Hysterectomy

[jenniferlj77]

I am currently pregnant and was told that I should not get pregnant again. If i were to get pregnant I could face serious complications including death. I understand that NFP is 99.9% accurate, however I also realize that I am not 99.9% accurate. Would it be permissible for me to get a hysterectomy a the time of the birth of my child 1. If I am bleeding severely and extraordinary means would be needed to perserve my uterus, 2. if I know that I will not be strong enough to pratice NFP for the next 15 years of my life and a pregnancy could result in the need for an abortion in order to preserve my health for my current 4 children?

 

[baltobetsy]

Well, for number 1, there would have to be a good definition of extraordinary means, and it would have to be burdensome for you.

Number 2 is direct sterilization, which is never permitted, no matter the reason.

Betsy

 

[jenniferlj77]

So last time I had a c-section, in order to perserve my uterus, I was given 2 units of blood and had to have a balloon placed inside my Uterus for hours. I do not want to do that again, it was very taxing on my body losing all that blood. Is that wrong of me?

 

[1ke]

I am currently pregnant and was told that I should not get pregnant again. If i were to get pregnant I could face serious complications including death. I understand that NFP is 99.9% accurate, however I also realize that I am not 99.9% accurate.

Conservative-- meaning post ovulatory-- NFP usage is extremely reliable. There are a number of regular posters on this forum who have used NFP for over 10 years to avoid pregnancy due to life-threatening illnesses. And, moreover, ovulation monitors are now being incorporated into some NFP methods (for example Marquette) giving even more information.

Would it be permissible for me to get a hysterectomy a the time of the birth of my child 1. If I am bleeding severely and extraordinary means would be needed to perserve my uterus,

If your uterus is damaged and cannot be repaired or is in danger of or actually hemorrhaging and your doctor diagnoses the need for a hysterectomy, certainly it is morally permissible to remove it.

1. if I know that I will not be strong enough to pratice NFP for the next 15 years of my life and a pregnancy could result in the need for an abortion in order to preserve my health for my current 4 children?

Absolutely not.

Sterilization for the purpose of contraception is always gravely immoral.

Moreover, the idea that you would contemplate killing your child is, frankly, shocking. There is never a need for an abortion. One can never morally choose to kill a child.

Mortally sinning against God is never an acceptable thing to do based on being scared by your doctor. And certainly not while perfectly reasonable alternatives exist.

Use NFP responsibly and faithfully. And, no excuses about how you “can’t” be strong enough to practice NFP. You’re a grown woman. Act like one. You certainly can be responsible, especially when motivated by such a serious reason to use NFP carefully and accurately.

Continue to work with your doctor-- your situation might change, you never know. Medicine and technology continue to advance. Also, if you decided some day to become pregnant again, there are many ways the doctor can help manage the pregnancy to avoid complications.

Look I know you are probably scared by this. But the fact that you “could” have complication, including death, may be highly over stated by your doctor. I had foot surgery, and one of the possible complications I had to acknowledge was death. That’s pretty standard in the liability/malpractice world to state all sorts of dire consequences to things. So, what I’m saying is you need to really dig in regarding what your situation might be, what the treatments are, how a doctor could manage a high risk pregnancy, etc. Discuss it with your doctor, talk to a high risk specialist, and most importantly study up on the various methods of NFP to see which one is right ofr you.

Don’t just hear the words “might” and “could” and jump straight to the conclusion that you cannot handle this in a moral way.

 

[1ke]

So last time I had a c-section, in order to perserve my uterus, I was given 2 units of blood and had to have a balloon placed inside my Uterus for hours. I do not want to do that again, it was very taxing on my body losing all that blood. Is that wrong of me?

Certainly not. If the doctor’s opinion is that the uterus should come out because it’s damaged then out it can come. If the doctor says “it should come out, but I can try to save it” you are not under the obligation to take extraordinary measures to save it. If the doctor makes no mention that it ‘should come out’ then apparently the doctor believes it is fine where it is or the effort to repair is not extraordinary.

