I am an atheist thread 4

[1234]

And I don’t believe these people are Muslim extremists, Jesus Camp type, etc.

I believe that a child should be brought up religiously, then make a choice. Even though I don’t believe in it, I know that church instills fundamental qualities into a child better than most ways. “Listen to me or no dessert” would pretty much be dwarfed by “Listen to me or go to hell”. You are blind if you don’t see obvious differences in children brought up with religion, and children that are free to do as the please.

Your view of God as “invisible man in the sky” is the most ignorant statement I have ever seen. You cannot call yourself an smart atheist if you do not know the opposing ideals. To them, it’s much, much more than any “invisible man in the sky” could ever be.

Why don’t you show a little tolerance here, even if you don’t agree.

-Wade

AC-tually I think that a threat to withhold dessert is pretty ineffectual. You try to reason with a child; if this is unsuccessful, you can try a time out if (s)he’s misbehaving,m but not something that’s not going to be withheld soon, in the time frame in which you’re speaking. Dessert is too late.

I don’t think that it’s a good idea to raise a child in any religion but if you do it should be one you believe it. They are all irrational. Children are extremely clear-thinking and logical; they can smell a lie a mile away and can sense inequalities and illogicalities immediately. “Why did Bobby die, Mommy?” “He had cancer.” “Why didn’t God cure him?” “Because it wasn’t God’s will.” “Why wasn’t it God’s will?” “We don’t know but someday we will all know.” 'When?" “I don’t know.” “Why don’t you know?” “Because no one knows.” “Is he in heaven?” “I don’t know–maybe he didn’t say confession, or ate a hamburger on Good Friday or masturbated or looked at a porn magazine that someone snuck into his hospital room and NOW HE’S IN HELL.”

or:

“Why did Bobby die, Mommy?” “He had cancer.” “Can’t they cure cancer?” “Not his kind. Not yet.” “When will they be able to cure cancer?” “I don’t know, but someday. Maybe when you grow up, you’ll find a cure.”

As a child, which would you rather hear?

It is not hard at all to raise a child with a strong moral code without religion. Use Epicurean philosophy, as I’ve mentioned many times before. Practice self-control and moderation. Without it you’ll be obese, smoking, addicted, broke, in jail, sick, dead. Be kind and you’ll have friends. Don’t break the law-otherwise you’ll speed, kill people, get tickets, be in jail. Children can learn all of these things. People who require the fear of hell to be good have no moral code. Atheists don’t want them either.

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

If your god is visible, then it can be photographed. If invisible, then he can not be. Why do you make it more complicated than it has to be?

Was Julius Caesar visible?
Was he ever photographed?

Are you offended that I said your god was invisible? Why?

I guess I’m a little bit offended by your deliberate mischaracterization of Christian beliefs, yeah.

The pronoun ‘he’ is usually used to refer to the masculine. If he is genderless, then the bible was wrong every time it used ‘he’ as the pronoun.

Ridiculous. You **know **this is ridiculous.

Was Jesus a man? Is he visible? (remember the photography test!)

Granted that God was incarnated as a man. While on Earth, he was certainly visible. Since he’s no longer primarily here, he is only selectively visible.

That is because it is nonsense. If your bible says different, with no evidence, or evidence which conflicts with the universe, then the bible is contradicting whoever created the universe (I mean if you believe in a ‘creator’)

The universe can not be edited by a church with suspicious motives.

Again with the veiled accusations. Would you like to back it up this time, or just cut and run like you have every single time in the past?

Never mind, rhetorical question.

The universe is a better bible.

Salmon is a better tomato.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I was also homosexual.

After trying everything I could on my own limited human power and reason to be happy and free, i said a prayer to jesus christ and all of those desires were removed from me and I went from being an evil person, harming everyone around me, to a productive person with an entirely different outlook on life and different belief system.

Are you saying you are attracted to the opposite sex now?

 

[1234]

**I wish I were religious. But I’m not, and I’ve accepted it. I will raise my children Christian, and let them make their own conclusions when their older. I believe every child should be subject to religion when growing up, yet able to be free to make any decisions when older. I became an atheist at the age of 14. If he came to YOU about this, consider yourself lucky. He didn’t do what happens to most of us Atheists, which is being force-fed something we just don’t believe in all the time. It grows a scorn for religion in general.

To whoever wrote this:

Don’t raise your children Christian, if you yourself aren’t Christian. Raise them UU. They will learn religions, discuss them, particularly as teenagers, and develop a strong moral code. You, as an atheist have a strong moral code, I presume, as most atheists do. Share your code with your child. But I think that an exposure to the roots of Western civ is a good idea, and UU is the place for us atheists to do it. Comparitive religion classes in high school are also good, if your schools have them. Many don’t.

