Hypothetical Question: What will you do if the Catholic Church accepts gay "marriage"?

[cornucopian1984]

I don’t mean to hurt anyone by asking this. The way I see it is, it is most likely going to happen. The gay mafia is actively working on making sure it will happen. Most Catholics, even ones that go to Church accept this. We are already seeing increasing hostility to anyone who says that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

The Catholic Church is their ultimate goal. It is against everything they want and they will relish only if they destroy her.

George Soros is funding “progressive Christianity”:
theblaze.com/stories/2011/06/15/why-is-atheist-george-soros-giving-money-to-a-faith-project/

 

[styrgwillidar]

Please define ‘accept’.

If you mean, will the Catholic Church ever perform and recognize marriages between same sex couples as morally acceptable- then I’ll probably become a Hindu or perhaps Buddhist or an atheist.

The Church can not change doctrine, if it does than that contradicts not just Catholicism but all of christianity as we would no longer have any assurance of the validity of the authority of the church, of any of the teaching or the scriptural nature of the Bible.

 

[mommamaree]

Here is what I would do:

Remain faithful to the ancient teachings of the Church.
Live a life of penance and reparation.
Tell the Truth, if God places opportunities before me to do so.
Raise my children to know what the Bible and the Church’s teachings have always taught, before the modern break.
Be charitable and treat all human beings with respect, even if I must correct or admonish. If I must do those things, I will pray God will help me do so with gentleness and humility and love in my heart for them.
Accept martyrdom, if God asks it of me.
And at the advice of St. Padre Pio, I will do my best to “Pray, hope and don’t worry”.

These are what I would do if the bishops attempted to abandon any of the moral teachings of the Church, whether same-sex marriage, or other offenses against marriage, or approving contraception, etc. We already have many bishops approving such things, so it is not too far a stretch, in my mind, for the unfaithful bishops to attempt a runaround to undermine Church teaching. But all I can do is pray and trust in Jesus.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

I don’t mean to hurt anyone by asking this. The way I see it is, it is most likely going to happen. The gay mafia is actively working on making sure it will happen. Most Catholics, even ones that go to Church accept this. We are already seeing increasing hostility to anyone who says that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

The Catholic Church is their ultimate goal. It is against everything they want and they will relish only if they destroy her.

George Soros is funding “progressive Christianity”:
theblaze.com/stories/2011/06/15/why-is-atheist-george-soros-giving-money-to-a-faith-project/

Not possible. The Church cannot accept gay “marriage” because there is no such thing and never can be.

Most Catholics, even ones that go to Church accept this.

I’m skeptical of this claim. If it is true, then they misunderstand the basics about what constitutes a marriage and are ignorant of their own Church’s teaching. But regardless, right and wrong are not decided by majority rule. It is not within the Church’s power to change the nature of marriage.

 

[cornucopian1984]

Not possible. The Church cannot accept gay “marriage” because there is no such thing and never can be.

I’m skeptical of this claim. If it is true, then they misunderstand the basics about what constitutes a marriage and are ignorant of their own Church’s teaching. But regardless, right and wrong are not decided by majority rule. It is not within the Church’s power to change the nature of marriage.

I am just saying the Church will more or less look like any other Protestant denomination. They have actively rejected the Bible. We have bishops who support it. It’s only a matter of time we have a liberal pope who wants to make the Church “inclusive”

 

[EnglishTeacher]

These are what I would do if the bishops attempted to abandon any of the moral teachings of the Church, whether same-sex marriage, or other offenses against marriage, or approving contraception, etc. **We already have many bishops approving such things, so it is not too far a stretch, in my mind, for the unfaithful bishops to attempt a runaround to undermine Church teaching. **But all I can do is pray and trust in Jesus.

This is true. If the Church is the Church, it can never change its teaching on marriage, which of course is both a sacrament and a natural institution. I agree with you, though, that it is possible for unfaithful clergy, including the bishops, to attempt to undermine church teaching, which will sow confusion everywhere. The media would no doubt grab the story and run with it (and further distort the facts), as it has been doing all along.

I also agree with you that we need to continue to pray and trust in God. The Church is under heavy attack, both within and without. The kind of attack that comes from within is unfortunately much sneakier and confuses everyone.

