Hypocritical message on homosexuality

[mrld20]

I am a 19 year old Catholic with same-sex attractions. I just wanted some clarification on the Church’s teachings on homosexuality.

I am not looking for the Church to accept homosexuality (or any part of it), and I understand that me being gay and catholic means I have to be celibate.

But some times I get so discouraged over the Church’s messages to Catholics like me.

I want to clarify again that I am not looking for the Church to accept any part of homosexuality. I just wish they would clarify their message some times. I’ve gone over every possible document from the Vatican to the USCCB.

Every time I see a document like “Always Our Children” I get encouraged because I know the Church cares for people like me. But then when I see our holy father say homosexuals are a big threat like global warming I get so hurt and upset because I don’t feel welcome in my own church.

When a Bishop stands up and says that discrimination against people with same-sex attractions is wrong I’m so happy because someone has stood up for me. But then when another Bishop says homosexuality is a wound; I feel so let down because they don’t know what people like me go through.

My home diocese has a wonderful outreach program for gay catholics like me. The priests are friendly and it makes me feel welcome in the Church while still remaining faithful to the Church’s teachings.

But then when I hear about the group Courage all I see is a negative message. They make it seem like being gay is some how the worst possible thing that has happened. My diocese’s program is so nice and welcoming but then when it comes to Courage all there that’s there is a negative message.

I’m not looking for the Church to change any teachings; I’m a celibate gay and will always remain that way. But I’m getting really depressed and upset over all the hypocritical messages going around.

I just wish the Church would have a more clarified message. I wish all the Bishop’s would consult each other before blindly spewing out a statement.

It’s getting to the point where I don’t even feel welcome in the Church I’ve grown up in.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

.

You aer young and maybe you think your case is unique.
But in every other case, the situation is the same. The Church tries to reach for adulterous people BUT at the same time reminding of Christ’s teaching. The Church tries to reach for alcoholics BUT at the same time tries that they abandon the vice.

An so on. It is not hypocritical. That is the double atitude you must have. You cannot see only condamnation nor only support.

I do not know homosexuality in a very deep level. This situation is much controversial as I think viewpoints are leaded by emotion and not by medical science. From what I studied and reflected, I have got my own opinion which is optimistic, but I refrain from explaining here, as this subject is too sensitive and subjective.

 

[Windfish]

You have to distinguish between “homosexual” and “homosexualist.” To the extent that the Church expresses a negative view on homosexuality, it is almost always in reference to the latter, not the former. The homosexualist is someone who accepts a secular “progressive” view of sexuality. Not only do they seek tolerance of their sexuality, but also approval. They are ideologues and seek to shape society along their ideology. And it is that which the Church sees as a danger. Anyone who expresses the Catholic view of homosexuality is their enemy or opponent on the ideological and political scene.

I hope that helps.

 

[babylonsfalling]

I am a 19 year old Catholic with same-sex attractions. I just wanted some clarification on the Church’s teachings on homosexuality.

I am not looking for the Church to accept homosexuality (or any part of it), and I understand that me being gay and catholic means I have to be celibate.

But some times I get so discouraged over the Church’s messages to Catholics like me.

I want to clarify again that I am not looking for the Church to accept any part of homosexuality. I just wish they would clarify their message some times. I’ve gone over every possible document from the Vatican to the USCCB.

Every time I see a document like “Always Our Children” I get encouraged because I know the Church cares for people like me. But then when I see our holy father say homosexuals are a big threat like global warming I get so hurt and upset because I don’t feel welcome in my own church.

When a Bishop stands up and says that discrimination against people with same-sex attractions is wrong I’m so happy because someone has stood up for me. But then when another Bishop says homosexuality is a wound; I feel so let down because they don’t know what people like me go through.

My home diocese has a wonderful outreach program for gay catholics like me. The priests are friendly and it makes me feel welcome in the Church while still remaining faithful to the Church’s teachings.

But then when I hear about the group Courage all I see is a negative message. They make it seem like being gay is some how the worst possible thing that has happened. My diocese’s program is so nice and welcoming but then when it comes to Courage all there that’s there is a negative message.

I’m not looking for the Church to change any teachings; I’m a celibate gay and will always remain that way. But I’m getting really depressed and upset over all the hypocritical messages going around.

I just wish the Church would have a more clarified message. I wish all the Bishop’s would consult each other before blindly spewing out a statement.

It’s getting to the point where I don’t even feel welcome in the Church I’ve grown up in.

I have been in and out of the Catholic Church and I can tell you that the other churches I’ve been too are much more “loud” about their negative opinion of homosexuality than the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church correctly maintains that it is a sin, but not the “BIG SIN” that other churches (in my experience) have made it into.

I do suspect however that homosexuals are especially sensitive to criticism of their orientation, perhaps because the sexual nature of this issue makes it seem more like an attack on their person than it is intended.

