I am an atheist thread 5

[whiteknite]

Pardon me for jumping in. When I just read these quotes what jumped out at me were these words “…according to the words of Moses…”
Could it be that Moses’ interpretation of the word of God led to this slaughter?
Also, going back to the story of Noah after the flood he was told that every man who killed another man would be held responsible. When you read futher about the kings of Israel every one of them suffered consequences when they used violence to resolve their problems.

Noah was a drunk so i wouldnt take his word for anything…

As for the Moses thing, I only read it in your bible m8 so if that has you questions your bible then you should read it again. And again, Until you realise it was wrote by man for man on behalf of man…

 

[GraceDK]

I died 3 times about 4yrs back and never witnessed nothing so maybe i am doing the right kind of thinking…
Free thinking doesnt always revolve around the bible…
There are other things to think of…

Sure… you can spend your time looking at a straw of grass and how it grows… You are free to do this.
As for me I cant find anything more interesting - that I may come up with in my own mind - than Sublime Love, personalised in Jesus Christ.

Hm…you died but saw nothing… maybe God would like you to have the merit of the unseeing who still believes.
… one of my good friends (another one from the one I mentioned before… she actually met Christ) saw a huge angel when he was in a drowning accident. Another really close friend saw an angel on her balcony… he was quite much taller than her and his wings were huge. She was so frightened by him that she started running even though she was partly lame in her legs…

I read the testimony of an atheist who saw an angel when he got lost in the wilderness in Norway and was near dying.
He decided that he still did not want to believe though even though he admitted that the angel was real.

 

[mariyka]

Its in the human genes to need praise or praise some one [SomeThing] in other to feel satisfied.

Where do you think this urge comes from, since it doesn’t seem to occur in the rest of the animal kingdom? Why are humans the only species that worship or believe in something more than they are? It’s something that seems evolutionarily non-adaptive, but it’s historically found in all human societies.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[whiteknite]

Sure… you can spend your time looking at a straw of grass and how it grows… You are free to do this.
As for me I cant find anything more interesting - that I may come up with in my own mind - than Sublime Love, personalised in Jesus Christ.

Hm…you died but saw nothing… maybe God would like you to have the merit of the unseeing who still believes.
… one of my good friends (another one from the one I mentioned before… she actually met Christ) saw a huge angel when he was in a drowning accident. Another really close friend saw an angel on her balcony… he was quite much taller than her and his wings were huge. She was so frightened by him that she started running even though she was partly lame in her legs…

I read the testimony of an atheist who saw an angel when he got lost in the wilderness in Norway and was near dying.
He decided that he still did not want to believe though even though he admitted that the angel was real.

The human mind can see anything it wants if you believe in enough…
Ever heard the expression " Be careful what you wish for"

 

[whiteknite]

Where do you think this urge comes from, since it doesn’t seem to occur in the rest of the animal kingdom? Why are humans the only species that worship or believe in something more than they are? It’s something that seems evolutionarily non-adaptive, but it’s historically found in all human societies.

Any thoughts on this?

Animals are dominant yes??
Some need a pack leader yes??
The dominant 1s are the 1s that see themselfs and surounding’s as there kingdom. [Territorial]
The pack leaders are the form of worship, Animals bow to them to show respect…

 

[VociMike]

They made up the bible because, Theses people need an idol.

But I didn’t ask why they made up the bible. I asked why they made up a bible with, according to you and others, obvious contradictions. Were they just dumb? I mean, the ones who made this up were the educated elite, they could actually read and write. And yet they didn’t have enough sense to see that they had written ‘X’ in one spot and ‘not X’ in another? And over the centuries, did nobody notice the contradictions and quietly fix them because they were all dumb too? Was 3000 years of Judaism and 2000 years of Christianity all just dumb?

 

[Pier]

Animals are dominant yes??
Some need a pack leader yes??
The dominant 1s are the 1s that see themselfs and surounding’s as there kingdom. [Territorial]
The pack leaders are the form of worship, Animals bow to them to show respect…

Who’s that person depicted in your signature bowing to?

 

[IHF]

Moses!
Exodus 32:27 And he said to them: Thus saith the Lord God of Israel: Put every man his sword upon his thigh: go, and return from gate to gate through the midst of the camp, and let every man kill his brother, and friend, and neighbour.
So now your going to tell me it was a spiritual meaning??

