I am an atheist thread 5

[macian]

Like i said earlier, He must be very vain to create a race of man to Love him and bow to his every wim,
Slavery springs to mind, Your ok as long as you do as your told or you face the hell thing if you dont, Throughout history people have use the God thing to put points across,
If you put a group of people on a island and never told them about God then Its proven that they would invent 1…
Its in mans nature to need a leader or idol.

It’s interesting that you call it slavery to obey God; Catholics would understand this in the exact opposite sense. Man was created to act in a certain way, to obey certain innate moral laws. It is the man who disobeys his nature who becomes a slave to his own sense of sin. We would say God is not punishing us for the sake of punishing us, but He wants us to act in accord with our created nature because it is thus we will find the true path to happiness. This requires recognition of our own place in the universe with respect to God.

 

[whiteknite]

Some of us have popstars as our idol/some have our dads’mums/some movie stars or even friends its in our nature to look upto someone. People found living on islands in the middle of the pacific created there own Gods. Mostly they worshiped thing that we can see, Like the Sun/Moon/Planets etc…MAN CANT HELP IT… Its in our DNA:thumbsup:

 

[Pier]

Some of us have popstars as our idol/some have our dads’mums/some movie stars or even friends its in our nature to look upto someone. People found living on islands in the middle of the pacific created there own Gods. Mostly they worshiped thing that we can see, Like the Sun/Moon/Planets etc…MAN CANT HELP IT… Its in our DNA:thumbsup:

God is well aware of our nature (He’s the One who created it, after all)

This would be why He gave us the Ten Commandments.

Btw, great posts Eden!

& hi again, A!

 

[whiteknite]

God is well aware of our nature (He’s the One who created it, after all)

This would be why He gave us the Ten Commandments.

Btw, great posts Eden!

& hi again, A!

The ten commandments are!! Didnt 1 of them 10 commandments, Thou shall not kill???
After recieving his 10 commandments, Didnt moses have the le’vi slaughter 3 thousand men women and children??
Or are you gonna tell me that was a spiritual text??

 

[VociMike]

Have you ever played ‘god of the gaps’? The gaps are getting fewer.

God of the Gaps is an unconvincing argument, because, as you note and as any Christian who does not set faith and reason in opposition will agree, the gaps are becoming fewer and fewer.

So the focus should be on God of the First Cause, God of the First Explanation. That which, by definition, has no cause, cannot be explained, and from which all other causes and explanations flow. And this is the reality that atheists gloss over, or even worse, think that science will someday explain (in which case, it wouldn’t be the First Explanation! )

So the question is, is it possible for the First Explanation to be of the natural world, or must it be of the supernatural world, outside of the natural world?

If you try to give a full description of your god, you will see that it has much in common with an imaginary god that doesn’t really exist.

I might have much in common with Tom Sawyer or Luke Skywalker or Mr. Magoo, but just because they don’t exist doesn’t mean I don’t exist. Would you accept the fact that many imaginary gods aren’t like the Christian God as evidence that the Christian God exists? I didn’t think so.

 

[whiteknite]

God of the Gaps is an unconvincing argument, because, as you note and as any Christian who does not set faith and reason in opposition will agree, the gaps are becoming fewer and fewer.

So the focus should be on God of the First Cause, God of the First Explanation. That which, by definition, has no cause, cannot be explained, and from which all other causes and explanations flow. And this is the reality that atheists gloss over, or even worse, think that science will someday explain (in which case, it wouldn’t be the First Explanation! )

So the question is, is it possible for the First Explanation to be of the natural world, or must it be of the supernatural world, outside of the natural world?

I might have much in common with Tom Sawyer or Luke Skywalker or Mr. Magoo, but just because they don’t exist doesn’t mean I don’t exist. Would you accept the fact that many imaginary gods aren’t like the Christian God as evidence that the Christian God exists? I didn’t think so.

That dont explain if your God exists.
And why end your sentence in “I didnt think so” The guy never answered you. So how can you say “I didnt think so” for??

 

[Pier]

The ten commandments are!! Didnt 1 of them 10 commandments, Thou shall not kill???
After recieving his 10 commandments, Didnt moses have the le’vi slaughter 3 thousand men women and children??
Or are you gonna tell me that was a spiritual text??

Did Moses do that?

 

[whiteknite]

Did Moses do that?

