I am a modern Traditionalist

[soonfathermauro]

First and formost I am a Traditionalist I belive in all the tenents of the Church. At the same time rather I call myself a modern Traditionalist because I feel that it is time to bring the Traditionalist view in a more modern light. Some people I know have problems with this, personally I dont care I am who I am and who I am is a servent of the Lord and his people. But somebody said that It is agasint the church to think the way I do…any thoughts??

 

[BeansOnToast]

In which ways would you want to bring traditional thinking into modern light? Could you give examples?

 

[soonfathermauro]

In which ways would you want to bring traditional thinking into modern light? Could you give examples?

Sure

What I mean is quite simply say like the High Latin Mass, Most catholics and non catholics alike have little to no love for the Latin Mass but I in my modern thinking try to relate the High Latin Mass to nowadays Catholics and also just other tenets of Traditionalist views

does that help?

 

[brotherhrolf]

Sorry, no. There are still large numbers of us who grew up with High Masses (I was an altar boy). I don’t attend an EF parish. I attend a reverent OF cathedral parish. Would I like to see a Solemn High Mass with choir like I knew as a child? You betcha! I want my two sons (23 and 26) to know what Mass was like for centuries. Hey, I’d even serve!

 

[Rawb]

The problem I think you’d come up against is your carrying out of what exactly made something ‘relevant’.

For example, the ‘Life Teen Mass’ is supposed to make Mass 'relevent for teens. It’s supposed to connect us to the Mass.

This, however, completely ignores the fact that the Mass is ALREADY relevent and we should already be connected to it. If we aren’t, then guess what, it’s not the Mass that needs to change, it’s our understanding of true spirituality and reverence. In many cases, as a matter of fact, these actions do the opposite and disconnect us from the Mass. I can’t even sit through a Life Teen Mass and I’m the exact age that sort of show is supposed to make the Mass ‘relevent’ for.

So often things are changed nowdays to make them ‘relevent’ when it’s the parishoners in the pews who ought to be changing, not the traditions. If our modern world is so screwed up (and I think few here would argue that it isn’t) then I have to wonder why we’re trying to bring the Traditions to it rather than the other way around.

 

[owenswain]

The problem I think you’d come up against is your carrying out of what exactly made something ‘relevent’.

For example, the ‘Life Teen Mass’ is supposed to make Mass 'relevant for teens. It’s supposed to connect us to the Mass.

This, however, completely ignores the fact that the Mass is ALREADY relevent and we should already be connected to it.

Oh yeah, just ask my one young adult and two teens what they, as former protestant preacher’s kids thought after trying out the LT Mass and they would tell you, We said, Dad, never again. It wasn’t relevant or even “relevent” for them.

Honestly, they wanted to know what is relevant about a protestant service with the addition of our Eucharistic Lord? Minus Him it was a clear case of been there done that, Dad.

Oddly, for apparently thousands (some estimate much higher numbers) of youths the LT Mass is the catechists meow and it helps them connect better with their protestant friends. M-m-m, OK…me? well I seem to be inexorably headed down the Latin path and I have no reason not to as I am fortunate enough to live in one of very few Canadian cities were a Latin Mass is offered. I’m not there yet but I’m heading there, I think.

 

[MrS]

So often things are changed nowdays to make them ‘relevent’ when it’s the parishoners in the pews who ought to be changing, not the traditions. If our modern world is so screwed up (and I think few here would argue that it isn’t) then I have to wonder why we’re trying to bring the Traditions to it rather than the other way around.

 

[PrayforMallory]

Oh yeah, just ask my one young adult and two teens what they, as former protestant preacher’s kids thought after trying out the LT Mass and they would tell you, We said, Dad, never again. It wasn’t relevant or even “relevent” for them.

Honestly, they wanted to know what is relevant about a protestant service with the addition of our Eucharistic Lord? Minus Him it was a clear case of been there done that, Dad.

Oddly, for apparently thousands (some estimate much higher numbers) of youths the LT Mass is the catechists meow and it helps them connect better with their protestant friends. M-m-m, OK…me? well I seem to be inexorably headed down the Latin path and I have no reason not to as I am fortunate enough to live in one of very few Canadian cities were a Latin Mass is offered. I’m not there yet but I’m heading there, I think.

Encouraging post.

