Hypothetical American Liturgy

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Ite_ad_Ioseph

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On another forum people were discussing the value of the Eastern Rite Churches. Someone mentioned when the Vikings landed in North America, if they would have stayed, in Canada and America they would perhaps have a Mass based on a certain rite from Scandinavia whose name eludes my mind right now. So I began thinking, which usually leads to me writing long, boring posts.
  1. Is the many, localized litugies a good thing, or is a world that is primarily Roman Rite a better idea?
  2. What are your opinions on a possible Viking American liturgy?
    (I didn’t even know the Vikings were Catholic, unless someone has wrong information.)
  3. If I was stuck on a desert island with a bunch of Catholics, without liturgical books and guides, and unconsecrated hosts and I was a bishop(so I would have authority to do so) , do I have permission to create a liturgy like St. John Chrysostom of old? That is , if it had clearly Catholic theology?
    Pax
 
Well I would say that the Anglican Use Liturgy would possibly be a great Mass to be used in the US. If Anglican Use ever was a sui iurus Church.

A scandanavian rite would be cool. I have watched part of a Scandanavian Rite Mass as it was said in the 1200s online. The Mass was performed according to a Missal found from that time period. It was very reverent and cool.

I have always thought that the western church should be split up into several sui jurus churches with patriarchs and differing liturgies much like the eastern church.

For Example there could be a:
Roman Church (Italian and Hispanic Regions[Roman Rite])
Gaulican Church (Germanic and French regions [based on the old Galican Rite Mass and a Ad Orientem Galicanized OF])
Anglican Church (English Speaking regions including US Canada etc.[Anglican Use Liturgy and Sarum Rite Mass])
Scandanavian Church (Scandanavia [Using old Scandanavian Rite Mass and Ad Orientem Scandanavianized OF])
Sub-Saharian Church (In S. Saharan Region [Cardinal Arinze can be in charge of figuring this one out. 😃 ])

OFs of all and EFs of all of them should be fairly similar but still distinct.

Thats what I would like to see, but then again its probably good that I’m not in charge.
 
Ite_ad_Ioseph said:
  1. Is the many, localized litugies a good thing, or is a world that is primarily Roman Rite a better idea?
  2. What are your opinions on a possible Viking American liturgy?
    (I didn’t even know the Vikings were Catholic, unless someone has wrong information.)
  3. If I was stuck on a desert island with a bunch of Catholics, without liturgical books and guides, and unconsecrated hosts and I was a bishop(so I would have authority to do so) , do I have permission to create a liturgy like St. John Chrysostom of old? That is , if it had clearly Catholic theology?
    Pax
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  1. I can see benefits to both situations. Local flavour (when valid and licit) can make for a more personal Mass, but a single Rite over a larger area, as we have now, can foster a greater sense of community, and familiarity when visiting another region.
  2. I would be in favour of it.
  3. Come on now! If you were a bishop, you’d probably have the entire thing memorized 😉 😛 Hypothetically, I would think that you would be permitted to create a liturgy. Although you might want to stick as close as your memory would allow… 😉
 
Ite_ad_Ioseph said:
  1. Is the many, localized litugies a good thing, or is a world that is primarily Roman Rite a better idea?
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I would certainly find it more interesting to have a variety, although there are downsides in travellers not being comfortable with the local mass, and liturgy students would have to memorize many more facts and details for their tests.
  1. What are your opinions on a possible Viking American liturgy? (I didn’t even know the Vikings were Catholic, unless someone has wrong information.)
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That would be interesting. Pretty much EVERYONE in Northern and Western Europe was Catholic before the Reformation.
  1. If I was stuck on a desert island with a bunch of Catholics, without liturgical books and guides, and unconsecrated hosts and I was a bishop(so I would have authority to do so) , do I have permission to create a liturgy like St. John Chrysostom of old? That is , if it had clearly Catholic theology?Pax
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As another poster said, if you are a bishop let’s hope that you can remember the prayers. But certainly in the old days the liturgy was not set in stone. I would guess that tradition was highly valued and so bishops and priests probably deviated little from those who went before them, but on occasion probably in response to differences between liturgies from one town to another, a new written liturgy would be formalized.

To more directly answer your question, if you are cut off from the world and have no one to consult with, and no one to overrule you, you are the head of the Church. You should follow the existing rules unless you determine there is a compelling reason to amend or change some practice. So it goes until such time as Kevin Costner comes along in his Waterworld catamaran with a letter from the Pope telling you to use coconut shell kneelers when distributing communion.
 
Does anyone know of any Scandinavian Rite liturgy? I know one existed, I don’t remember its name.
Pax
 
Ite_ad_Ioseph said:
Does anyone know of any Scandinavian Rite liturgy? I know one existed, I don’t remember its name.
Pax
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To the best of my knowledge there was no specific liturgy that was unique to the Scandinavian regions. The Sarum and Gallican liturgies were both celebrated there and it was the Sarum that formed the basis of the early Lutheran liturgies in that region.

To answer your original questions, the early Church had regional liturgies that slowly merged into several “standards.” For the West we have the Leonine sacramentary and, eventually, the Roman sacramentary that formed the basic Latin Mass, for the East we have the Divine Liturgy of St. James that was the basis for the Liturgies of St. Basil, St. John Chrysostom in the Byzantine tradition and the Divine Liturgy of St. Mark in the Alexandrian tradition. The Syrian liturgies probably had their origins in the Anaphora of Addi and Mari with influence from the Divine Liturgy of St. Mark.

Even today in the East there are different liturgies depending on the local tradition (Armenian, Byzantine, Chaldean, Coptic or Syrian).

And, no, as a bishop you would not have the authority to create your own liturgy but, instead, would be bound to follow your own tradition. In the Catholic Church liturgy (whether Eastern or Western) is controlled by Rome.

Deacon Ed
 
Thank you, Deacon. Say you were in prison, however, and you were smuggled unconsecrated hosts. How do you consecrate them without liturgical books? Do you have to memorize the Canon?
Pax
 
Ite_ad_Ioseph said:
  1. Is the many, localized liturgies a good thing, or is a world that is primarily Roman Rite a better idea?
The entire Liturgy is the LATIN RITE. It is the Novus Ordo Mass. Countries have permission to use the language of the people, but it is still the same Mass the world over.
  1. What are your opinions on a possible Viking American liturgy?
    (I didn’t even know the Vikings were Catholic, unless someone has wrong information.)
No such thing.
  1. If I was stuck on a desert island with a bunch of Catholics, without liturgical books and guides, and unconsecrated hosts and I was a bishop(so I would have authority to do so) , do I have permission to create a liturgy like St. John Chrysostom of old? That is , if it had clearly Catholic theology?
    Pax
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No, not that I am personally aware of. But I never thought of an event like that ever happening. Anybody out there have any ideas??
 
If there were to be such a thing as a Viking liturgy I would be there in a heartbeat - the idea is just cool beyond words.
 
Ite_ad_Ioseph said:
Thank you, Deacon. Say you were in prison, however, and you were smuggled unconsecrated hosts. How do you consecrate them without liturgical books? Do you have to memorize the Canon?
Pax
Click to expand...
Reports we have from priests in those situations (usually using whatever bread was available) they simply used the minimum of “this is my body” and “this is my blood” if wine were available. This would be supplemented by whatever prayers and readings could be remembered. Most priests actually have most of the Mass memorized – after all, they say Mass nearly every day.

Deacon Ed
 
I wonder if the Vikings used the Uppsala Rite. It could have been the liturgy of the Church in the Americas. In that case, if Spain and Portugal still used the Mozarabic Rite, that would have been the norm in Mexico and South America.
Pax
 
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