I am an atheist.

[NotReligous]

Hello. As the title says, I am indeed an atheist. I hope you allow me to post on these forums.

So why am I here? Well, I wanted to know if there is any reason for me to believe in a god. Most of the people here are Catholics, and it is one of the biggest religions, so I came here.

So what I want any of you to do, is to tell me good reasons to believe in god, and reply to my questions. (posted below) If you don’t want to read my story, at least try to answer the questions I posted.

First let me tell you a bit about myself. I was raised in a very religious (catholic) family, and naturally I believed in god, and did not question anything my parents told me about the catholic lifestyle. Unfortunately for my faith, I happened to be created with such DNA, that my mind developed to be very skeptic. I loved debunking other religions and supernatural beings, and laughed at the ease of destroying these things. But I never questioned my own religion, for I thought it to be “obviously” the correct one.

I was, and still am very scientific, math, chemistry, physics, biology…these I love. Church was torture to me. Repeating the same things all over again…driving ours back and forth each week… (we didn’t have a church nearby) I was even brought to a catholic school almost every weekend. All of it was incredibly dull, but as a good student, I always was at the top of the class. At that point my faith was very strong too, which helped to combat the dullness.

But as children grow, they get smarter. I was no exception. Indeed, by the age of 13, I knew there was something fishy going on. I began to wonder certain things about the catholic faith, and I when I asked my parents, they usually gave a answer that made no sense at all, or yelled at me. I began to ask myself the same questions I had previously asked about other religions, I noticed I had absolutely no answer to them. This was pretty hard on me. I convinced myself that there must be answers to the questions, but I just don’t know them.

I began to notice the huge difference between science and religion. I was thinking thoughts like these; “All these scientific things have clear rules, results, proof and logic, why doesn’t religion work like that? How can we claim to know these things? (about god) How does our religion differ from all the rest? We don’t have any more proof than the rest…”

At this point I started to beg for proof. I searched for it everywhere. I wanted to hear the miracles, and see the undeniable work of god. …Man I was let down! Not only I found nothing to proof the existence of god, but I found out about the history of the catholic church. How it effected science, and still does. (currently it effects evolution, yes I know only some Catholics don’t believe in it, but still a pretty huge percentage)

So I started to look what the atheists had to say. The minute I saw them speak, I knew that my faith was beaten. They made all the sense religion didn’t. I was like a child, who had just been told there is no Santa Claus. There was no turning back, and I don’t see how there ever will be.

Now I started to learn more about atheist arguments. (I can’t say ‘learn more about atheism’, for atheism only the disbelief of godly beings, nothing more, so it can not be learned further than that) I couldn’t answer them, nor can any believer I have ever met. (or heard of) So right now I am as atheist as can be. No faith left in me what so ever. And I have learned more I could have ever imagined.

---

A few questions; (please do answer) Note; Don’t get nervous, or start sending insults, if you can’t answer, then simply admit it. (I have always tried to do so)

1. Why do you believe in god?
   1.1 How is your religion different from any others?
   1.2 Do you actually have any logical reason to believe in god?

• 1. Do you believe that god will send me to hell, even if I live my life really well, but I just don’t believe in him?
     2.1 Do you think this is just?
     2.2 Would you do the same?

1. For what would you send a person for **eternal ** torture?
   3.1 Would you send your child, who you love, also there?

1. Why do you think religion tends to contradict science?
   4.1 Do you think science tends to be correct, in fact a lot more than religion? (if no, why not?)

1. Do you think bible is the source of all moral?
   5.1 If so, how do you explain my moral?

1. Do you think the ten commandments are perfect, and more than enough to guide your life?
   6.1 If so, what would you do in the following situation? "You are at a railroad track. The train is coming, and far ahead, you can see five persons in it’s way. The persons can not hear you nor the train. (they are wearing headphones, they can’t hear, I don’t know) The persons are not moving, and will soon be hit by the train. You have only one chance saving them. Next to you there is a switch. By pulling the switch, the train will change track. But on this other track is also one other person, who will be hit by the train. Will you save the five persons, but kill the other one?

You see, the bible states, ‘thou shalt not kill’, yet on this and similar situations, you must use your own judgment.

6.2 And what if the other person on the second track is your mother/father/child?

These are some of the very basic questions, that I will ask you. Please reply to them.

