Hypocrisy and sexism

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daniellet

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This is a follow up thread to the thread about women priests.

Liberal christians claim that it is unfair and sexist that women are not priests. Isn’t it sexist to assume that the priesthood (a male vocation) is the highest calling. Isn’t it patriarchal thought (which liberals claim to abhor) which leads us to believe in that view of priesthood as superior? Why aren’t liberals calling for men to be called to the vocation of motherhood? Following this line of thinking, can’t it be argued that motherhood is perhaps the higher calling and it is unfair that men are excluded from such a calling?

Danielle
 
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daniellet:
This is a follow up thread to the thread about women priests.

Liberal christians claim that it is unfair and sexist that women are not priests. Isn’t it sexist to assume that the priesthood (a male vocation) is the highest calling. Isn’t it patriarchal thought (which liberals claim to abhor) which leads us to believe in that view of priesthood as superior? Why aren’t liberals calling for men to be called to the vocation of motherhood? Following this line of thinking, can’t it be argued that motherhood is perhaps the higher calling and it is unfair that men are excluded from such a calling?

Danielle
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I understand where you are coming from, but they would answer that there already are house husbands who care for the children while the woman earns the daily bread. It isn’t actually bearing children in the womb that matters here. And, the priesthood isn’t a function of biology, either.

The reason the priesthood isn’t open to women has more to do with sacrificial symbolism than with biological gender, per se. It was more through the sin of Adam than through Eve that sin entered the world. Adam ought to have corrected Eve and/or offered himself to God as propitiation for her sin. Instead, he wimped out and sin entered the world, so it is only fitting that the male have to offer up the sacrifice which the Second Adam offered to the Father. It has nothing to do with who has the power, but with who owes the sacrifice.
 
Hi Della,

Thank you for your eloquent explanation of the male offering the sacrifice!

With regards to motherhood, I am referring to more than the biology of motherhood, but to the idea that God chose woman as mother because her feminine nature is “superior” for the task of motherly nurture. I believe Judaism regards the woman as spiritually superior, which is why she is the one to make Sabbath preparations. A patriarchal society dismisses these notions and is oriented toward esteeming the more public role of priest as superior, therefore something for women to have access to in the name of equality. I am not being very eloquent here, but did want to further flesh out my thoughts.

Danielle
 
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daniellet:
Hi Della,

Thank you for your eloquent explanation of the male offering the sacrifice!

With regards to motherhood, I am referring to more than the biology of motherhood, but to the idea that God chose woman as mother because her feminine nature is “superior” for the task of motherly nurture. I believe Judaism regards the woman as spiritually superior, which is why she is the one to make Sabbath preparations. A patriarchal society dismisses these notions and is oriented toward esteeming the more public role of priest as superior, therefore something for women to have access to in the name of equality. I am not being very eloquent here, but did want to further flesh out my thoughts.

Danielle
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In fact I have been told by several Jewish friends of mine that unless a persons mother is Jewish, that person is not considered a Jew. I have read a book in the past, I don’t remember title or author, but it involved men with non-Jewish mothers who served in the S.S. during WW II. I wonder does that make Judaism from which we Catholics are sprung, a Matriarchal religion dispite the fact that in the past only men were Rabbis which of course is no longer the case in some modern forms of Judaism,
 
Women got the bad end of the deal with the whole Adam and Eve thing in the Garden of Eden but I guess that shows how Tradition holds women. Plus, God created Adam first and then made Eve to be his “helper”. :rolleyes:
 
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mrs_abbott:
Women got the bad end of the deal with the whole Adam and Eve thing in the Garden of Eden but I guess that shows how Tradition holds women. Plus, God created Adam first and then made Eve to be his “helper”. :rolleyes:
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I can’t agree with your assessment of the Genesis account. 🙂 It never bothered me that Eve got the consequences she did, and through her all women. Men have their consequences too. They just don’t make as big a thing out of it that we often do. 😉

And as for being created as a “helper,” well, what’s so terrible about that? What does it mean to be a helper? It means to be a partner with someone so he will be complete. After all, I hardly think God didn’t have women in mind all along.

