I am an atheist thread 4

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munan,Chapter 2:7 Genesis say that God created man out of the clay of the ground.

I am a very strong Catholic and yes, I do believe in evolution. I believe that after God created everything, life moved around the earth and adapted to its particular environment…God plan in action:thumbsup:
 
Yes I have to agree with that too, a lot of things in the Bible people make a mistake of taking literally but they are metaphors. And we have to keep in mind people that wrote that long ago saw things through different eyes than the ones we see through today, so a flaming Chariot in the sky probably wasn’t a chariot, but it was the closest thing they could compare it to at that time. But yes I believe God is behind it all.👍
 
Yes I have to agree with that too, a lot of things in the Bible people make a mistake of taking literally but they are metaphors. And we have to keep in mind people that wrote that long ago saw things through different eyes than the ones we see through today, so a flaming Chariot in the sky probably wasn’t a chariot, but it was the closest thing they could compare it to at that time. But yes I believe God is behind it all.👍
That has always been my take on this. Taking the Bible as a literal work confused me even as a small boy in Sunday School. I was about four and they were already tired of me.
I was asked to leave my church when I was 17 because I just had too many questions that nobody could answer.
Since then, I’ve learned much, including the fact that the Bible is allegorical at best, and as you stated, seen through the eyes of people about fifteen hundred years ago.
 
munan,Chapter 2:7 Genesis say that God created man out of the clay of the ground.

I am a very strong Catholic and yes, I do believe in evolution. I believe that after God created everything, life moved around the earth and adapted to its particular environment…God plan in action:thumbsup:
Saint Monica prayed for her son Saint Augustine for years and was an example of prayer.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_of_Hippo

Dhuoda - (In conclusion Dhuoda told of her ambition to be mother to her son for a second time.) "According to the sayings of scholars, two births can be seen in each man, a fleshly birth and a spiritual birth, and spiritual birth is more noble than fleshly birth. To these two births correspond two deaths, the first is suffered by every human being, and the second one may be avoided altogether. ‘He who conquers shall not be hurt by the second death’ ", she said, quoting from the Book of Revelation.
pg.51 of Women In The Days of the Cathedrals by REGINE PERNOUD
 
@Jonathan82
"If I follow the church because my intentions are to be closer to God, and he doesn’t want me to follow the church I think we would be given a strong message, kinda like the strong message sent with Jesus Dying on the Cross.
You see Historically what you have said has happened already with Jesus."
The divinity of Jesus is hardly historical. As far as I’m concerned, I’m not sure if he even existed. And, as already discussed, Jesus dying on the cross is a ridiculous way of sending a message. A primative, bloodthirsty, ineffecient way of sending a message.
“Yes I have to agree with that too, a lot of things in the Bible people make a mistake of taking literally but they are metaphors.”
But the bible doesn’t tell us what to take literally and what to take metaphorically. Perhaps the bits about “god” and the “lord” are intended to be metaphorical?
 
@love4mary
“If I jumped to conclusions phooney about some of your statements regarding my son, I apologize.”
No problem whatsoever. It is perfectly understandable that you are protective of your son, and I’m sure you only want what is best for him, that is not something I was calling into question. It is your theistic beliefs that I currently find irrational and am trying to understand. I’ve read reasonably widely and found nothing that supports the god hypothesis.
“My level of knowledge does not even come close to most here in the forum, I can only speak for myself concerning what was logical for me in my conversion.”
Don’t sell yourself so short. Sure, some people learn easier than others, and some things are really hard to understand, but that is no reason to stop pushing the boundaries of our understanding.
"Big Bang: Where did the gas come from
Fusion of dust forming planets: Where did the dust come from
Life started from a single cell: Incredible diversity of life
Organization: The complex way higher life forms are put together
and function"
Indeed, I’ve found great pleasure in finding out how the universe really works. From this list of questions are you implying that you don’t understand the big bang, you don’t understand gravity, you don’t understand chemistry, you don’t understand biology, you don’t understand evolution… and therefore you think god exists? These are just arguments from ignorance. Don’t take offence at that word, it simply means unaware of the facts. Everybody is probably ignorant of something, but ignorance can only ever be evidence for the ignorance itself.
“These questions may not have had an impact on you, but to me,they were HUGE. I could not answer them, in fact, I have never read anyone who can. It was when I started to think about the implications of these questions that God opened my eyes to Him.”
They are great questions, that’s for sure. Some of them have been comprehensively answered, some of them are only hypotheses at the moment. They are all better answers than ‘goddidit’ because at least some of them are mathematically sound, and are made with the aim of being falsifiable, and don’t require belief without evidence.
“As I stated above, I am far less educated then most on this forum, but to my simple mind, God truly exists and proves it daily with a beautiful Sunrise/set,wild flowers in the meadows and my majestic Tennessee mountains”
Again, there’s no need to belittle yourself unless you feel uneducated about something, want to find out about it… but haven’t because you have the catch-all answer of “God”. Anybody can have a catch-all answer if it doesn’t require evidence. Mine could be “Uni the universe creating unicorn did it” for example. But it answers nothing when you make it up to answer everything.