And if you are knocked out during this, give your doctor advanced instructions: ordinary measures, ok; extraordinary measures, not ok; and if it needs to come out, take it out.

 

[Ron_Conte]

So last time I had a c-section, in order to perserve my uterus, I was given 2 units of blood and had to have a balloon placed inside my Uterus for hours. I do not want to do that again, it was very taxing on my body losing all that blood. Is that wrong of me?

An extraordinary circumstance is not needed in order to have a hysterectomy. If there are serious medical reasons, then it would be moral to have the hysterectomy. In your case, the reason that you describe is certainly sufficient for a hysterectomy to be moral.

But I cannot give you medical advice as to whether or not you should, from a medical point of view, have that procedure.

 

[dusza]

I hope you are open to the possibility of medical science improving in the near future, where having more children may no longer be dangerous for you. They’re making leaps and bounds in medicine, and sometimes doctors are just wrong.

Pray to St. Gianna Beretta Molla for guidance.

 

[jenniferlj77]

“Moreover, the idea that you would contemplate killing your child is, frankly, shocking. There is never a need for an abortion. One can never morally choose to kill a child.”

Have you ever heard of saint Gianna Beretta Molla? She had evey right, under catholic teachings to choose a treatment in order to save herself that would have cost the life of her unborn child. There COULD BE a “case” for which saving a mother’s life while pregnant would result in her unborn child’s life being ended. I’m not contemplating killing my child, however, I may be put in the situation where I have to choose weather to save myself, with the result being, my child would lose his/her life. Obviously, you misunderstood me.

My risks are not even close to your risks of having foot surgery. I have had 4 c-sections, uterine infection, asherman’s, placenta previa, placenta accretia, succuriant placenta lobe, 4 D&C’s and pre-eclampsia. My risks are VERY real!

These problems are not avoidable. I cannot be given a pill that will revive my uterus. Trust me if I could, I would and I would go on to have as many children as possible. This is a struggle for me and a burden that I do not want. I’m not one of those people saying that I’ve had a boy and a girl and I want to be done so I’m using some lame “chance of death” excuse to get out of having to do nfp. My dream has always been to have a huge family and raise it how God intends. This was not my dream and for you to imply that I can just will my problems away with he help of a Dr. is insulting. I am seeing a high risk Dr., they are called Periontologists, and trust me I have done my research. I am very well aware of the NFP methods available and have practiced them. I also have gone a year without having a period. Has that ever happened to you?

I am here for support in order to do the morally right thing, not to get lectured without compassion. If you plan on being a loving catholic who wants to help me have the courage and fortitude to make the right decision, I am more than willing to listen. However, I will not be belittled or judged by someone who preaches, but doesn’t follow.

 

[jenniferlj77]

An extraordinary circumstance is not needed in order to have a hysterectomy. If there are serious medical reasons, then it would be moral to have the hysterectomy. In your case, the reason that you describe is certainly sufficient for a hysterectomy to be moral.

But I cannot give you medical advice as to whether or not you should, from a medical point of view, have that procedure.

Thanks Ron. I think that’s what I’m struggling with. I’m afraid that the medical advice that I will receive will be more liberal. A Dr. can easily say that a hysterectomy is needed if you have even a small bleed. At what point is it considered to be a “serious medical condition” to God though?

 

[OraLabora]

I hope you are open to the possibility of medical science improving in the near future, where having more children may no longer be dangerous for you. They’re making leaps and bounds in medicine, and sometimes doctors are just wrong.

Pray to St. Gianna Beretta Molla for guidance.

Why on earth would you say this and place such a burden of guilt on the OP? I think she has enough to worry about.

This is not at all charitable.

 

[jenniferlj77]

I hope you are open to the possibility of medical science improving in the near future, where having more children may no longer be dangerous for you. They’re making leaps and bounds in medicine, and sometimes doctors are just wrong.

Pray to St. Gianna Beretta Molla for guidance.