Rather, he let Adam be alone long enough to realize that he needed someone else–not just the birds, bees, deer, lions, etc., who were not his equals. No, he needed an equal–and by making him wait for his equal God ensured that Adam would appreciate how special she was when she entered his life. :yup:
 
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daniellet:
Hi Della,

Thank you for your eloquent explanation of the male offering the sacrifice!
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Yes, it really makes sense when understood from that perspective, doesn’t it?
With regards to motherhood, I am referring to more than the biology of motherhood, but to the idea that God chose woman as mother because her feminine nature is “superior” for the task of motherly nurture. I believe Judaism regards the woman as spiritually superior, which is why she is the one to make Sabbath preparations. A patriarchal society dismisses these notions and is oriented toward esteeming the more public role of priest as superior, therefore something for women to have access to in the name of equality. I am not being very eloquent here, but did want to further flesh out my thoughts.

Danielle
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You may be right about patriarchal societies, but if they do appreciate priests more than the role of women, then they are not thinking correctly about the meaning of the word vocation, are they?

And I completely agree about motherhood, I was just pointing out what die hard feminists would think of it, although I think them quite wrong. 🙂
 
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Della:
I can’t agree with your assessment of the Genesis account. 🙂 It never bothered me that Eve got the consequences she did, and through her all women. Men have their consequences too. They just don’t make as big a thing out of it that we often do. 😉

And as for being created as a “helper,” well, what’s so terrible about that? What does it mean to be a helper? It means to be a partner with someone so he will be complete. After all, I hardly think God didn’t have women in mind all along.

Rather, he let Adam be alone long enough to realize that he needed someone else–not just the birds, bees, deer, lions, etc., who were not his equals. No, he needed an equal–and by making him wait for his equal God ensured that Adam would appreciate how special she was when she entered his life. :yup:
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It also struck me as powerful that God spoke to Eve directly about the prophecy that foreshadows Jesus. Has anyone else notices this? He doesn’t say that both your descendents will crush the serpents head. He speaks directly to Eve.
 
God said and so it was. No changing that.
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Della:
I can’t agree with your assessment of the Genesis account. 🙂 It never bothered me that Eve got the consequences she did, and through her all women. Men have their consequences too. They just don’t make as big a thing out of it that we often do. 😉

And as for being created as a “helper,” well, what’s so terrible about that? What does it mean to be a helper? It means to be a partner with someone so he will be complete. After all, I hardly think God didn’t have women in mind all along.

Rather, he let Adam be alone long enough to realize that he needed someone else–not just the birds, bees, deer, lions, etc., who were not his equals. No, he needed an equal–and by making him wait for his equal God ensured that Adam would appreciate how special she was when she entered his life. :yup:
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deb1:
It also struck me as powerful that God spoke to Eve directly about the prophecy that foreshadows Jesus. Has anyone else notices this? He doesn’t say that both your descendents will crush the serpents head. He speaks directly to Eve.
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Aaah…my computer froze as soon as I hit submit and I couldn’t make the edits in this post that I meant to. So ignore any strange wording or misspelling in the above post.
 
I have always struggled with the issue of the punishment of Adam and Eve. Most people feel that Eve and in turn all women were punished more harshly than Adam. Some people feel that Eve was the source of all sin. Some people feel that because of Eve’s failure all women for all time can’t be trusted as a teaching authority. What has always struck me as strange about this interpetation is that Eve failed to hold up to temptation from Satan where as Adam couldn’t hold up against just Eve. Who failed at the easier task here?
 
AltarMan said:
“feminism” = sexism in practice.
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This depends on your definition of feminist. If you are thinking of the popular media depiction as that of women who either hate men or believe that women are more superior to women, then yes, that type of feminism is extremly sexist.

Some people could use the term feminist merely to describe someone who believes that women are the moral and intellictual equals of men. This wouldn’t be a sexist definition of feminism.
 
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