 

[1ke]

What about the Courage apostolate do you believe to be negative? I have only heard good things about the group.

I cannot comment on these other things, because i have no personal knowledge of the Pope or a Bishop saying something like that. Perhaps you can link to a document for the context?

 

[babylonsfalling]

What about the Courage apostolate do you believe to be negative? I have only heard good things about the group.

I cannot comment on these other things, because i have no personal knowledge of the Pope or a Bishop saying something like that. Perhaps you can link to a document for the context?

I don’t think the courage apostolate is negative from what I know of it.
But I also wonder if you didn’t intend your question for the OP?

 

[tabbey48]

mrld20 wrote

My home diocese has a wonderful outreach program for gay catholics like me. The priests are friendly and it makes me feel welcome in the Church while still remaining faithful to the Church’s teachings.

Please forgive many of us in the Church who are still trying to understand homosexuality with so much conflicting information flying at us. The one thing we ought to know is that we love the people involved because God loves them.

Build on the positive things you have going for you in your home diocese.

You said, “I’m a celibate gay and will always remain that way.” I am not gay; but I have lived a joyous, celibate life for Christ. I have been able to give myself to ministry in a way that a married man could not have done. I pray for that same JOY for you! Stay strong in the Lord, my brother in Christ! Do not let others discourage you!

 

[1ke]

I don’t think the courage apostolate is negative from what I know of it.
But I also wonder if you didn’t intend your question for the OP?

Yes, that is who my post was directed to.

 

[Lancer]

Today 6:37 pm
mrld20
Hypocritical message on homosexuality

… Every time I see a document like “Always Our Children” I get encouraged because I know the Church cares for people like me. But then when*** I see ***our holy father say homosexuals are a big threat like global warming I get so hurt and upset because I don’t feel welcome in my own church. …

First…I strongly believe that you were reading a highly distorted/biased version of what the Holy Father actually said…

Second, here is what I found…NY Times vs Pope’s Words [please forgive extended quote…thought it necessary for for context]

***NY Times reported: ***

Pope Benedict criticizes homosexual behavior
Published: Monday, December 22, 2008

VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict said Monday that** saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behaviour was just as important as saving the rainforest from destruction**.

nytimes.com/2008/12/22/world/europe/22iht-23pope.18872459.html

Pope Benedict actually said

ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI
TO THE MEMBERS OF THE ROMAN CURIA
FOR THE TRADITIONAL EXCHANGE OF CHRISTMAS GREETINGS

Clementine Hall
Monday, 22 December 2008

1. First of all there are the words found at the beginning of the Creation account, which speak of the Creator Spirit who sweeps over the face of the abyss, who creates the world and renews it constantly. Faith in the Creator Spirit is an essential part of the Christian creed. The fact that matter has a mathematical structure, is spirit-filled, is the basis of the modern natural sciences.

It is only because matter is structured intelligently that our mind can interpret and actively refashion it. The fact that this intelligible structure comes from the same Creator Spirit who also gave us our own spirit, brings with it both a duty and a responsibility.

Our faith in creation is the ultimate basis of our responsibility for the earth. The earth is not simply our property, which we can exploit according to our interests and desires. Rather, it is a gift of the Creator, who designed its innate order and has thus given us guidelines which we, as stewards of his creation, need to respect. The fact that the earth and the cosmos mirror the Creator Spirit also means that their rational structures which, beyond their mathematical order, become almost tangible in scientific experimentation, also have an inherent ethical orientation.

The Spirit who fashioned them, is more than mathematics – he is Goodness in person who, in and through the language of creation, points out to us the way of an upright life.

Since faith in the Creator is an essential part of the Christian creed, the Church cannot and must not limit herself to passing on to the faithful the message of salvation alone. She has a responsibility towards creation, and must also publicly assert this responsibility. In so doing, she must not only defend earth, water and air as gifts of creation belonging to all. She must also protect man from self-destruction. What is needed is something like a human ecology, correctly understood.

If the Church speaks of the nature of the human being as man and woman, and demands that this order of creation be respected, this is not some antiquated metaphysics. What is involved here is faith in the Creator and a readiness to listen to the “language” of creation. To disregard this would be the self-destruction of man himself, and hence the destruction of God’s own work.

What is often expressed and understood by the term “gender” ultimately ends up being man’s attempt at self-emancipation from creation and the Creator. Man wants to be his own master, and alone – always and exclusively – to determine everything that concerns him. Yet in this way he lives in opposition to the truth, in opposition to the Creator Spirit.

Rain forests deserve indeed to be protected, but no less so does man, as a creature having an innate “message” which does not contradict our freedom, but is instead its very premise.