Dusza,

Thank you for the optimism. However, I don’t see uterus transplants in the near future I wish that the Dr. were just wrong, but I have lived through so many complications that it’s just a matter of to what extent thy will happn with each pregnancy. I just had a friend who coded on the table during a c-section because it was her 6th C-section and her Uterus was so thinned out she literally bled to death. I already know that my uterus is in horrible condition, when will it fail me like hers did. My chances are much greater than hers ever were.

BTW, I love St. Gianna Beretta Molla and could only hope that I would have the courage that she had.

 

[dusza]

Why on earth would you say this and place such a burden of guilt on the OP? I think she has enough to worry about.

This is not at all charitable.

She can make that call. Thank you for your judgment on my virtue.

 

[jenniferlj77]

Why on earth would you say this and place such a burden of guilt on the OP? I think she has enough to worry about.

This is not at all charitable.

OraLabora: Thank you so much for being compassionate. I really want to do what’s right. I think that so many times it’s easy to judge someone, when you have not been in their shoes. I can’t tell you how much it means to me to have sisters and brothers in christ help me to come to the correct moral end through love and understanding.

 

[RHC]

Hi, Jenniferlj77!

I was thinking that you might consider consulting the National Catholic Bioethics Center. I know the apologists in the Ask an Apologist forum have recommended contacting the center for guidance with complex medical issues. They may be able to help guide you more effectively, and they do free consultations.

I will pray for a healthy pregnancy for you and a safe delivery.

 

[tjm190]

All I’ll say on NFP is you should look places besides these forums if you want reliable information on the effectiveness of NFP.

Also- At present your uterus is incapable of doing its job (proving a safe environment for fetal development) and may cause you grave harm. Generally, hysterectomies/vasectomies are condemned not because they alter the sex act (since they don’t) but rather because they destroy healthy organs. Your womb is quite the opposite.

It would be quite possible to argue that this does not constitute direct sterilization, but rather the removal of a malfunctioning organ with no known means of repair.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Thanks Ron. I think that’s what I’m struggling with. I’m afraid that the medical advice that I will receive will be more liberal. A Dr. can easily say that a hysterectomy is needed if you have even a small bleed. At what point is it considered to be a “serious medical condition” to God though?

My answers below concern only the morality of a hysterectomy, and should not be viewed as medical advice.

The reason need only be proportionate to the situation; you do not need a particularly grave reason. What you have described as your reason far exceeds the minimum proportionate reason needed. The blood loss, pain, medical disorders, and consequent risk to your health (based on your posts above) are more than sufficient to morally justify a hysterectomy (but again, I am not saying that this is medically the right solution, only that it is moral).

A hysterectomy unfortunately results in sterility, however, if the reason for gettng the operation has greater moral weight than the loss of fertility and the risk of the operation, then it is moral. Examples of reasons that would have sufficient weight, include pain that would be difficult to treat, or bleeding that would be difficult to treat, or any risk to the life of the woman, or the risk of future medical disorders and complications, or any medical concerns of substantial risk to health or life.

In order for any act to be moral, you must have three things:

1. good intention, such as to preserve your health
2. a morally good act (i.e. the act cannot be intrinsically evil) – a hysterectomy to treat a medical condition is a morally good act, it is not intrinsically evil.
3. the reasonably anticipated bad consequences must not outweigh the reasonably anticipated good consequences

The third condition can be difficult to judge. You can talk with your physician about the risks to health if you do not get a hysterectomy. If the risks are significant, then the procedure is moral (but not necessarily the best medical opition).

 

[1ke]

“Moreover, the idea that you would contemplate killing your child is, frankly, shocking. There is never a need for an abortion. One can never morally choose to kill a child.”

Have you ever heard of saint Gianna Beretta Molla? She had evey right, under catholic teachings to choose a treatment in order to save herself that would have cost the life of her unborn child. There COULD BE a “case” for which saving a mother’s life while pregnant would result in her unborn child’s life being ended. I’m not contemplating killing my child, however, I may be put in the situation where I have to choose weather to save myself, with the result being, my child would lose his/her life. Obviously, you misunderstood me.