You don’t have to believe in God to appreciate the beautiful sunrises and sunsets, flowers, animals, landscapes, etc. Trying to understand what you are seeing doesn’t detract from the beauty either. Next time you’re staring at a sunset consider that we are floating around on a lump of rock that weighs 5,972,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons at the edge of a gigantic gravity well, and you’re staring into the past at a star about 8 light-minutes away and you can see it because it is losing about 4 billion kg per second due to the fusion of hydrogen into helium and the resultant radiation. Big numbers, but look at what else is in the universe:

youtube.com/watch?v=Tfs1t-2rrOM

We live in a beautiful place, but it is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena (to quote Carl Sagan). I looked through a telescope at Saturn on Monday night, and it is as breathtaking as ever. It’s kind of sad that we will soon be edge-on to the rings and not able to see them for a while.
“I will continue to pray (and not badger my son) for his re-conversion of heart, I will continue to keep open the lines of communication with him and pray that by living my Catholic Faith with a joyful heart, he will at least be curious enough to ask WHY!”
By all means, do. 🙂
 
@Natural Enquierer

You really can’t keep away, eh? Good I say!
“This is a little disingenuous, phooney. Just because we can’t comprehend God in His totality, doesn’t mean we have to throw up our hands.
Do we really understand God’s trinitarian nature? No. Do we understand when he says “Thou shalt not murder”? Yes. He has revealed certain things to us, and we can act on those things, even though our understanding is incomplete.”
Thou shalt not murder? We already knew that, what did we need god to do that for? Your god’s ten commandments were beaten to the punch by various other codified laws.
 
@munan
“Most do not realize that evolution is not the answer to how. Merely the answer to why.”
Did you get this the wrong way around? I don’t think I’ve heard it like that before hehe.
“Is it so hard to believe that the Divine breathed life into the universe and allowed it to flourish as it was able?”
Depends what you define “the Divine” as I guess. If you define it as “I don’t know” then I think you’re probably being more truthful 🙂
“Thank you very much.
I hope I have knowledge to offer.
You will find that I am quite interested in logical discussions about a great many things.
After all, I am a seeker of knowledge, and without the ability or desire to question one’s own beliefs, one can never gain that knowledge.”
I look forward to your contributions!
“I also go all “Buddhist” as my daughter says from time to time.
I have a very accepting nature, but I love to force people into corners and have them explain their beliefs.
Not to question them, but to understand them.”
Do you often get forced into similar corners?
“I was asked to leave my church when I was 17 because I just had too many questions that nobody could answer.”
Which church was it that didn’t like questions?
 
@Natural Enquierer

You really can’t keep away, eh? Good I say!

Thou shalt not murder? We already knew that, what did we need god to do that for? Your god’s ten commandments were beaten to the punch by various other codified laws.
My point was not that the commandment was profound (although it’s good to have on the books! ;)), but that it was understandable.
 
@munan
Did you get this the wrong way around? I don’t think I’ve heard it like that before hehe.

Depends what you define “the Divine” as I guess. If you define it as “I don’t know” then I think you’re probably being more truthful 🙂

I look forward to your contributions!

Do you often get forced into similar corners?
Which church was it that didn’t like questions?
I suppose which way you take my statement can be taken a number of ways. 😉
If Creation is the Big Bang, then no. That’s how. Evolution is why we’re here now, not at all. It’s all true, depending on your point of view. I happen to believe we were created, but I also happen to believe that the charming story in the Bible doesn’t even scratch the surface of what happened.
What did happen? I fear my mind, as vast as it is, is too small to answer that.

By “Divine”, I was merely speaking in a language our Catholic friend could relate to. My term is not “The Divine” but rather “The powers that be.” 🙂

I don’t see myself forced into corners actually. I see myself being placed in situations to further my own enlightenment. As I’ve said, if you’re not willing to question your own beliefs, then how do you know what you believe?
I enjoy discussions of this nature because they allow me to grow.

And the church was a Pentecostal abomination my mother dragged us to after she recovered from her “backslide”…
As with many Christians, she came back to the church after living a little and became terrified her soul was in danger. She over compensated by joining the most radical church ever.
That was the experience that allowed me to break free. Seeing that many robots in one place encouraged me to think for myself, and when I did, they sent me packing.
I am not interested in worshiping a god that threatens me and demands I fear it.
I would not call myself religious now, as much as spiritual. I accept the nature of those things and persons around me and endeavor to harm none along my way.
I am honest, trustworthy, kind, generous and I love my family. I give to charity and I cook fabulous meals for those who care to share my table.
If I’m going to spend the rest of time suffering for that, then I intend to enjoy my time here. Of course, it’s pretty obvious I don’t believe that, huh?
 
phooney,I have been away from the forum for a short time and missed your question about my apparent confusion.