And to the parent of the atheist child:

Teenagers often become atheist, or Buddhist, or vegetarians,or hyper-observant Jews, orditto Catholics or combinations of the above. It’s all part of the exploration process. Let them explore. Most will abandon or modify thier explorations. Making a Big Deal of it solves nothing. And I wouldn’t MAKE them go to church. That will backfire big time.

 

[Armor_of_God]

If your god is visible, then it can be photographed. If invisible, then he can not be.

Was Jesus a man? Is he visible? (remember the photography test!)

Here is a photograph of Jesus. (scroll down)

images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://home.catholicweb.com/stmarymanchester/images/Eucharistic/monstrance2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://stmarymanchester.catholicweb.com/index.cfm/NewsItem%3FID%3D98405%26From%3DNews&h=405&w=183&sz=16&hl=en&start=151&um=1&tbnid=WmxNxVjwdCU6fM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=56&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMonstrance%26start%3D140%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

 

[Pax]

Comparing affection for hamburgers with a belief in an invisible man in the sky is ridiculous. Hamburgers don’t create division among people the way that religions do.I think this is horrible. Why inculcate them with the fear-mongering belief which you don’t share?

Wade, if you really want your children to grow up with a choice, teach them about all religions, and let them choose which (or none!).

Now this sounds like fear mongering to me.

Really? I suggested a broader education, just how is that fear-mongering?

Your contention that religion causes divisions among people is fear mongering. Moreover, you even describe it as "horrible."You don’t seem to rail against everything else that happens to divide people such as:

–Fashion
–politics
–sports
–incomes
–talent
–personalities
–neighborhoods
–etc, etc, etc…ad infinitum

Even suggesting that a belief in God inculcates children with fear mongering is in itself “fear mongering.”

You are not simply suggesting a broader education. In your perfect world you would not teach or encourage your children to have any religious belief whatsoever. In fact, you are discouraging it altogether. This is a narrowing rather than a broadening of education.

 

[_A]

Actually, I was brought up with no faith in God or belief of any kind in the spiritual realms.

I became a thief, alcoholic, addict and was in jail 2 years before I was 22. Not to mention the boys home for three years.

I was also homosexual.

Do you think this is because of atheism? Do you suggest a lack of a personal god leads to this behaviour? Does the evidence around us support that, or is yours an abnormal story?

It is not hard at all to raise a child with a strong moral code without religion. Use Epicurean philosophy, as I’ve mentioned many times before. Practice self-control and moderation. Without it you’ll be obese, smoking, addicted, broke, in jail, sick, dead. Be kind and you’ll have friends. Don’t break the law-otherwise you’ll speed, kill people, get tickets, be in jail. Children can learn all of these things. People who require the fear of hell to be good have no moral code. Atheists don’t want them either.

Well said. Morals don’t flow from a personal god.

Was Julius Caesar visible?
Was he ever photographed?

I don’t think you are suggesting that Julius Caesar is your god, so you are asking an irrelevant question here. Your god is not visible. That is why I used the word ‘invisible’ and that is why it is accurate.

I guess I’m a little bit offended by your deliberate mischaracterization of Christian beliefs, yeah.

Which one was mischaracterized?

Ridiculous. You **know **this is ridiculous.

There is something in the Catholic bible about Yahweh creating Adam in his image. What kind of job do you think he did on it? The legends (which are all I have to go on) say ‘perfect’.
If Adam was a man, then your god is, too. Just saying ‘ridiculous’ over and over again is almost not worth addressing, by the way.

Granted that God was incarnated as a man. While on Earth, he was certainly visible. Since he’s no longer primarily here, he is only selectively visible.

When he is visible, take a picture and post it, until then, I still say he is invisible.(I know I am being flip, but it is because I find it unbelievable that you are seriously opposing the claim that your god is invisible)

Again with the veiled accusations. Would you like to back it up this time, or just cut and run like you have every single time in the past?

I think their motives are suspect. I think so because there are human motives involved. You are welcome to trust them blindly, but I would not recommend it.

Salmon is a better tomato.

Who ‘wrote’ the bible? I mean the one you like best? Was it a printer?
Who ‘wrote’ the universe?
Who do *you *think more trustworthy?
The universe is a better bible.

 

[_A]

Your contention that religion causes divisions among people is fear mongering. Moreover, you even describe it as "horrible."You don’t seem to rail against everything else that happens to divide people such as:

–Fashion

I rail against the big, gold plated ridiculous pope-hat in a world where children are starving. What offensive excess is Vatican City.