 

[Davidoa]

Tell me how the first atom got into this universe

This link should help you a little bit
catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/keyword/atheism

 

[MaryBernard]

1. I believe in God because all the evidence tells me He exists. I’m Catholic. Logically, the universe could not be so well ordered without an intelligence behind it.
2. I don’t know if you’re going to heaven or hell. That is for God to decide.
3. I would not send anyone to eternal torture. I’m not God and not qualified to take over His job.
4. I’m assuming you mean the Bible contradicts science. That’s because it’s not meant to be a science book. Comparing religious truth and scientific truth is like comparing an elephant to a mouse.
5. God is the source of all morals.
6. The ten commandments are an excellent guide for us to live our lives.
   Your scenario is nothing but a setup. No matter what answer is given, you’re probably going to ask why the other’s lives are less important. So my only answer is that it is not up to me to decide who lives or dies.

 

[NotReligous]

Tell me how the first atom got into this universe

Haha, I knew this question would come. Nevertheless, I shall answer it. First thing though, you did not reply to my questions, shame on you!

The short answer is; “I don’t know.” And before you start jumping for joy in your chair, I will tell you that you don’t know either. You say that god created it. But you don’t have any proof that god actually created it. You say it is because we don’t know anything that could have created the universe, so it must have been god. Well…no. You only presume god created the universe. As long as you have no proof, of the specific thing that created the universe, your ‘god’ does not mean anything.

Let me explain. Scientists don’t know what created the universe. They only say; “Something created it.” You say that that something is ‘god’. But as long as you don’t define your god, and give proof why it must be ** that** particular god, you are also saying; “something created it.” Why? Because god can mean so many different things. I can say my socks are god! God can be defined as anything, therefore it does translate to; ‘something created it’.

In short; As long as you don’t define your god, and give proof to this definition, I could as well say that fairies created the universe. (they both have equal amount of proof) Both were also discovered by man about the same time . (I think invented)

And also, not knowing something, does not give an excuse to say; “Well, we don’t know what did it, so…god must have done it…yes!” This is how religion began to exist…to explain things that seemed supernatural. (stars, fire, etc.)

If you have further questions, I’ll be happy to reply.

 

[FaithJoy]

If you are very interested in science, like I am. You would find interest in this video. youtube.com/watch?v=EN2oc7l1mPU&feature=related
You must have faith in what you believe , that there is no God. The reason is that you have no proof in fossil records of evolution and the big bang depends on the faith that a singularity appeared from no where with no cause.
My faith is from believing God is the cause of creation, a being not from this universe,from another reality that is not dependent on time and space.
My faith ,stating that way, seems a lot less of a big jump of faith.In other words, more understandable reason why God is the creator.

 

[the_7th_one]

God, in my view, does not send people to Hell. They send themselves. In the Bible, at one point talks about on the last day every knee shall bend and every toung confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. It is my view that some will do so out of Love for God or reverance and awe, but some in anger and fear, and others in a view of the whole thing not being real. I found a story written by CS Lewis on this topic realy got me thinking about it several years ago. The Story was called THE GREAT DIVORCE

As for the part of why belive, Newton’s 3rd Law. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So every event is a reaction to one or more events and will in turn cause one or more events as a reaction. So the question comes, what of the first event? What caused it. This source, under this line of reason, fits a basic definition of God. You then procdeed to the next question of “Who/what is God?”

 

[Lapey]

After a quick read, I see two themes in your post; 1.) That religion and God contradict science; 2.) That God would condemn someone whom He loves to hell.

Both of these premises are incorrect. IF man has it right, the theory of evolution, do you really think everything came to be accidentally? If so, are we accidents?

Secondly, God condemns no one to the torture of hell. If you end up separated from God, it would be completely your choice. God will still be there calling out your name up and until the time of your death. If you continue to reject Him then you send yourself to damnation, it’s completely your choice.

I will take your challenge and work on a response; hopefully I will be able to get back here by noon.

Have a God day, whether you believe in Him or not!!!