We pretty much had lifeteen (minus the Eucharist) when we were Protestants.

It didn’t do me a lot of good, personally.

 

[owenswain]

Encouraging post…

Thanks PfM. I’ll recevie that as a warm welcome and do my best to learn my way about the forums. Interesting I was here two years ago, or so, and bowed out because of the nastiness that was then evident especially in the Apologetics threads.

 

[Tommy_Joe]

First and formost I am a Traditionalist I belive in all the tenents of the Church. At the same time rather I call myself a modern Traditionalist because I feel that it is time to bring the Traditionalist view in a more modern light. Some people I know have problems with this, personally I dont care I am who I am and who I am is a servent of the Lord and his people. But somebody said that It is agasint the church to think the way I do…any thoughts??

A modern traditionalist,…sounds kinda contradictory to me.

They’d have loved you at Vatican II.

 

[Like]

Thanks PfM. I’ll recevie that as a warm welcome and do my best to learn my way about the forums. Interesting I was here two years ago, or so, and bowed out because of the nastiness that was then evident especially in the Apologetics threads.

Welcome Owen! I also agree with PFM, Great post!

Please hang in here, with your back ground you have a lot to offer IMHO! And I would really like to hear your conversion story.

 

[Rawb]

Honestly, they wanted to know what is relevant about a protestant service with the addition of our Eucharistic Lord? Minus Him it was a clear case of been there done that, Dad.

Exactly. I’m so sick of hearing of and seeing priests (and often Bishops) trying to play keepin’ up with the Protestants. Why would we want to?! I’m a former Protestant, and ‘been there done that is it exactly’. I want to be Catholic. I want specifically Catholic. Protestant spirituality is protestant, which means, by definition, it is wrong and even heretical. Why are so many trying to imitate them?

it helps them connect better with their protestant friends

This is one area where we don’t really need them to connect with their protestant friends. This ‘connection’ will just make the Protestants’ jobs easier when they try and convert the kids.

“Well…it looks the same…and sounds the same…it probably is the same. I’ll just go here instead of Mass. My friends go here…”

 

[Dempsey1919]

What is a modern traditionalist?

What’s modern about traditionalism? Traditional Catholic Liturgy is neither old or modern; it is timeless.

There is no need to “modernise” the Tridentine Mass because it remains relevant to a lot of modern people, both old and young.

There is a reason that the Tridentine Mass is called the Mass of All Time. There is no need to introduce innovations in an attempt to modernise the Mass.

What is fashionable now will quickly go out of fashion, but the Tridentine Mass never goes out of fashion because it is not subject to the passing novelties of any generation.

The reason the Tridentine Mass is not as popular these days is because the vast majority of modern Catholics have not experienced it fully; and many of those who have attended the occasional Latin Mass don’t know enough about it to fully appreciate it.

We will see how relevant the Tridentine Mass is when every Parish in the world celebrates it; everybody will then have the chance to experience it for themselves. When this day comes, I am sure that a lot of people fall in love with this form of the Roman Mass.

 

[bpbasilphx]

There is a reason that the Tridentine Mass is called the Mass of All Time.

And just what are the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, or the Qorbono of Ss Addai and Mari, which are much older than the Tridentine Mass–chopped liver?

 

[jam070406]

There is a reason that the Tridentine Mass is called the Mass of All Time.

And just what are the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, or the Qorbono of Ss Addai and Mari, which are much older than the Tridentine Mass–chopped liver?

Not liturgies of the Latin rite.

 

[Dempsey1919]

And just what are the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, or the Qorbono of Ss Addai and Mari, which are much older than the Tridentine Mass–chopped liver?

Maybe it’s just me, but I thought we were talking about the Traditional spirituality of the Roman rite. Remind me were anybody even mentioned the Masses of the Eastern Churches?

I’m sure that the Masses you mentioned are fantastic, but unfortunately we were discussing the traditional Roman Mass, which has been nicknamed by us Latin’s as “The Mass of All Time.”

If you want to discuss the merits of the various Eastern liturgies then I suggest that you head on over to the Eastern Catholic forum.

 

[owenswain]

Quote:“it helps them connect better with their protestant friends”

This is one area where we don’t really need them to connect with their protestant friends. This ‘connection’ will just make the Protestants’ jobs easier when they try and convert the kids.