The great scholastic theologians described marriage, understood as the life-long bond between a man and a woman, as a sacrament of creation, which the Creator himself instituted and which Christ – without modifying the “message” of creation – then made part of the history of his covenant with humanity.

An integral part of the Church proclamation must be a witness to the Creator Spirit present in nature as a whole, and, in a special way, in the human person, created in God’s image.

From this perspective, we should go back to the Encyclical Humanae Vitae: the intention of Pope Paul VI was to defend love against sex as a consumer good, the future against the exclusive claims of the present, and human nature against its manipulation.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2008/december/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20081222_curia-romana_en.html

Lastly…you might want to read…
***CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

---

…by then Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope B-XVI) in 1986
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

Pax Christi

 

[m134e5]

My home diocese has a wonderful outreach program for gay catholics like me. The priests are friendly and it makes me feel welcome in the Church while still remaining faithful to the Church’s teachings.

If the priests you’re talking about are faithful to the Church’s teachings on homosexuality (that the actions are sinful), I suggest you talk with them about this. Also, try to surround yourself with good Catholic friends. I’ve known many people facing this issue, and trying to “figure things out” without the guidance of a spiritual director, a Catholic counselor (if needed), and a good group of faithful Catholic friends has a tendency to lead to confusion and despair.

 

[pepipop]

​

First…I strongly believe that you were reading a highly distorted/biased version of what the Holy Father actually said…

Second, here is what I found…NY Times vs Pope’s Words [please forgive extended quote…thought it necessary for for context]

***NY Times reported: ***

nytimes.com/2008/12/22/world/europe/22iht-23pope.18872459.html

Pope Benedict actually said

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2008/december/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20081222_curia-romana_en.html

Lastly…you might want to read…
***CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

---

…by then Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope B-XVI) in 1986
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

Pax Christi

It never ceases to amaze me the distortion of the Pope’s words by the media and the anti-catholicism thrown out to the general public.

 

[Nita]

​

First…I strongly believe that you were reading a highly distorted/biased version of what the Holy Father actually said…

Second, here is what I found…NY Times vs Pope’s Words [please forgive extended quote…thought it necessary for for context]

***NY Times reported: ***

nytimes.com/2008/12/22/world/europe/22iht-23pope.18872459.html

Pope Benedict actually said

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2008/december/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20081222_curia-romana_en.html

Lastly…you might want to read…
***CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

---

…by then Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope B-XVI) in 1986
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

Pax Christi

Thanks Lancer.

 

[hihiip201]

I have a question:

what if science prove that homosexuality is not a choice but genetic? like: I do not get to choose that I get turned on by woman, and same with gay men I'm sure they are not choosing to get turned on by men, and I know that there are gay men who are truly attracted to other men.


 Just as science has reformed the church's teaching for many years, first we thought that the earth was the center of the universe, then we recognize that we are merely a planet in the solar system. First we thought we actually came from mud and shaped physically by God, then we recognize that evolution is the way we are evolved.


  Don't you guys think that science has been a great help to seeking truth even to Christians? So if God has given us the tool(science) and it says that homosexuality is not a choice, wouldn't it be logical to assume that we have misinterpreted the scriptures as God loves us for who we are and wouldn't create somebody and hate a part of him?

or else it would be an inevitable contradiction in the bible that we are facing, or alternative one can choose to deny what science tells us, but I think in that case it would be blind faith that we are facing as we are not willing to think dynamically according to what science has suggest and reform our beliefs.
I mean, I think some of us might fear that "well if we don't draw a line here then every sin can be justified by misunderstanding of scripture" because of science, but science is not going to overthrow that there's a beginnig to the universe or that Jesus Christ is God. These are principles that science can never overthrow. But science has been a check for the church's teaching for decades and if science has proven that homosexuality is not a choice, I am willing to go back and look at my bible again as I do not believe God contradict himself in his word.

 

[Nita]

I have a question:

what if science prove that homosexuality is not a choice but genetic? like: I do not get to choose that I get turned on by woman, and same with gay men I'm sure they are not choosing to get turned on by men, and I know that there are gay men who are truly attracted to other men..............

.

It would be no different than heterosexual attraction which is genetic. Sexual union is allowed only in marriage between a husband and wife. Celibacy is required for all who are not married – heterosexuals and homosexuals.

 

[Lisa44]

Humans are both flesh and spirit and both have a purpose. The purpose of sex is procreation.
If a human being gets out of the natural order, and uses their spirit for things it was not meant for (devil worship of some sort), or uses their body for things it was not meant for then the body and mind comes into an imbalance or a state of disorder. (not ordered towards our creator: God).

The advise is not to practice homsexuality.
You can have friendship with people of the same sex.
But sex is for procreation. If you want sex get married and raise a family.
Sex without the procreative aspect is taking something and perverting it so that it is used for something different than what it was created for.