 

[Michael1978]

I am just saying the Church will more or less look like any other Protestant denomination. They have actively rejected the Bible. We have bishops who support it. It’s only a matter of time we have a liberal pope who wants to make the Church “inclusive”

Not possible. “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Matthew 16:18. Two thousand years later, bad popes, bad priests, scandals, liberal bishops, kings, emperors, corrupt society, etc., and the words of our Lord are as true today as they were when he uttered them.

Take heart, “The grass is withered, and the flower is fallen: but the word of our Lord endureth forever.” Isaiah 40:8

 

[styrgwillidar]

…

But all I can do is pray and trust in Jesus.

Yes, and His assurance that He gave to Peter:

"k And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19l I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.* Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

If the Church abandons it’s teaching, than Christ’s assurance was false, and by extension nothing else of christianity can be relied upon- particularly the Church having had any legitimate authority to begin with. It’s doctrine has not changed since Christ established it.

 

[mommamaree]

Yes, and His assurance that He gave to Peter:

"k And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19l I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.* Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

If the Church abandons it’s teaching, than Christ’s assurance was false, and by extension nothing else of christianity can be relied upon- particularly the Church having had any legitimate authority to begin with. It’s doctrine has not changed since Christ established it.

Yes, but I spoke of a runaround that unfaithful bishops might attempt to undermine the teaching that they are prevented from changing. It has happened in the past and could very well happen again. That is a frightful possibility, but we would still be able to remain faithful and trusting.

 

[EasterJoy]

Look at what happened to the Anglicans when their denomination went through this: Some parishes would not budge. They refused to accept the change in teaching. Some are now in the Catholic Church under the Anglican Use.

Based on that precedent, I’d stick with the part of the Church in the United States that remained faithful. Even in Oregon, there will be some, but if not, I’d move to where a faithful church could be found. I cannot say what every bishop and archbishop in Oregon will teach for the rest of time, because–Heaven forbid this ever happen!–bishops can stray, but I believe that the Supreme Pontiff will always lead that part of the Church that remains faithful.

If a Bishop of Rome were to teach such a thing, so obviously in violation of all that has been infallibly taught by his predecessors? I will cross that bridge if I ever come to it. I don’t believe it will ever happen–not in my lifetime, and not even before the Lord comes back.

 

[BenjaminJohn]

I would come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church was not the Catholic Church at all and would assume that that meant that the Orthodox were right all alone. But of course that will never happen.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I would realize I was in a hypothetical fantasy.

If one does not realize that it is impossible for the Church to say there is such a thing as same sex marriage, then one does not understand the Church. It’s important to recognize this in order to understand what the Church is.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Yes, but I spoke of a runaround that unfaithful bishops might attempt to undermine the teaching that they are prevented from changing. It has happened in the past and could very well happen again. That is a frightful possibility, but we would still be able to remain faithful and trusting.

I’m interpreting the OP’s question to mean not just some bishops in the US, but the world-wide Church, i.e. with the Pope’s concurrence and assent. The Catholic Church as opposed to a break-away faction.

 

[gracepoole]

I’ve always appreciated the old Catholic joke about changes in the Church, which states that something could “never” happen in the Church until it does, at which time the faithful are told, “As the Church has always taught…”

But really, perhaps the Church might relax its focus on secular same-sex marriage – but I don’t expect to see same-sex marriage approved of by the Church and I don’t expect to see sacramental same-sex marriage. If I’m wrong, I can’t wait to see the doctrinal explanation that would be given.

 

[mommamaree]

I’m interpreting the OP’s question to mean not just some bishops in the US, but the world-wide Church, i.e. with the Pope’s concurrence and assent. The Catholic Church as opposed to a break-away faction.

I am not talking about US bishops. Bishops all over the world are currently speaking out publicly AGAINST Church teaching. And it has happened before that bishops formally dissent and are not removed, but continue to promote disorder and disunity through their wayward leadership.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

After reading the OP and the replies above, My first inclination was to join those who say “It will never happen”. (I believe that).

However I had a thought that troubled me.

Suppose the Supreme Court ruled against states that ban gay marriage and same sex marriage became the law of the land. Now what would the Church do?

Could a gay Catholic couple bring suit against the Church for refusing to perform a marriage ceremony.