I didn’t misunderstand what you said. You said you might “need” an abortion.

But, your further explanation tells me you didn’t mean that you would need an abortion, but rather than you were speaking of a medical treatment that would have the unintended and unavoidable loss of life of the child. That isn’t an abortion.

Direct abortion is always a moral evil. A legitmate medical procedure to do something else that results in the death of the child is not an abortion. The doctor in any such situation is called to *try *to save both.

My risks are not even close to your risks of having foot surgery. I have had 4 c-sections, uterine infection, asherman’s, placenta previa, placenta accretia, succuriant placenta lobe, 4 D&C’s and pre-eclampsia. My risks are VERY real!

You’ve been through a lot.

I didn’t state your risks weren’t real, rather that sometimes doctors overstate them. (That was rhetorical, BTW, not asking you to post all your personal details).

for you to imply that I can just will my problems away with he help of a Dr. is insulting.

I didn’t say that. I answered based on the information that you gave. And, you were general, not specific. There have been people post on here before that they had a “dire” situation where pregnancy would kill them, and when probed more it was high blood pressure or gestational diabetes, placenta previa, or a number of other serious but treatable, manageable things. That’s why I said to *dig in *with the doctor, I did not say ignore the doctor. Neither did I say that your problems were trivial-- how could I when you didn’t state what they were?

I am here for support in order to do the morally right thing, not to get lectured without compassion. If you plan on being a loving catholic who wants to help me have the courage and fortitude to make the right decision, I am more than willing to listen. However, I will not be belittled or judged by someone who preaches, but doesn’t follow.

I am sorry if you felt attacked or insulted or that your problems were being trivialized.

The internet is a difficult medium. Things can come across wrong, in both directions. And, we have only what you post to go on. Situations such as yours are complicated medically, but morally it’s pretty straight forward. A hysterectomy for medical reasons is fine. A hysterectomy to *prevent *a future pregnancy is not. NFP can and does work, and yes, it does require diligence. Look at Marquette, which combines Creighton and a fertility monitor.

 

[anode]

"…

My risks are not even close to your risks of having foot surgery. I have had 4 c-sections, uterine infection, asherman’s, placenta previa, placenta accreta, succurient placenta lobe, 4 D&C’s and pre-eclampsia. My risks are VERY real!..

Your uterus is exhausted and sick. It–and you–should get out of the baby-making business. Any other organ so sick would have been removed (if possible) long ago. If you can’t get sterilized, then get a hysterectomy.

 

[Julianna]

jennifer…

You asked for advice. Here it is. Get a hysterectomy. At the age of 31…thinking I was pregnant…instead I had a fibriod the size of a mini basketball. After having an appendectomy in my sixth month of pregnancy with my son in July of 83…a c section with him in October (he was placenta previa) another C section in July of 85…my doctor suggested that is it for me. When my children were 6 and 4, I thought I was pregnant again. I was not.

It wasn’t rocket science when the doctor told me, yes i can removed the fibriod from the uterus, however, it will come back…perhaps not as symetrical as this one…but with fingers (he called it that) which would wrap around other organs.

I made the appointment and had a hysterectomy. I was working at a Catholic School at the time and there were those that said “You won’t feel like a woman anymore…you won’t want to have sex…you’ll grow a mustache”. All not true. Actually the sex is better and I feel at 52…every bit of a woman. To take a risk with an innocent life because “someone” on a message board might think it’s a sin…because I choose to be martyr…sure wouldn’t help the 2 children who need their mother heathly and alive.

 

[1ke]

To take a risk with an innocent life because “someone” on a message board might think it’s a sin…

There is no “might” about it. Direct sterilization (i.e. getting a hysterectomy to prevent a future pregnancy) is a mortal sin against the sixth commandment. It’s not an opinion.

A hysterectomy for a reason *other than *direct sterlization is not a mortal sin, or a sin at all. Also Church teaching, not an opinion.