He instructed it to happen…

 

[VociMike]

That dont explain if your God exists.

No, but it makes one point and brings up another. It makes the point that atheism rests every bit as much on faith (things not proved and not explainable) as does theism. Atheists hate to think their position is based on faith, but it is and they should face that truth.

And it raises the question as to whether this uncaused First Cause, this unexplainable First Explanation can be of the natural world, or whether it must lie outside of the natural world.

I invite you to comment on both points raised above.

And why end your sentence in “I didnt think so” The guy never answered you. So how can you say “I didnt think so” for??

Are you kidding me? Read what I wrote and tell me if you honestly think he might answer “Why, yes!”

 

[Pier]

He instructed it to happen…

“He,” Who?

 

[whiteknite]

“He,” Who?

Moses!
Exodus 32:27 And he said to them: Thus saith the Lord God of Israel: Put every man his sword upon his thigh: go, and return from gate to gate through the midst of the camp, and let every man kill his brother, and friend, and neighbour.
So now your going to tell me it was a spiritual meaning??

 

[VociMike]

Moses!
Exodus 32:27 And he said to them: Thus saith the Lord God of Israel: Put every man his sword upon his thigh: go, and return from gate to gate through the midst of the camp, and let every man kill his brother, and friend, and neighbour.
So now your going to tell me it was a spiritual meaning??

I’m curious, if this were all made up and if what you cite is truly a contradiction, don’t you think the people making it up would have noticed the contradiction? If they were just inventing a myth about a perfect, all-good being, would they really be so stupid to write “God says don’t do X” in one place, and “God says do X” in another?

 

[GraceDK]

As for a God, Hes shown nothing to prove himself in my life time but just a load of people killing in his name…
…

The question to pose to an atheist is this though: why do you assume there is anything wrong with killing in the name of religion?

I would advice any atheist to read the works of Løgstrup, a Danish philosopher. He talks for one thing about
Spontaneous life-utterances by which he means the way that human beings respond to each other with trust, before anything else. He says this by pointing to the method of the SS-officer who sneaks in on the subject of his interrogation by means of pretending to being understanding and trustworthy… the subject has to fight the natural inclination of trust and to expose what she knows in the face of this cunning… because at the core, humans trust before they distrust.

But here is the more substantial thought for your brains:
Turn the teodice (problem of evil) up side down and you have the real question: the problem of joy. How do you explain the basic feeling in man that life is worth living? How do you explain that whereas joy is not experienced as an intruder into your existence, evil and catastrophe is?

The problem of asking about why there is evil in the world… shows exactly that suffering is intimately linked with joy,… The eistence of joy is vividly felt in its absense… the expectation of how it should be… and how you long for that… in its non-presense its very evident but if you have joy you fast take it for granted.

We are then found out when we say we dont believe in anything… ergo life holds no meaning, and yet our expectations are dissapointed… We ASSUMED before anything, that life was worth living. But who told us that it is?

So I urge you gentlemen to consider “the problem of joy” or as Løgstrup calls it: the nihilodice.

As for me, I find it most plausible that there is a God… in terms of all the things I have experienced and seen in my human life I see nothing more logical than to assume the existence of a God… indeed the Christian God… but thats another story.

 

[whiteknite]

I’m curious, if this were all made up and if what you cite is truly a contradiction, don’t you think the people making it up would have noticed the contradiction? If they were just inventing a myth about a perfect, all-good being, would they really be so stupid to write “God says don’t do X” in one place, and “God says do X” in another?

Exodus 32:28:
JW version:-
And the sons of Le’vi proceeded to do as moses had said, So that there fell of the people on that dayabout three thousand…

King James version:-
And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

Catholic version:-
And the sons of Levi did according to the words of Moses, and there were slain that day about three and twenty thousand men.

Are all made up stories??

 

[whiteknite]

Grace did you read my Signiture, I am not atheist. I have questions that you or no religous person can EVER answer but im not getting into that because you all have stupid answers for your believe…

 

[VociMike]

Exodus 32:28:
JW version:-
And the sons of Le’vi proceeded to do as moses had said, So that there fell of the people on that dayabout three thousand…

King James version:-
And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

Catholic version:-
And the sons of Levi did according to the words of Moses, and there were slain that day about three and twenty thousand men.

Are all made up stories??