Peace
Gary

 

[Davidoa]

If you not sure what started the Universe and as you said scientists say it was ‘something’ this would mean your not 100% sure if it was God or not. Therefore wouldn’t this make you Agnostic? and I will answer some of your questions in a min

 

[catholic-rcia]

This may help…groundwork

"When I was just twenty it gave me great satisfaction that I managed to read, and understand, the Ten Categories of Aristotle without a teacher. I would mention the book at every opportunity, slipping the title in with a touch of awe, smiling to myself when lecturers would comment how difficult it had been for them to answer it.

And much good it did me! Indeed, it was harmful, because it encouraged me to think of You, O Lord, as if you were part of what you had made, instead of being its essence and origin. Sadly, I had my back toward the light and my eyes fixed on the darkness. I could understand without difficulty logic, rhetoric, geometry, music, and arithmetic, but I did not see that my intelligence itself was a gift of God and that all the true things I learned came from him, their source. What advantage was it to me that I had a nimble wit when all the while I turned from good and clung to evil? Little did I realize then how much better off were all those (as I saw them) “simple” souls who lacked my native intelligence but put their trust in God …Saint Augustine

Lord, you are not pleased with someone simply because that person is knowledgeable. In fact, it would be possible for one to know everything there is to know in the whole wide world, except for knowing you, and consequently know nothing. Just as another person could live in blissful ignorance of the great sum of human knowledge, but know you, and be both happy and content. After all, who is better placed - the person who owns a tree and gives You thanks for all the good things it provides; or the one who owns a similar tree and knows its weight and dimensions down to the least leaf, but does not realize that You are its Creator and that it is through You that he or she has use of it? In essence, the latter person is ignorant, though full of facts, and the former person wise, though bit short on details.
…Saint Augustine

 

[NotReligous]

1. I believe in God because all the evidence tells me He exists. I’m Catholic. Logically, the universe could not be so well ordered without an intelligence behind it.

And what is this evidence that god tells you? Also the universe is not ‘well ordered’, it is 99.9999% deserted, and useless for life. There is absolutely no visible design in our universe. If you disagree, tell me examples of this design.

1. I don’t know if you’re going to heaven or hell. That is for God to decide.

As a catholic, you should be very able of telling me what you think god according to bible would do to me. So yes, you do know.

1. I would not send anyone to eternal torture. I’m not God and not qualified to take over His job.

You are kind of dodging my question here by saying that ‘I can not judge god’. What do** you** as an intelligent being think of this act? If you can’t think by yourself, it is a big problem.

1. I’m assuming you mean the Bible contradicts science. That’s because it’s not meant to be a science book. Comparing religious truth and scientific truth is like comparing an elephant to a mouse.

Indeed. And if it contradicts science (which is backed up with proof, logic, reasoning and real world) what does that make of religion?

1. God is the source of all morals.

Even for me? Then why do our morals differ? (about sex, etc.)

1. The ten commandments are an excellent guide for us to live our lives.
   Your scenario is nothing but a setup. No matter what answer is given, you’re probably going to ask why the other’s lives are less important. So my only answer is that it is not up to me to decide who lives or dies.

Wait, wait, wait. If the ten commandments are perfect, you’ll be able to use them to answer my scenario. (things like these do happen) If not, they are not perfect. So don’t dodge the question. (as you did)

 

[Davidoa]

1.I Believe in God because I Believe in love and he is the only one who TRULY gives peace within your heart
2. You be the judge
3. I’m not God
4. If you look up history DEEPLY you will be surprised on how many monks, priests have come up with many theories and so on that are used in science today.
5. Catholics are not sola scriptura’s ( Bible only)
6. 10 commandments can help you in your life but not by itself.

 

[Stylites]

And also, not knowing something, does not give an excuse to say; “Well, we don’t know what did it, so…god must have done it…yes!” This is how religion began to exist…to explain things that seemed supernatural. (stars, fire, etc.)

Likewise, not knowing something does not give us an excuse to say: “Well, we don’t know what did it, so therefore there is no God - no!”

Science is unable to explain something so basic to human nature as why you love your mother (whom I haven’t seen and therefore must believe does not exist, by the way. When you are honest with yourself you will come to the conclusion that atheism is a religion, albeit a false one).

Other points to consider: true religions are created by people who were close to God, not by people who needed to explain the physical universe.

