I am an atheist thread 5

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GraceDK said:
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I read the story of a man who had lost a leg in the war. One day after prayer he woke up and the leg was back on…
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Hi Grace.

I would really like to see the “source” on this story. Can you provide a link ?

Thanks.

Les
 
GraceDK said:
Another similar phenomenon was reported in Egypt in 2000. for days or weeks there was an apparition of the Madonna on a roof of a coptic church. It made many into believers… millions saw it but as has been predicted in Scripture not even the ones who see are willing to believe …
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Hi Grace

Could you provide a source please.

Thank you

Les
 
@Eden
From Wikipedia:…
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Why would nothing be more likely than something?

It seems that I did accurately predict Heller’s position though.
The observable evidence, including the discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation strongly supports Fr. Georges Lemaître’s theory which we refer to now as “the Big Bang”. So, it should be interesting to see Hawking’s version of the infinite cause. It will be just a new twist on an old argument to deny the eternal Creator.
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Stephen Hawking isn’t denying the big bang.
Likewise, I have never seen an atheist present to me a coherent explanation for how the universe and life came into being.
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I don’t care whether it is a theist or an atheist that presents the coherent explanation, as long as the explanation is accompanied by evidence.
The idea that the universe came into existence as a result of a cause, which had a cause, which had a cause, which had a cause, which had a cause, which had a cause, which had a cause ad infinitum is illogical to me
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Not that this has anything to do with atheism of course. We simply don’t know at the moment.
Both the observable evidence (Big Bang) and logic, point toward an eternal Creator who began the series of events that led to the creation of the universe and life.
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Sure, the observable evidence points towards a big bang of some kind, but the current observable evidence doesn’t have much to say about the conditions before the planck time. I think I would have heard if some evidence had been found, because it would be the only thing anybody talked about for a while, and a Nobel prize would be assured for whoever discovered it. For you to say that Heller has answered the question is laughable. Physicists and interested laymen around the world are waiting for such things as the large hadron collider to be completed, which will actually be able to provide experiments that can confirm or deny many of the predictions that are made by currently untestable pre-big bang hypotheses. I don’t think that Heller has secretly completed the LHC, run some tests and then dismantled it again all by himself.
If you can give me a real-world example of something that came from nothing, please do. The idea that the universe came from nothing, but instead has existed in perpetuity, is not a “theory” I can accept as rational.
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Why should I have to do such a thing? This isn’t my position. But, ironically, it is yours isn’t it? That God created the universe out of nothing? Why don’t you bite the bullet yourself, and give me a macro-level example of something that comes from nothing, and isn’t just a transition from one form to another?

Thanks for your comments and links in regards to the Church’s flip-flopping between positions. I already covered your objections though when I said:
phooney when he prophesised what you would say:
Oh, those things weren’t said by the popes in their infallible-mode? Nor by church council? Then what testable claims does it make that have remained consistent and are considered authoritative?
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That article, with no listed sources, regarding Galileo was… I’m not even sure how to describe it. Passing the blame on to Protestants, denial of opposing heliocentrism. What an amazing feat of twisting history. Well done. In what way does putting somebody under house arrest contribute to scientific progress? Even Michael Behe isn’t put under house arrest.
Even the Jews do not take Genesis as describing literal 24-hour earth days. So, where you got the idea that the Church did is beyond me. Back to the CA library:
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It is in the bible, why would they write about 6 days when they intended to write 13-14 billion years? Typo?

As I have already said, if you can take a book and claim it is true, then pick and choose what is historically and scientifically accurate and what is metaphor and allegory, then we could use any book really.
 
mom_of_ten said:
And incidentally,

As to “dogs worship their masters”…an animal is not capable of worship…nor reason, nor loving, nor choice, etc…an animal lives an acts on instinct alone.
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Hi MOM

Could you please provide a “source” for this info?

Thanks.

les
 
lkddav said:
This is nothing but rationalizing an incompetent god.

les
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And this is your opinion…

Do you think man is an all-knowing, all-loving, all-perfect being?

Being at the top of the food chain isn’t an answer, btw…
 
Pier said:
Although I have dear friends who are atheists, I do not understand their viewpoint, and they do not understand mine. We love and respect each other despite our differences, and they always say thank you when I tell them I pray for them.
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Hi Pier.

I’m sorry, but they are overlooking your simple mind.

les
 
phooney said:
Don’t worry, Vocimike. Not many other people have replied to me in equal detail either. If you’re not up to it, you’re not up to it.