Well, if God doesn’t exist then the parts about God are necessarily made up. That has nothing to do with the historic parts. So, if God does not exist, why did the people making up these stories insert what appear to you to be such obvious contradictions? It’s a simple question, one that any first-year writing student would be called on by his teacher.

 

[GraceDK]

Grace did you read my Signiture, I am not atheist. I have questions that you or no religous person can EVER answer but im not getting into that because you all have stupid answers for your believe…

My sister met a man who believed in free thinking too… nothing wrong with that.
He did not believe himself chained by any particular world view. One day he went up in the tower in Pisa and looked at the sun going up and he thought: I am the king of my life and doing great at it.
BAM he was struck to the ground by an extreme force… a presense from the sky… as he laid there on the ground he heard these words: “I am Jesus Christ, I exist”.
He said:" I dont know how long I was there on my face but when I went down the sun was setting and I was never the same again. I recognized the same presense in the Catholic Church a while later."

A similar story was told to me by a hasidid friend… a jew in the strictest Jewish upbringing… out of curiosity he one day went into a Catholic Church… " I should never have done that" -he laughed… cos the presense of God that he felt there blew him off his feet and his life was changed since then. No one was there, he said… But SOMEONE was there…

I have met so many people with similar stories… I even met a woman who died and went to heaven and came back.

Fantastic stories you may say… yeah whatever… until you experience them your self Hehe… so I have great hope for you.
If you are really an objective person and a free spirit you wont have difficulty saying :" GOD if you are really there… prove yourself to me!".

But be careful… I heard about a guy who did this in his bakery one morning… and some crazy things happend to him… heheh…

 

[whiteknite]

Well, if God doesn’t exist then the parts about God are necessarily made up. That has nothing to do with the historic parts. So, if God does not exist, why did the people making up these stories insert what appear to you to be such obvious contradictions? It’s a simple question, one that any first-year writing student would be called on by his teacher.

They made up the bible because, Theses people need an idol.
They cant do nothing without the assurance that they are doing things right.
Its in the human genes to need praise or praise some one [SomeThing] in other to feel satisfied.
Mum/Dad/Kids/Grandparents/moviestars/Popstars…etc…
Some go googly eyed over the idea of worship [Hence the Bible]

 

[Ronald_E]

Exodus 32:28:
JW version:-
And the sons of Le’vi proceeded to do as moses had said, So that there fell of the people on that dayabout three thousand…

King James version:-
And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

Catholic version:-
And the sons of Levi did according to the words of Moses, and there were slain that day about three and twenty thousand men.

Are all made up stories??

Pardon me for jumping in. When I just read these quotes what jumped out at me were these words “…according to the words of Moses…”
Could it be that Moses’ interpretation of the word of God led to this slaughter?
Also, going back to the story of Noah after the flood he was told that every man who killed another man would be held responsible. When you read futher about the kings of Israel every one of them suffered consequences when they used violence to resolve their problems.

 

[whiteknite]

My sister met a man who believed in free thinking too… nothing wrong with that.
He did not believe himself chained by any particular world view. One day he went up in the tower in Pisa and looked at the sun going up and he thought: I am the king of my life and doing great at it.
BAM he was struck to the ground by an extreme force… a presense from the sky… as he laid there on the ground he heard these words: “I am Jesus Christ, I exist”.
He said:" I dont know how long I was there on my face but when I went down the sun was setting and I was never the same again. I recognized the same presense in the Catholic Church a while later."

A similar story was told to me by a hasidid friend… a jew in the strictest Jewish upbringing… out of curiosity he one day went into a Catholic Church… " I should never have done that" -he laughed… cos the presense of God that he felt there blew him off his feet and his life was changed since then. No one was there, he said… But SOMEONE was there…

I have met so many people with similar stories… I even met a woman who died and went to heaven and came back.

Fantastic stories you may say… yeah whatever… until you experience them your self Hehe… so I have great hope for you.
If you are really an objective person and a free spirit you wont have difficulty saying :" GOD if you are really there… prove yourself to me!".

But be careful… I heard about a guy who did this in his bakery one morning… and some crazy things happend to him… heheh…

I died 3 times about 4yrs back and never witnessed nothing so maybe i am doing the right kind of thinking…
Free thinking doesnt always revolve around the bible…
There are other things to think of…