I find it laughable that you claim to refute the existence of God which then makes any holy book basically a lie…

Then you use the same holy book to prove your claims and say that this is fact. So some passages are true but the ones about God are lies?

So which is it?

Is the Bible factual or not?

You seem to be using the Bible as a reliable source when its passages fit your “facts” and dismiss it as fantasy when it does not.

 

[mariyka]

Animals are dominant yes??
Some need a pack leader yes??
The dominant 1s are the 1s that see themselfs and surounding’s as there kingdom. [Territorial]
The pack leaders are the form of worship, Animals bow to them to show respect…

I see where you are coming from, but it’s not quite what I’m wondering about. To your point, why don’t wolves worship a wolf “god”? Why do humans seem to have that drive? Where does it come from? If not God, then where? If you posit that there is no God, why do we seek for something more? Even an atheist wants to be thought of well after they die,or know they have contributed something to the world. Why do we have that need?

 

[mariyka]

Please excuse. Have to “bow” out for a while.

 

[GraceDK]

The human mind can see anything it wants if you believe in enough…
Ever heard the expression " Be careful what you wish for"

As a scholar in religious science with religious psychology which is extremely anti-religious in my country you can say nothing that I havent heard before. However, your point is fallacious, because there is a limit to the power of the human will (I would say that the human will which uses powers such as the ones you hint at is in contact with demonic powers even if he fails to admit it, and he must beware lest these powers start controlling him and not the other way around. I have a friend who used to be exactly like you until the Holy Spirit fell on him… now whatever advance he has he uses it to glorify the True God)…

Indeed there are holes in your theory… it fails to take into consideration men like Sadhu Sundar Singh who did not know anything about Christ… He was a hindu who called on god in the hour of wanting to kill himself. he did not think anyone would hear his screem but half an hour before his plan to throw himself in front of the train Jesus, the Christ, appeared to him in Person.
He had never even considered the christian faith…
There are so so so many of these testimonies I have heard… both from people of other religions and from people who were sworn atheists. Thank you for reminding me… I am in awe

Too… your power and whatever it stems from ends at the creation from nothing, ex nihilo… Only God can do that.
I read the story of a man who had lost a leg in the war. One day after prayer he woke up and the leg was back on…

I know the human mind is not an entity by it self that is unable to combine itself to others and cause damage or blessing … just be careful who you are dealing with.

 

[whiteknite]

But I didn’t ask why they made up the bible. I asked why they made up a bible with, according to you and others, obvious contradictions. Were they just dumb? I mean, the ones who made this up were the educated elite, they could actually read and write. And yet they didn’t have enough sense to see that they had written ‘X’ in one spot and ‘not X’ in another? And over the centuries, did nobody notice the contradictions and quietly fix them because they were all dumb too? Was 3000 years of Judaism and 2000 years of Christianity all just dumb?

Yes thats right not many could read and write, So no 1 could question what was wrote. I know many people even today that dont realy want to know about millions of subjects. I mean there little brains dont compute LOL
Maybe they where too scared to speak up and question the bible…
It does make alot of threats…
Probley scared the life out of half them.

 

[whiteknite]

Who’s that person depicted in your signature bowing to?

He is bowing to you and anyone who cared to look at it.
Its an anagram of i come in peace…

 

[whiteknite]

I find it laughable that you claim to refute the existence of God which then makes any holy book basically a lie…

Then you use the same holy book to prove your claims and say that this is fact. So some passages are true but the ones about God are lies?

So which is it?

Is the Bible factual or not?

You seem to be using the Bible as a reliable source when its passages fit your “facts” and dismiss it as fantasy when it does not.

If you look to my Sig below it states i’m not an athiest…
I could not even begin to tell you what i believe…

As for the bible quotes, I’m only replying a comment about moses
To the comments made from him, I couldnt take a word of a killer…Who knew what was going through his head when he ordered his commands…
Saddam orders the killing of millions and hes a mad man. Moses does the same and hes idolised…

 

[VociMike]

Yes thats right not many could read and write, So no 1 could question what was wrote.

Really, can’t you do better than that? It is historical fact that the Jewish scriptures (the Old Testament to which you are referring) was read in the synagogue. Just because they couldn’t all read and write doesn’t mean they couldn’t all hear and think “Hey, last week they said God said ‘X’ and this week they say God said ‘not X’! What’s up with that?!”