“Well…it looks the same…and sounds the same…it probably is the same. I’ll just go here instead of Mass. My friends go here…”

To clarify, the above quote from my post is not a view I hold. Rather, I was trying to express what is often said in regard to the benefits to Catholics in the LT Mass. While we need to express grace and wisdom toward our separated brethren we do not need to imitate them. I think what my own kids clearly show is that the more Catholic we are in our Catholic faith the more we will see a truly faithful among the young faithful and the more we shall see a retention or return of youth in and to the Church.

A secondary thought but one prompted by discussion on this thread:

An anecdote: In our parish is a young woman who is soon to be married. She is a former WYD organizer and pilgrim of two WYD events. She was very involved in bringing LT Mass to our parish, some years before our arrival, and understandably very involved in the youth ministry. Her mother is in a class that I teach and over the past two years has shared with me her own grief as her daughter now plans on marrying a fundamentalist Baptist. There are many issues here too lengthy and sadly familiar to detail on this thread. The point is that the daughter was looking for a devout Christian young man - she wanted to be married and have kids. She looked among the Catholic guys and didn’t see much going on. In a spirit of ecumenicism (I know, a dangerous topic) she began mixing with other Christians who, after, were not that different not even in their form of worship (what?) and when she found the man of her dreams the fact that his salvation is not found in the Church became moot. But more than moot, he is actively converting this once hard core Adoration going, Eucharistic minded, WYD and LT organizing young woman. Indeed, she tells her mother that she is grateful someone finally told her what Catholics really teach and is now mad at her faithful mother for withholding truth and worse, presenting to her such spirtual lies.

Does our heart not break? And in light of this, while wanting to flee even the appearance of being a sedevacantisist (and to say I am not trying to open a banned discussion) it is stories such as this which make me lean toward Tradition.

My secondary thoughts above may have been better posted on the What do traditionalists think of LifeTeen Masses’ appeal? thread (?)

 

[owenswain]

Welcome Owen! I also agree with PFM, Great post!

Please hang in here, with your back ground you have a lot to offer IMHO! And I would really like to hear your conversion story.

Thank you Like.
My spiritual director along with fellow pilgrims from the 49th I.E.C. have convinced me that it is time to write “that” book: conversion story. I was uncertain for a long time but I received some enlightenment, really an understanding of the level of my own pride and self seeking, while at 49th I.E.C.: this is not my story that I can decide to withhold it or not, for whatever reason. The story is God’s story. To be obedient is what matters, so I will write it. You see, I felt, who would want to read my story? It was a tricky kind of reverse pride which is really still just pride and maybe with a capital P. So, when it’s written God may make little of it or much, neither should be my concern.

Luminousmiseries.ca has come back on-line after six months of self imposed silence. The original conversion story in all its naked and step by step process is not currently available on-line - hundreds of posts from April 02 2005 to January 08. But it will be back in some form eventually while, in the meantime, the blog tracks my current journey and welcome to look in.

 

[Rawb]

To clarify, the above quote from my post is not a view I hold

Oh I know (or could tell anyway). I was just building off of what you said.

The story you said is all too common, and all too sad. What is Catholic is Catholic, and obviously different. That difference is important. In my opinion, at any rate. If a Protestant can walk through the parish doors and feel completly comfortable (not ‘welcomed’) or doesn’t feel slightly out of place, then something is wrong. The spiritualities of Protestants and Catholics are so different that, by necessity of being honest and true to authentic Catholic and Protestant Spirituality, one should not feel completely comfortable in the other’s setting.

 

[Layman]

To a previous poster: A woman would be prepared to go to Hell for her man; that is her glory and her weakness.

Re: Life Teen Masses(?): 30 years ago the clergy and nuns and brothers were all trying to appeal to ‘The Youth’ with secularised services. The hip kids weren’t too interested.

Adults should realise the teens develop into adults by rebelling against whatever their parents believe in. A young man that obeys his parents in all things will grow up to be a Mama’s boy, and no use to anyone.

All human beings, however, bow to strength. To convince someone, you state your position clearly and simply, describe the benefits you have enjoyed, and encourage them to come along and get them too.

You don’t convince someone by cravenly giving them what you think they want; a watered-down version of whatever’s popular at the moment. Kids can smell weakness on adults.