Hypocrisy in the Pews

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netmil(name removed by moderator):
I am amazed that you would compare women who will go back to an Historically Catholic tradition (never banned just relaxed) with Homosexuals and those that support them.

Are you sure that you want to continue that comparison?
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The comparison is made only in the context of drawing attention to oneself during the Mass when all eyes should be on the altar.
 
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AltarMan:
The comparison is made only in the context of drawing attention to oneself during the Mass when all eyes should be on the altar.
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Drawing attention? Seeing one bend their knees to Christ is drawing attention? We really have gone off course.
 
How is it we are even thinking kneeling to receive Christ is controversial?
 
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AltarMan:
The comparison is made only in the context of drawing attention to oneself during the Mass when all eyes should be on the altar.
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That is a horrendously bad comparison.
There are women who are having a bad hair day that are wearing scarves. I went to 6am Mass on Monday morning and wore a knit cap the whole mass because I only had time to run a brush through my hair.
Geez oh Pete, in my parish in the middle of our Michigan winter, there are more women with hats than without.
If you read through that entire thread (and yes I did) most of the ladies were trying to figure out a way to cover their heads without standing out. Many went with Headbands and Scarves.
How do you compare this to Rainbow Sash people?
 
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AltarMan:
The comparison is made only in the context of drawing attention to oneself during the Mass when all eyes should be on the altar.
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Ah yes, that would be the women in the florescent orange, sequinned mantillas.

I don’t know any of those, certainlly not Netmil(name removed by moderator), I know her pastor too well and he wouldn’t tolerant such in his parish.

A regular hat is fine instead.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
That is a horrendously bad comparison.
There are women who are having a bad hair day that are wearing scarves. I went to 6am Mass on Monday morning and wore a knit cap the whole mass because I only had time to run a brush through my hair.
Geez oh Pete, in my parish in the middle of our Michigan winter, there are more women with hats than without.
If you read through that entire thread (and yes I did) most of the ladies were trying to figure out a way to cover their heads without standing out. Many went with Headbands and Scarves.
How do you compare this to Rainbow Sash people?
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Hold the phone. There is obviously nothing wrong with women covering their heads at Mass. There is however a great deal wrong with someone calling for women to cover their heads as some sort of protest or sign of solidarity. That dosen’t belong at the Mass.
 
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AltarMan:
The comparison is made only in the context of drawing attention to oneself during the Mass when all eyes should be on the altar.
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This is exactly my point. I think in a daily Mass or lightly attended Mass where all people would know and understand the motives of the person who was kneeling this wouldn’t be an issue. However, it is hard to deny that it will cause many in the congregation to turn and notice a personal act of piety and draw attention away from the altar.

Secondly, just because something is a practice in Rome (or the US for that matter), doesn’t mean that one should go into another’s house (ala another diocese) and flaunt the established, approved norms of that house. Similarly, just becuase it is done in Rome doesn’t mean we should start doing as Rome does here. It would be chaos, foster confusion and disunity, and if combined with rejecting instructin from a Pastor an attitude of picking and choosing what we like and don’t like from the Pastor.
 
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fix:
Drawing attention? Seeing one bend their knees to Christ is drawing attention? We really have gone off course.
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You better believe it. In my parish it would create a terrible traffic jam. I can honestly see people stopping and turning around to ensure someone didn’t just stroke-out at the foot of the sanctuary…
 
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Orionthehunter:
This is exactly my point. I think in a daily Mass or lightly attended Mass where all people would know and understand the motives of the person who was kneeling this wouldn’t be an issue. However, it is hard to deny that it will cause many in the congregation to turn and notice a personal act of piety and draw attention away from the altar.

Secondly, just because something is a practice in Rome (or the US for that matter), doesn’t mean that one should go into another’s house (ala another diocese) and flaunt the established, approved norms of that house. Similarly, just becuase it is done in Rome doesn’t mean we should start doing as Rome does here. It would be chaos, foster confusion and disunity, and if combined with rejecting instructin from a Pastor an attitude of picking and choosing what we like and don’t like from the Pastor.
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With all the irregularities that happen so often in so many parishes, am I to believe someone kneeling to receive communion is the cause of disunity? That is legalism extraordinaire.
 
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AltarMan:
You better believe it. In my parish it would create a terrible traffic jam. I can honestly see people stopping and turning around to ensure someone didn’t just stroke-out at the foot of the sanctuary…
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Absurd.
 