If you are moral then you’d have to consider the fact that you were raised hearing the 10 Commandments and received religious training - these moral leanings do not happen in a vacuum or independent of 2,000 years of Christian civilization.

And lastly: There’s no need to seek God; if you are earnest for the truth then God will seek you.

 

[NotReligous]

If you are very interested in science, like I am. You would find interest in this video. youtube.com/watch?v=EN2oc7l1mPU&feature=related
You must have faith in what you believe , that there is no God. The reason is that you have no proof in fossil records of evolution and the big bang depends on the faith that a singularity appeared from no where with no cause.
My faith is from believing God is the cause of creation, a being not from this universe,from another reality that is not dependent on time and space.
My faith ,stating that way, seems a lot less of a big jump of faith.In other words, more understandable reason why God is the creator.

I did not understand your point. Could you please try to explain, why I need faith more than you? (in a more clear way?)

What do you mean by; “You must have faith in what you believe , that there is no God. The reason is that you have no proof in fossil records of evolution and the big bang depends on the faith that a singularity appeared from no where with no cause.” Really, I didn’t get it.

And for the big bang thing, see my other post.

 

[MaryBernard]

I gave you my answers and you’re telling me I’m wrong. You’re post shows how little you know of Catholic theology. My biggest reason for saying this is that you should know that humans have no way of judging others. I cannot judge your heart or your intentions, so have no way of being able to judge you.

I get the impression that you’re just trying to start an argument to show how “stupid” the religious people are. I really don’t see that you’re hear to learn anything.

There are no answers that will satisfy you, so I’m not going to waste my time anymore.

 

[phoooiee]

1. God is Love, and Truth. Obviously everyone believes in love and truth despite these not being measurable, therefore it is equally reasonable to believe in God.
   1.1. Catholicism is different from other religions because it is fuller and freer from error. According to the Church, God works through all religions, however no other religion has Jesus Christ, the fullest revelation possible- God in human form,.
   1.2. When I follow the Church’s teachings faithfully, even at times when they don’t make sense to me at first, I perceive that I become kinder and more at peace. Since others around me, even non-Catholics, also perceive this change, I know that I am not delusional.
2. No. The Church does not even say this. Furthermore, the Church teaches that hell is the absence of God. So if someone actively chooses to reject God, then obviously they will be without God. It is not possible for humans to have free will without this choice being possible. If you would like more discussion on this, since it is kind of a big topic, please ask.
3. I would not send a person to eternal torture. However I do believe I am bound to respect other people’s choices, and if a person chooses to do something that hurts them, I cannot prevent them without violating their human dignity (it’s quite different if a person is mentally ill and not aware of their choices, as in a suicide attempt).
4. I don’t think that Catholicism contradicts science. There may be some apparent contradictions, but these tend to be resolved over time.
5. No. I think God is the source of all morals. The Bible is a tool which brings us closer to God. We also have the Holy Spirit, and the Church, and Sacred Tradition.
   5.1 God works through all people. Sometimes though there is a problem of definition. If the definition of God that a person has been exposed to is distorted, then obviously a person will not believe what is obviously false.
6. I think that the Ten Commandments are another tool, a very important tool, to support the sentiment of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
   6.1 Honestly, I don’t know. This is an abstract scenario and I am not in it, and people are not logical problems. I do believe that in the extremely unlikely event I were in this situation, the Holy Spirit would guide me and I would know what was best.

I’m going to recommend the following to you:
op-stjoseph.vodspot.tv/
If you go there and find the video entitled “Faith and Reason: Friends or Foes” (added 27 days ago), perhaps you might find it helpful.

More importantly than this, I will recommend the following (as an ex-atheist).

Do an experiment. Set the following:

1. God is Love. Do nothing that you cannot do out of love, no matter what. Follow your conscience (CCC 1782- man must not be forced to act against his conscience). This must be the most important rule, no matter what.
2. Disregard the actions of others and all previous experience. Start over. Redefine your definition of religion. A wonderful place to begin would be the Pray As You Go podcast: pray-as-you-go.org/
   It does a wonderful job of asking insightful questions about one of the daily readings. Based on your post, I think you would like it.
3. Experiment. Pick a Catholic moral idea. Try following it for a little while, see if it makes you better or worse as a person. Try to follow your intution- don’t pick the absolute most difficult thing to accept. It could be something very small, like “turn the other cheek.” This seems to be very obvious, but ask yourself whether this idea would really be a part of our contemporary reality if it were not for Jesus Christ.

