I’m not sure where to put this question, but it’s a could it ever happen thread(m)

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There was a time that the Church taught that unbaptized babies went to limbo and then through a fuller understanding they now say they may actually go to heaven.

I think there was also a time where the Church taught that all unbaptized adults went to Hell but now they say if they desired baptism at the end of life(and maybe only they and God know this) but didn’t receive it they may go to Heaven.

There was a time that the Church said you only got one confession where you needed to perform often year or more long penances before being reconciled to the Church and if you committed a mortal sin you were refused another confession and excommunicated from the Church.

So how can we be 100% sure that the Church won’t one day say that we have come to a fuller understanding of what marriage is. Something along the lines of a commitment between two adults that pledge to spend their life together in a loving committed relationship raising children that of course could be adopted etc.

I stand by what we are taught in our Faith through the Church and tell others when asked that it could never change. That it is a doctrine of the Church that marriage is between one man and one woman, that all sexual acts must be not only unitive but open to life, and that acting on same sex attraction is considered intrinsically evil.

But, I admit, sometimes when I hear the comments of Pope Francis (yes, many taken out of context, but not all) I worry that the Church could shift and that it could somehow say they’ve come to a fuller understanding of God and His people.

I believe that the now overwhelming acceptance in society and the lack of a really clear direction from some Church leaders on this is doing great harm to our children. They are being led astray and our society is heading to a point where many will end up living a gay lifestyle. Just like how co-habitating, multiple partners, abortion high divorce rates is all the norm now and according to polls most in the Church don’t think twice about these things.

We are all born with the ability to have impure thoughts and ideas, and so it’s certainly not uncommon for even straight young people to have impure thoughts towards a member of the same sex, but now instead of repressing them as such they will act on them as normal and healthy. At every turn now those thoughts are encouraged and it just breaks my heart for these lost souls.

I don’t worry about this, because I don’t love homosexuals, or because I”m a homophobe or all the other things that people may call me. I worry because it would end my Faith that the Church is the One Holy Apostolic Church that is unchangeable and infallibly led by the Apostle’s successors through the Holy Spirit.

Please be kind. I just feel distressed by what is happening out there. I still have young children and it’s hard to not be concerned. I know God’s in control and my job is to just teach and live the Faith out in front of my children, but I worry so much that the Church is not fully supporting us by sending watered down, often times mixed messages, through liberal priests etc.
 
Re: unbaptized babies: the Church has always taught that we do not actually know. Limbo was just a theory; the current idea they go to Heaven is also just a theory. Personally, I think Limbo fits in better with what we do know…

Re: unbaptized adults: the Baptism of Desire has also long been taught, iirc since the time of the martyrs when some might be killed while awaiting baptism. Consider too the Good Thief…

So I wouldn’t worry if I were you. Just keep praying for the Pope and our bishops!
 
I may not be Catholic, but learning a little about how Catholic teaching is defined, through encyclicals, ordinary/extraordinary magisterium, etc., I can confidently say that at least from how the church functions, you do not have to worry about this. It is impossible within Catholic teaching for doctrines to be changed once already defined, and non of those examples fit the criteria of being solemnly defined teaching (hence they can change with time).

For example, limbo is just theological speculation that Catholics are free to believe in in good standing, but nevertheless is not a doctrine that is enforced as a belief necessary for a Catholic.

The all going to hell as far as I know was from St. Augustine (massa damnata). Even though many believed it for many centuries in the West, it is nevertheless not a doctrine. The view of how many are saved have always been a continuously changing belief amongst the Theologians, and is an interesting area of study.

With penances, this is in the area of discipline and pastoral council. In the Eastern churches, how penances have applied have also changed. For example, we have a view of ekonomia, that canons/penances are not strictly adhered to but interpreted within context of the individual to best lead that person to repentance and salvation at the discernment of the spiritual father. And this has nothing to do with doctrine as I’ve said before.

I am not in a position to judge whether the magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church is protected by the Holy Spirit (since I’m not Catholic, and believe the Eastern Orthodox church is protected by the Holy Spirit), but even from a secular/historical point of view, I am confident that the teaching of marriage will never change based on how the Catholic church functions and operates in its magisterial teaching.
 