–politics

Northern Ireland.

–sports
–incomes
–talent
–personalities

There are more personal differences than group ones.

–neighborhoods
–etc, etc, etc…ad infinitum

There are lots of ways to be different, but more people have been murdered in the name of a god than for any other reason.

Even suggesting that a belief in God inculcates children with fear mongering is in itself “fear mongering.”

I think telling them they risk destroying their eternal soul if they masturbate (and dozens of irrational claims like it) is abusive and ‘fear-mongering’. I think there is much to be feared in following a religion uncritically (or following anything uncritically).

You are not simply suggesting a broader education. In your perfect world you would not teach or encourage your children to have any religious belief whatsoever. In fact, you are discouraging it altogether. This is a narrowing rather than a broadening of education.

I wonder if you teach your children to worship Allah, or Krishna?

 

[Jonathan82]

A why are you so angry with the catholic religion man? you need a chill pill or something.

 

[Armor_of_God]

I don’t think you are suggesting that Julius Caesar is your god, so you are asking an irrelevant question here. Your god is not visible. That is why I used the word ‘invisible’ and that is why it is accurate.

When he is visible, take a picture and post it, until then, I still say he is invisible.

Did you look at the photograph I posted, A?

 

[Armor_of_God]

I am strongly opposed to suffering.

Why is that?

 

[Pax]

…
…
There are lots of ways to be different, but more people have been murdered in the name of a god than for any other reason.
…
…

Kindly prove this assertion. I’ll let the rest go as rambling opinions, but this one you need to prove.

 

[_A]

Did you look at the photograph I posted, A?

I didn’t see a photograph of your god on that page. Why not just post it here?

 

[_A]

Kindly prove this assertion. I’ll let the rest go as rambling opinions, but this one you need to prove.

I would say the crusades, witchhunts and pretty much all the violence you can find in history is backed firmly by one religion or another.
It is tough to know what sort of evidence you will accept. What other reason am I to compare it to?

 

[Pax]

Try Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot for starters.

 

[_A]

Try Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot for starters.

this article
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people… When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited. -Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922

I only looked up Hitler. I suspected that he was doing what he did for a god. I haven’t looked up the others yet.
So far, killing in the name of a god is ahead. Even if Stalin, Mao **and **Pol Pot killed for other reasons, it will be tough to catch up with Hitler and the crusades.
Were you going to try to pass Hitler off as someone who was killing, but NOT for a god ? lol
I said that more people had been killed in the name of a god than for any other reason. Give me another reason people have killed and we can compare.

 

[theistgal]

I said that more people had been killed in the name of a god than for any other reason. Give me another reason people have killed and we can compare.

How about for power, or money, or land/property? Just because Hitler said he was killing “in the name of a god” doesn’t mean that god actually authorised him to do so. Very few of the gods I’ve read about approve of that sort of behaviour.

 

[phooney]

A obviously wasn’t saying that God actually did authorise the killings. It was the belief, but not the belief alone.

 

[_A]

How about for power, or money, or land/property? Just because Hitler said he was killing “in the name of a god” doesn’t mean that god actually authorised him to do so. Very few of the gods I’ve read about approve of that sort of behaviour.

Well, Yahweh loves killing. The OT (before he moved and changed his name) was loaded with your god advising his loyal followers to kill.
That isn’t what I was talking about, though.
I mean that more have been killed IN THE NAME OF GOD (like Hitler or the pope who authorized witch burning for god) than for any other reason.
Do you want to present another reason that people use for killing and hold it up against the number killed in the name of a god?

 

[Jonathan82]

Well, Yahweh loves killing. The OT (before he moved and changed his name) was loaded with your god advising his loyal followers to kill.
That isn’t what I was talking about, though.
I mean that more have been killed IN THE NAME OF GOD (like Hitler or the pope who authorized witch burning for god) than for any other reason.
Do you want to present another reason that people use for killing and hold it up against the number killed in the name of a god?

This guy is obviously has a personal hate against god not just any god but the Christian God. He will take any piece of our sentences and twist it or take a sentence from a paragraph, that will prove the opposite with ought the rest and post it for the sake of arguing. Just watch him do it.

God is greater than anything you could possibly understand.God is the creator of Hitler, like of everything else. What Hitler did is not something new as a matter of fact its happening right now to Muslims in Africa. Bush administration was behind some conspiracies as well that I could go into another time.

Hitler was a human Being with free will and was tempted by the devil because God let it happen. This does not mean that God made him do it or that Hitler was forced to do what he did. Hitler still had a choice to change or to feed in to hate. God will protect you and will also leave you to test your faith.