just have a problem with claiming they’re responsible for every problem from the cost of medical care to lightning hazards on golf courses.
 
My 2 cents:

Typical Leftist Complaint:

“You guys may be big on the whole Pro-Life and family values shtick, but you don’t care about THE POOR!!!”

Typical Leftist Offer: “Vote us in and give us lots of $$$. We’ll take care of the poor so you don’t have to. You can do NOTHING and feel like you’re helping your fellow man.”

Fine Print: “Thanks for the $$$. Now we’ll use it to kill babies, give out condoms, promote sodomy, and run a police state that gives aid and comfort to anyone and everyone who wants to destroy your culture, your faith, and everything you stand for.”

A Faustian bargin if there ever was one.:banghead:
Mighty big assumption about all liberals, don’t you think? Then again conservatives do such things.
 
Now you want an example of hypocrisy? Those on the left are somehow forbidden to call those on the right Nazis while those on the right have free reign to do it to those on the left. Fair game is fair game. If you’re going to call the left wing names you will have to accept it yourself.
 
Now you want an example of hypocrisy? Those on the left are somehow forbidden to call those on the right Nazis while those on the right have free reign to do it to those on the left. Fair game is fair game. If you’re going to call the left wing names you will have to accept it yourself.
Take a deep breath, wipe your chin, blow you nose, and see if you can come up with something of substance, and avoid slurring other people.
 
Take a deep breath, wipe your chin, blow you nose, and see if you can come up with something of substance, and avoid slurring other people.
I’m done with you Vern. You hear nothing but what you want to hear and always want substance. I’m not going to keep on doing the wokr all the time. But if you look around on these forums the right wing calls the left Nazis all the time and then whimpers and complains when they are called the same thing. If you ask me there is a little bit of Nazism from both sides and that’s why I am a moderate freethinker.
 
I’m done with you Vern.
Promises, promises.😛

Try being more mature, using less vituperation, less broad-brush painting of other people, and more logic and facts and we’ll get along just fine.
 
Now you want an example of hypocrisy? Those on the left are somehow forbidden to call those on the right Nazis while those on the right have free reign to do it to those on the left. Fair game is fair game. If you’re going to call the left wing names you will have to accept it yourself.
Where did that come from? I agree - no one should call another a Nazi, unless they really are, of course.

If this reply was to my post just previous, I was pointing out that you made a “big assumption” about “conservatives doing such things” as making “big assumptions” about liberals. Do you not understand what irony is?
 
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