Feel free to send me a PM if you just need to talk!

 

[NotReligous]

Likewise, not knowing something does not give us an excuse to say: “Well, we don’t know what did it, so therefore there is no God - no!”

Wai, wait, wait, what?? I never said anything like that! What I am trying to say is, that if there is of proof of god, then it is as smart to believe in him, as it is to believe for example in fairies.

Science is unable to explain something so basic to human nature as why you love your mother (whom I haven’t seen and therefore must believe does not exist, by the way. When you are honest with yourself you will come to the conclusion that atheism is a religion, albeit a false one).

Completely false. Science can explain love. Chemical reactions inside your brain, caused by neurological stimuli. It also involves your memory etc. And in what way is atheism a religion, and why is it false?

Other points to consider: true religions are created by people who were close to God, not by people who needed to explain the physical universe.

Uhh…and what makes you think that these people actually were close to god? For there are millions of religions, and only one of them would be ‘close to god’, why is this one different?

f you are moral then you’d have to consider the fact that you were raised hearing the 10 Commandments and received religious training - these moral leanings do not happen in a vacuum or independent of 2,000 years of Christian civilization.

Hah, so you are saying that people raised in for example a tribal village have no moral? And trust me, even if I had never heard of Christianity, I’d have morals (everyone does)

And lastly: There’s no need to seek God; if you are earnest for the truth then God will seek you.

Mhhm, eh? Nope, that has not worked so far. I am most earnest fot the truth.

 

[NotReligous]

I gave you my answers and you’re telling me I’m wrong. You’re post shows how little you know of Catholic theology. My biggest reason for saying this is that you should know that humans have no way of judging others. I cannot judge your heart or your intentions, so have no way of being able to judge you.

I get the impression that you’re just trying to start an argument to show how “stupid” the religious people are. I really don’t see that you’re hear to learn anything.

There are no answers that will satisfy you, so I’m not going to waste my time anymore.

You have many, many ways of satisfying me.So you are saying, that humans have absolutely no way of knowing if people go to hell…fine? But that still did not answer my question, let me make it simple for you.

“Will god send me to hell, if I don’t believe in him.? If you don’t know, why should you believe in him in the first place?”

And you simply ignored most of my questions…

 

[NotReligous]

So the question comes, what of the first event? What caused it. This source, under this line of reason, fits a basic definition of God. You then procdeed to the next question of “Who/what is God?”

So god is the first cause for our universe. Exactly my point. You have no idea what the first cause is. “God is!” you say. God might be big bang then for me. (first cause we are aware of) if you asked who caused the big bang, and it just happens to be the first cause you are asking (according to your definition) what caused god. Your answer; he has always been…we are back at point one…you have no idea what caused this universe…

If you do, prove it, otherwise you simply are guessing.

 

[NotReligous]

After a quick read, I see two themes in your post; 1.) That religion and God contradict science; 2.) That God would condemn someone whom He loves to hell.

1; Most of the time. 2; Indeed.

Both of these premises are incorrect. IF man has it right, the theory of evolution, do you really think everything came to be accidentally? If so, are we accidents?

Evolution does not work by accident…so no.

Secondly, God condemns no one to the torture of hell. If you end up separated from God, it would be completely your choice. God will still be there calling out your name up and until the time of your death. If you continue to reject Him then you send yourself to damnation, it’s completely your choice.

There is no reason for me to assume he exists, or that he is calling me. This is absolutely not my choice! This is basically saying; “You have millions of options (religions) here, one might be correct, if not you have wasted (depending on religion) your only bet you had, pick one! ”
Seems pretty cruel to me…if you disagree tell me any proofs for god or any religion.

I will take your challenge and work on a response; hopefully I will be able to get back here by noon.

Have a God day, whether you believe in Him or not!!!

Peace
Gary

Thanks.

 

[NotReligous]

If you not sure what started the Universe and as you said scientists say it was ‘something’ this would mean your not 100% sure if it was God or not. Therefore wouldn’t this make you Agnostic? and I will answer some of your questions in a min

Indeed, in the same way I am agnostic to fairies.