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AltarMan:
Hold the phone. There is obviously nothing wrong with women covering their heads at Mass. There is however a great deal wrong with someone calling for women to cover their heads as some sort of protest or sign of solidarity. That dosen’t belong at the Mass.
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Apparently, you didn’t closely follow the thread.
No one was stating it as a sign of protest.
And exactly what is wrong with solidarity?? I wear a crucifix to show I am Catholic. I wear a badge stating that I am part of the Rosary Society. We have masses where all the Slovak Dancers wear their costumes when the year begins. Father blesses the girls and their endeavors. The Knights of Columbus show up in full garb. Once a year we all run down to an Old Polish Church to have our Polish Dancers blessed. They are also in full costume.

Is it a problem just because nothing says traditional Catholic woman more than a mantilla?
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Apparently, you didn’t closely follow the thread.
No one was stating it as a sign of protest.
And exactly what is wrong with solidarity?? I wear a crucifix to show I am Catholic. I wear a badge stating that I am part of the Rosary Society. We have masses where all the Slovak Dancers wear their costumes when the year begins. Father blesses the girls and their endeavors. The Knights of Columbus show up in full garb. Once a year we all run down to an Old Polish Church to have our Polish Dancers blessed. They are also in full costume.

Is it a problem just because nothing says** traditional** Catholic woman more than a mantilla?
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I have no idea what “traditional” means in this context.
 
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AltarMan:
rf. posting #25 on this thread.
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Michelle at no point stated that this is disobedience, only ‘problematic’

And as Cardinal Arinze specically said there is no disobedience, I still see no hypocracy.

Someone who disapproves of disobedient acts, while doing none themselves is hardly hypocratic.
 
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Brendan:
Michelle at no point stated that this is disobedience, only ‘problematic’

And as Cardinal Arinze specically said there is no disobedience, I still see no hypocracy.

Someone who disapproves of disobedient acts, while doing none themselves is hardly hypocratic.
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Yes, and are we to believe that when the Vatican states one is not to be called disobedient, the Vatican is lying? Meaning such folks really are disobedient, we just can’t use that term?
 
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fix:
With all the irregularities that happen so often in so many parishes, am I to believe someone kneeling to receive communion is the cause of disunity? That is legalism extraordinaire.
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As one who wants to promote unity and bring people who have been practicing “misinterpretations” or “unintentional abuses” into compliance, I think that if I were to start doing something like this in defiance of a direct request of my Pastor, I don’t think I’d be helping the Pastor get people to comply on the other issues I think we all want to get done.

Secondly, Altarman’s comment about tripping over people and extending the time for communion is very real in at least all the parishes (7) in my city. Take for instance, my parish where we have three Masses on Sunday a.m. We have only 30 minutes between Masses and absolutely have to get people in and out becuase of limitations on parking. We live in a northern state and it is below zero today so to suggest parking in neighborhoods is not an option. Because of our parking problem, when Mass goes over an hour, you can sense the “energy” as people know that soon the “early arrivers” will be trying to get in the parking lot as they try to get out. It becomes totally chaotic.

If we were to have people kneeling and extending the time for Communion, we’d have to increase the number of EMHC’s. Is this what we want?

P.S. While the parking lot situation is not ideal, we are actually pretty understanding as we lost a good portion of our parking lot when we doubled the size of our Catholic grade school. To us, this problem is the price we are gleefully paying for having so many of our young getting a good Catholic education.
 
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AltarMan:
I think Michelle Arnold hit the nail on the head with:

“…For a communicant at a standard Roman-rite liturgy to deliberately ignore the just instruction from a priest to receive Communion while standing, instruction given in accord with the liturgical rubrics approved by the Vatican for use in the United States, would be problematic indeed. We are called to be faithful to all just instruction given by the Church through its ordained ministers, not only to those instructions we like or understand…”

Available here in its entirety.
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I think this post deserves to be bumped as it does so well to explain where I’m coming from regarding how defying this legitimate instruction doesn’t enhance show respect and support for a Pastor charges with bringing all into GIRM conformance. It is especially a potential big hinderance if the person kneeling is known for his orthodoxy as he too is picking and choosing which legitimate instructions he is following.
 
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AltarMan:
I have no idea what “traditional” means in this context.
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traditional with a small “t” as opposed to modernistic.
A woman in a Mantilla or chapel cap is an Historically Catholic picture.
Some of the Modernist that I have spoken to are very open to anything that is Historically Protestant such as hand holding in prayer (my Presbyterian in-laws do that) but tick and cluck at Rosaries, genuflecting or devotions such as the Divine Mercy Chaplet.

You’re not that way, are you? A woman covering her head in prayer is allowed, but not manditory in our churches. Again, there is nothing of protest here, solidarity maybe, but we do that in many ways.
 
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