Could gay activists demand that the Church cease teaching that same sex marriage is wrong and the Catechism should be changed to reflect that?

Could gay parents bring suit against Catholic schools for teaching that their marriage was not acceptable?

Please understand I do not mean to hijack this thread. These were questions that hit me while on this subject.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’ve always appreciated the old Catholic joke about changes in the Church, which states that something could “never” happen in the Church until it does, at which time the faithful are told, “As the Church has always taught…”

But really, perhaps the Church might relax its focus on secular same-sex marriage – but I don’t expect to see same-sex marriage approved of by the Church and I don’t expect to see sacramental same-sex marriage. If I’m wrong, I can’t wait to see the doctrinal explanation that would be given.

What do you mean by “relax its focus”?

This is actually what concerns me the most: that is, that the individual pastors will be so anxious to avoid offending people in inherently invalid marriages that are nevertheless recognized by civil law that they will avoid teaching that these are inherently invalid and impossible marriages. A great deal of confusion and misinformation can be spread by that well-meant but damaging omission of truth.

 

[EasterJoy]

After reading the OP and the replies above, My first inclination was to join those who say “It will never happen”. (I believe that).

However I had a thought that troubled me.

Suppose the Supreme Court ruled against states that ban gay marriage and same sex marriage became the law of the land. Now what would the Church do?

Could a gay Catholic couple bring suit against the Church for refusing to perform a marriage ceremony.

Could gay activists demand that the Church cease teaching that same sex marriage is wrong and the Catechism should be changed to reflect that?

Could gay parents bring suit against Catholic schools for teaching that their marriage was not acceptable?

Please understand I do not mean to hijack this thread. These were questions that hit me while on this subject.

The Church already has the right to deny marriage to those who have divorced and want to marry in the Church. The Church has the right to teach that it is impossible to dissolve a valid marriage, and parents who marry a second time even though their first spouse lives cannot take the Church to court to force the Church to teach differently. These rights are in the Second Amendment, as part of our right to free religion and freedom of speech. Not all countries have that, but we do.

 

[JRKH]

I don’t mean to hurt anyone by asking this. The way I see it is, it is most likely going to happen. The gay mafia is actively working on making sure it will happen. Most Catholics, even ones that go to Church accept this. We are already seeing increasing hostility to anyone who says that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

The Catholic Church is their ultimate goal. It is against everything they want and they will relish only if they destroy her.

George Soros is funding “progressive Christianity”:
theblaze.com/stories/2011/06/15/why-is-atheist-george-soros-giving-money-to-a-faith-project/

Ask me when it happens……the fact is that it simply cannot occur.

Those who think that it might be possible are deluding themselves. They seem to think that The Church’s Moral teaching is a set of quasi-independent rules that can be simply changed. This is not the case. The teaching of the Church is a beautiful tapestry of interrelated principles and the “rules” that people see (and sometimes don’t like) are but one strand of that tapestry.

Just as a brief example relating to this subject…
The Church teaches that sex is reserved for marriage and it’s purpose is pro-creation. Two people of the same sex cannot engage in the sex act - period. They can engage in all sorts of activities of a sexual nature, but they cannot end the act in a manner fitting with the Church’s definition.
So - in order for the Church to accept homosexual marriage, they would have to first change the teaching on the purpose of sexual activities.

Now understand that the above is just the briefest example of just one of the interlocking strands Church teaching that simply make it impossible for the Church to ever accept gay marriage.

Peace
James

 

[gracepoole]

What do you mean by “relax its focus”?

This is actually what concerns me the most: that is, that the individual pastors will be so anxious to avoid offending people in inherently invalid marriages that are nevertheless recognized by civil law that they will avoid teaching that these are inherently invalid and impossible marriages. A great deal of confusion and misinformation can be spread by that well-meant but damaging omission of truth.

I mean simply that there is sacramental marriage (which, as I’ve stated, I don’t think will be permitted for same-sex individuals anytime soon) and there is secular marriage. I’m not speaking of individual pastors relaxing the Catholic stance on this issue. I’m speaking of the amounts of money being spent by the Church to block secular same-sex marriage. I could see that ending or dissipating – at least I could see that before I could see sacramental same-sex marriage.