Everything goes back to our creator and the purpose he had in creating us. So that we may live according to His will, not our will.

That is the aspect of the religious life. Thy will be done. (not my will).

 

[lutherlic]

​

First…I strongly believe that you were reading a highly distorted/biased version of what the Holy Father actually said…

Second, here is what I found…NY Times vs Pope’s Words [please forgive extended quote…thought it necessary for for context]

***NY Times reported: ***

nytimes.com/2008/12/22/world/europe/22iht-23pope.18872459.html

Pope Benedict actually said

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2008/december/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20081222_curia-romana_en.html

Lastly…you might want to read…
***CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

---

…by then Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope B-XVI) in 1986
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

Pax Christi

Good work Lancer!

The distortion in the mainstream media is to be expected and they should not be trusted. The NYT in particular (Father Zuhlsdorf likes to call them “Hell’s Bible”).

 

[mrld20]

Yeah but why does one Bishop get to say one thing; and another Bishop half way around the world says something else that’s completly opposite.

A Bishop in Ghana says that homosexuals are the antichrist. While Bishop Matthew H. Clark of Rochester has gone so far to conduct masses for gay and lesbian catholics…

I only started becoming a devout Catholic in my later teen years (before I was just kind of apathetic). It’s gotten to the point where I don’t even know my own Church anymore… Why do different Bishops get to say their own thing instead of sticking to one central doctrine or document issued by the Vatican?

 

[wisdomseeker]

I am a 19 year old Catholic with same-sex attractions. I just wanted some clarification on the Church’s teachings on homosexuality.

I am not looking for the Church to accept homosexuality (or any part of it), and I understand that me being gay and catholic means I have to be celibate.

But some times I get so discouraged over the Church’s messages to Catholics like me.

I want to clarify again that I am not looking for the Church to accept any part of homosexuality. I just wish they would clarify their message some times. I’ve gone over every possible document from the Vatican to the USCCB.

Every time I see a document like “Always Our Children” I get encouraged because I know the Church cares for people like me. But then when I see our holy father say homosexuals are a big threat like global warming I get so hurt and upset because I don’t feel welcome in my own church.

When a Bishop stands up and says that discrimination against people with same-sex attractions is wrong I’m so happy because someone has stood up for me. But then when another Bishop says homosexuality is a wound; I feel so let down because they don’t know what people like me go through.

My home diocese has a wonderful outreach program for gay catholics like me. The priests are friendly and it makes me feel welcome in the Church while still remaining faithful to the Church’s teachings.

But then when I hear about the group Courage all I see is a negative message. They make it seem like being gay is some how the worst possible thing that has happened. My diocese’s program is so nice and welcoming but then when it comes to Courage all there that’s there is a negative message.

I’m not looking for the Church to change any teachings; I’m a celibate gay and will always remain that way. But I’m getting really depressed and upset over all the hypocritical messages going around.

I just wish the Church would have a more clarified message. I wish all the Bishop’s would consult each other before blindly spewing out a statement.

It’s getting to the point where I don’t even feel welcome in the Church I’ve grown up in.

If you are living according to Church’s teaching then you should not include yourself when the Church speak against homoxesuals. You should not take it personal. The Church must obey God and speak up against which is evil. Wouldn’t you agree?

 

[Nita]

Yeah but why does one Bishop get to say one thing; and another Bishop half way around the world says something else that’s completly opposite.

A Bishop in Ghana says that homosexuals are the antichrist. While Bishop Matthew H. Clark of Rochester has gone so far to conduct masses for gay and lesbian catholics…

I only started becoming a devout Catholic in my later teen years (before I was just kind of apathetic). It’s gotten to the point where I don’t even know my own Church anymore… Why do different Bishops get to say their own thing instead of sticking to one central doctrine or document issued by the Vatican?

I suppose each age/era has its own challenges. Right now, the challenge for each Catholic is to study the official teaching of the Catholic Church so they can detect error when they hear it from their religious leaders or peers (whether bishops, priests, nuns, teachers, parents, friends, science, …). With the aid of the internet and google it is not all that difficult to search out what the official Church teaching is on any given topic. (Just be sure to look for official Church documents.) And above all, God has guided his Church to put out a new Catechism (about 500 years after the previous one) to aid the members of His Church in these troubled times. For any who do not already have a copy, I would suggest purchasing one and reading it.

The challenges today are not new concepts, but are generally teachings against existing doctrines (that dealt with those challenges previously). And it is not challenges to just a couple doctrines, but to almost all of them. I don’t know how others feel, but I think God held back on allowing this type of across the board apostasy until the means (that is, the internet) for researching the Church’s true teaching were readily available to the ordinary person.

God chose us to be living at this particular point in history. He has a purpose for us when it comes to withstanding and combatting the evils of this era; He will provide the necessary graces.