And that still doesn’t answer why this elite would write something with obvious contradictions. Your answer, that they wrote something with obvious contradictions because hardly anybody could read, is just off the wall. Heck, by your logic, if hardly anybody could read, why did the elite write anything?! Give us something with real substance, please.

 

[whiteknite]

As a scholar in religious science with religious psychology which is extremely anti-religious in my country you can say nothing that I havent heard before. However, your point is fallacious, because there is a limit to the power of the human will (I would say that the human will which uses powers such as the ones you hint at is in contact with demonic powers even if he fails to admit it, and he must beware lest these powers start controlling him and not the other way around. I have a friend who used to be exactly like you until the Holy Spirit fell on him… now whatever advance he has he uses it to glorify the True God)…

Indeed there are holes in your theory… it fails to take into consideration men like Sadhu Sundar Singh who did not know anything about Christ… He was a hindu who called on god in the hour of wanting to kill himself. he did not think anyone would hear his screem but half an hour before his plan to throw himself in front of the train Jesus, the Christ, appeared to him in Person.
He had never even considered the christian faith…
There are so so so many of these testimonies I have heard… both from people of other religions and from people who were sworn atheists. Thank you for reminding me… I am in awe

Too… your power and whatever it stems from ends at the creation from nothing, ex nihilo… Only God can do that.
I read the story of a man who had lost a leg in the war. One day after prayer he woke up and the leg was back on…

I know the human mind is not an entity by it self that is unable to combine itself to others and cause damage or blessing … just be careful who you are dealing with.

All your examples are exactly what i am pointing to but you believe in a higher reason…

Going back a few yrs a little boy was murdered by 2 young boys… The poor little lad was tortured… Where was God OR Jesus when we needed him…
I know your gonna say he dont work that way. But He will appear to someone who is gonna kill himself…etc…

 

[whiteknite]

No body else witnesses thses things but just the person involved…
Why doesnt that suprise me…
Like i said Its all in the head…

 

[whiteknite]

Really, can’t you do better than that? It is historical fact that the Jewish scriptures (the Old Testament to which you are referring) was read in the synagogue. Just because they couldn’t all read and write doesn’t mean they couldn’t all hear and think “Hey, last week they said God said ‘X’ and this week they say God said ‘not X’! What’s up with that?!”

And that still doesn’t answer why this elite would write something with obvious contradictions. Your answer, that they wrote something with obvious contradictions because hardly anybody could read, is just off the wall. Heck, by your logic, if hardly anybody could read, why did the elite write anything?! Give us something with real substance, please.

Im not sure your reading what i wrote correctly…
Then you tell me why they contradict themselfves…
Go on educate me.

 

[GraceDK]

All your examples are exactly what i am pointing to but you believe in a higher reason…

Going back a few yrs a little boy was murdered by 2 young boys… The poor little lad was tortured… Where was God OR Jesus when we needed him…
I know your gonna say he dont work that way. But He will appear to someone who is gonna kill himself…etc…

Okay… so here you pose the teodice-argument that I adressed to you on the other page… … But here is the more substantial thought for your brains:
Turn the teodice (problem of evil) up side down and you have the real question: the problem of joy. How do you explain the basic feeling in man that life is worth living? How do you explain that whereas joy is not experienced as an intruder into your existence, evil and catastrophe is?

The problem of asking about why there is evil in the world… shows exactly that suffering is intimately linked with joy,… The eistence of joy is vividly felt in its absense… the expectation of how it should be… and how you long for that… in its non-presense its very evident but if you have joy you are fast to take it for granted.

We are then found out when we say we dont believe in anything… ergo life holds no meaning, and yet our expectations are dissapointed… We ASSUMED before anything, that life was worth living. But who told us that it is?

So I urge you gentlemen to consider “the problem of joy” or as Løgstrup calls it: the nihilodice.

…That is what I said… If you ask the question of teodice you are in all actuality blaming a god on an absurd premises and you are, whether you like it or not, taking it for granted that such an arguement makes sense… But it does not unless you basically unconsciously believe you are a created being…

 

[Pier]

If you look to my Sig below it states i’m not an athiest…
I could not even begin to tell you what i believe…

As for the bible quotes, I’m only replying a comment about moses
To the comments made from him, I couldnt take a word of a killer…Who knew what was going through his head when he ordered his commands…
Saddam orders the killing of millions and hes a mad man. Moses does the same and hes idolised…

God will judge the sins of man.

Read on to:
Exodus 32:34&35.

newadvent.org/bible/exo032.htm