I don’t write long posts to be inaccessible, I hope you realise. I write long posts to be thorough and to hopefully head any attempts of intentional and unintentional misinterpretation off at the pass.
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🙂

les
 
phooney said:
Some of you who have been following these “i am an atheist” threads may have noticed that I didn’t post for a week or so.

sniff Nobody noticed, eh?
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Hello phooney.

Actually I noticed, 🙂

Good pics.

les
 
phooney said:
@Ronald E

Actually, Yahweh seemed to reward worship, in particular exclusive worship, with military victory and expansion of territory, and apostacy and polytheism with military defeat and external domination. According to the old testament anway. People have always claimed god was on their side in military conflicts.
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Seemed to is the operative word. Look more closely and you will see that violence is not rewarded. Utimately what was thought to be victory through violence ended with defeat.
Phooney, I like your posts. However, are you using sarcasm at times to dismiss someone’s lack of identifiable proof?
 
_A said:
So how was your god created out of nothing?
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Can I butt in?

Answer: I don’t know.

Question: does that mean God doesn’t exist? And do I have to understand God completely in order for God to exist?

No. God is beyond my understanding.

Another question: does God need my approval? For example, if God chose to command Joshua (of the OT) to go to war, does He need my permission?

No. God is beyond my approval.
 
It seems to me that any philosophical or spiritual system that has any validity begins and ends with the idea of unselfish love as its foundation. The idea of solidarity in which we are here for one another in a mutual sharing for the benefit of each other’s well-being appeals to me most. The particular label is not important if the foundation of one’s meaning in life is based on solidarity.
 
This is nothing but rationalizing an incompetent god.
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Only a “god” could BE incompetent…I am speaking of “God” Who is Omnipotent…Before the first sin…there WAS NO SUFFERING…after the first sin…THERE WAS SUFFERING…simple.
 
Ronald_E said:
It seems to me that any philosophical or spiritual system that has any validity begins and ends with the idea of unselfish love as its foundation. The idea of solidarity in which we are here for one another in a mutual sharing for the benefit of each other’s well-being appeals to me most. The particular label is not important if the foundation of one’s meaning in life is based on solidarity.
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Yes, but who decides the definition of unselfish love? We need Divine Truth in order to determine what’s unselfish. Because of our fallen nature, we can make mistakes. Abortion is an example. Many claim that abortion is unselfish and good.

So we need Christ’s Church. Divine Truth comes to us through the Catholic Church. Period. Other religions can have truth to some extent or another, but all truth comes to us through the Church.

Every Ahteist and every Agnostic worships a god. Whatever comes first in their lives takes the place of God, but it’s impossible for a human being not to have a God. We’re hard wired for God.
 
mom_of_ten said:
Only a “god” could BE incompetent…I am speaking of “God” Who is Omnipotent…Before the first sin…there WAS NO SUFFERING…after the first sin…THERE WAS SUFFERING…simple.
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So what was the first sin??
 
Jacafamala said:
Yes, but who decides the definition of unselfish love? We need Divine Truth in order to determine what’s unselfish. Because of our fallen nature, we can make mistakes. Abortion is an example. Many claim that abortion is unselfish and good.

So we need Christ’s Church. Divine Truth comes to us through the Catholic Church. Period. Other religions can have truth to some extent or another, but all truth comes to us through the Church.

Every Ahteist and every Agnostic worships a god. Whatever comes first in their lives takes the place of God, but it’s impossible for a human being not to have a God. We’re hard wired for God.
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I am going to Mass now and I will go into detail later. However, Christ said that He would put his spirit into the hearts of everyone and those who do not know Him make choices about how they live out their lives based on how open they are in to their hearts. To those who do believe in Jesus we are expected to live our lives as an example of Christ’s love and consequently, much is expected of us. If we do not live our as sacrificial love then we give evidence that our God is not a God of Love.
I know there are many holes in this, but I am leaving now.
 
So what was the first sin
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That is unrelated and completely beside the point regarding the origin of suffering in the world. It does not matter WHAT the first sin was…it stands that before the first sin, suffering did not exist, and after it, it did. God did not create suffering…but, in His Mercy, has given us a way to bring good out of the bad; hence, suffering for its own sake, is in vain…but suffering offered as a prayer and united to the suffering of Christ on the Cross brings the grace of Christ’s merit; and therefore, becomes a vehicle for GOOD.
 
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