I understand the Theory of the Big Band and in and of itself, see no major problem with it. I, unlike you though, believe that God created the gases and the dust and adding the Spark that set it all in motion.

As for the sciences. I am pretty well grounded education in biology and natural science including gravity. Can I explain these at a level of a professor?, nope, but I have a basic understanding.

Everything had to start somewhere at some time in some place. I know you have heard the arguments before, “Where did the gases come from in the Big Bang?”,to date, I personally have never heard an explanation to that question.

The immense complexity of life, the way that all the organs of a body work together in harmony (assuming one is healthy of course) could not have happened by chance. For everything to just fall together at random to form a complete functioning organism is beyond imagination, at least for me.

Do I believe in the Big Bang Theory?-----Yes

Do I believe in Evolution?----------------------Yes, to a degree

Do I believe that God set it all in motion?,.,Absolutely, how else could it all have happened!
 
@Jonathan82

The divinity of Jesus is hardly historical. As far as I’m concerned, I’m not sure if he even existed. And, as already discussed, Jesus dying on the cross is a ridiculous way of sending a message. A primative, bloodthirsty, ineffecient way of sending a message.

But the bible doesn’t tell us what to take literally and what to take metaphorically. Perhaps the bits about “god” and the “lord” are intended to be metaphorical?
You need to want to understand to understand something like this. The message was intended to stick, if he were to do it a different way at a time like that it wouldn’t be the same. Again it was a different time, always keep that in mind. You need to work with everything to come up with a good theory in your case or else every time I look at the thread some of you guys are asking questions that relate to things that were already answered. And I dont know but I think the message was quite efficient because after all its been 2008 years and we still believe.
 
A,I believe I have a very good understanding of his lack of faith in God. I was an Atheist for 40 years of my life having been raised in such a home. I know most all the arguments based on “logic” and “reason”,or so I thought.:rolleyes:
I do try to listen to him, I want him to explain to me his reasons, not so I will “Bash” him, but so I have a better understanding where his mind is at. I know the journey he is on, and its a tough one.

Phooney, at 14, my son is very much old enough to articulate his thoughts and reasonings, albeit not as an adult would. But “Good for him?” good that he turned his back on his Creator? Trust me on this, emotions have very little to do with this. When I converted to Christianity and became Catholic, it was LOGIC that brought me home, NOT emotion, in some respects I am still waiting for the emotional part of my conversion to “kick in” so to speak.

My son had at one time a very real and strong belief in God. Many factors in his personal and social life caused him to doubt or just become lazy, and like another poster said, he enjoys his sins more then being faithful to God’s teachings.

My son fell away based on emotions, it will be Logic that will bring him home. And a whole lot of prayers from me and those who love him. I entrusted him to our Lady, and she will lead him home to our Lord. His eternal soul depends on it.
You say here that logic will bring one to faith. I have never seen such logic. Care to share?
 
I think for both parents might want to try is share your personal experiences with your kids and show them how you got through your hardships with the power of prayer, and faith in God and Jesus Christ.
It seems that many of you are not even willing to consider the possibility that he might be right about your god being an invention.

I bet he can tell.
 
I couldn’t agree more with those people that say that after all our minds cannot comprehend completely the way he operates
Look carefully. If you cannot comprehend, why are you saying that the bible is the word of your god?
How do you know it’s not Satan…or perhaps inventions of men, assembled badly…
 
Yes I have to agree with that too, a lot of things in the Bible people make a mistake of taking literally but they are metaphors.
So you choose which parts of the bible you will treat as metaphor, and I will choose which parts I will treat as metaphor.
Sounds fair, since the bible doesn’t say which parts are -]fiction /-]metaphor.
 
The immense complexity of life, the way that all the organs of a body work together in harmony (assuming one is healthy of course) could not have happened by chance.
They did not happen purely be chance, the fact that you use that statement tells me you don’t have a great grasp on evolution. It isn’t just chance, it’s chance with a powerful ally.
There is a great set of lectures called “Growing Up In The Universe” available online. They taught me a lot. I hope you find it as enjoyable as I did.
For everything to just fall together at random to form a complete functioning organism is beyond imagination, at least for me.
The theory does not suggest that it was random.
 
Look carefully. If you cannot comprehend, why are you saying that the bible is the word of your god?
How do you know it’s not Satan…or perhaps inventions of men, assembled badly…
Why don’t you read the earlier posts before posting. I’m tired of retyping.
 
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