There was a time that the Church taught that unbaptized babies went to limbo and then through a fuller understanding they now say they may actually go to heaven.

I think there was also a time where the Church taught that all unbaptized adults went to Hell but now they say if they desired baptism at the end of life(and maybe only they and God know this) but didn’t receive it they may go to Heaven.

There was a time that the Church said you only got one confession where you needed to perform often year or more long penances before being reconciled to the Church and if you committed a mortal sin you were refused another confession and excommunicated from the Church.

So how can we be 100% sure that the Church won’t one day say that we have come to a fuller understanding of what marriage is. Something along the lines of a commitment between two adults that pledge to spend their life together in a loving committed relationship raising children that of course could be adopted etc.

I stand by what we are taught in our Faith through the Church and tell others when asked that it could never change. That it is a doctrine of the Church that marriage is between one man and one woman, that all sexual acts must be not only unitive but open to life, and that acting on same sex attraction is considered intrinsically evil.

But, I admit, sometimes when I hear the comments of Pope Francis (yes, many taken out of context, but not all) I worry that the Church could shift and that it could somehow say they’ve come to a fuller understanding of God and His people.

I believe that the now overwhelming acceptance in society and the lack of a really clear direction from some Church leaders on this is doing great harm to our children. They are being led astray and our society is heading to a point where many will end up living a gay lifestyle. Just like how co-habitating, multiple partners, abortion high divorce rates is all the norm now and according to polls most in the Church don’t think twice about these things.

We are all born with the ability to have impure thoughts and ideas, and so it’s certainly not uncommon for even straight young people to have impure thoughts towards a member of the same sex, but now instead of repressing them as such they will act on them as normal and healthy. At every turn now those thoughts are encouraged and it just breaks my heart for these lost souls.

I don’t worry about this, because I don’t love homosexuals, or because I”m a homophobe or all the other things that people may call me. I worry because it would end my Faith that the Church is the One Holy Apostolic Church that is unchangeable and infallibly led by the Apostle’s successors through the Holy Spirit.

Please be kind. I just feel distressed by what is happening out there. I still have young children and it’s hard to not be concerned. I know God’s in control and my job is to just teach and live the Faith out in front of my children, but I worry so much that the Church is not fully supporting us by sending watered down, often times mixed messages, through liberal priests etc.
You need a better understanding between Doctrine and discipline, Doctrine will NEVER change but discipline can develop and change, (such as penances after Confession etc.) The Church will never accept the low morals of our modern society. You should find a good priest and talk these things over with him. God Bless, Memaw
 
You need a better understanding between Doctrine and discipline, Doctrine will NEVER change but discipline can develop and change, (such as penances after Confession etc.) The Church will never accept the low morals of our modern society. You should find a good priest and talk these things over with him. God Bless, Memaw
Thank you, As I said, I really do know that we are taught that doctrine can never change, and I understand disciplines such as the fact priests in our rite can’t marry can change over time, but it is still disconcerting when you hear such weak messages coming from our priests.

I live in an area with fairly liberal priests. It can make a person wonder sometimes. I feel like it does more harm than good when we send mixed messages, to both those in the Church and the world at large and so your mind worries. Not that worry is of God, but sometimes when you look around and see what is happening you just can’t help it.
 
Why would salvation for anybody ever be a bad thing? Are we hoping that that DOESN’T happen?
 
Why would salvation for anybody ever be a bad thing? Are we hoping that that DOESN’T happen?
No in itself is not a bad thing, The Church and we Catholics, are encouraged to pray, always pray for the salvation of souls, especially those in more need.
Who do you believe are those?
Also wanting salvation for everyone does not make it so. Those that reject salvation cannot be helped no matter how much we pray for them. However we are required to pray for all since only GOD can judge who will be saved and who won’t.

The Church has an enormous responsibility, having the power to bind and loose, does not mean she can void GOD’s own commandments. What is sin will always be sinful.
The only choice we have on the matter is repent from sin and CHANGE! 👍
If that flies in the face of our current secular world view, so be it, it is not the first time it is so.

Or do you actually believe the deception that what people are doing now is actually new?
Perhaps you should read some ancient books from Greece and Rome where you will learn that not much has changed in 3000 years.

 
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