I am an atheist.

[mellowcalico]

Hi NotReligious. Here are my answers to your questions. You have to keep in mind that I am a bit of a religious simpleton. I really don’t know my catechism or any of that (I was given a book when I was 9 that I read–I really don’t remember it). But I have read the whole Bible and listen to what Jesus teaches in the Gospels. That’s where I get most of my faith.

1. Why do you believe in god?
   **I am not really sure “why” I believe in God. I guess it’s just something I feel. I know that’s not scientific, but it’s my answer. **

1.1 How is your religion different from any others?
**This really depends–I think everyone sees their religion different. Even two Catholics can be completely different in their views. But like I said, I am a bit of a simpleton… Jesus said that the most important commandment is to love others… so that’s my main focus with religion.
**
1.2 Do you actually have any logical reason to believe in god?
**I suppose you can look for evidence. Take for example love that I just mentioned–as far as I can see, there is no evolutionary reason for it, but yet we have it. And Christianity believes that God is Love Or humor? Why do we get humor?. Or take for example scientific law. Why does it exist? Did it spring out of nothing? Etc.

Science can define what makes up a human and categorize us… but it can’t explain what makes us human.
**

1. Do you believe that god will send me to hell, even if I live my life really well, but I just don’t believe in him?
   **I know I am supposed to say that I am not God and don’t know. But the answer is no, not as I understand things. While I am not well read in the bible, Jesus died to save us from hell. I also think God gives us free will and people pretty much send themselves to hell. **

**As an aside, I also think hell as most people envision it is based off a poem and on person interpretation of hell (Dante’s Inferno). I also believe that God is loving and forgiving and if anyone turns to him for mercy he will show mercy. **

2.1 Do you think this is just?
I think you were assuming if the answer was yes, so I’ll skip this one.

2.2 Would you do the same?
If by show mercy… then yes, of course.

1. For what would you send a person for eternal torture?
   **I would never send anyone for any kind of torture and I have no way to sentence someone to eternal torture… but again, people do it to themselves all the time. People that abuse drugs (as an example) are subjecting themselves to torture in the here an now–they might blame a bunch of other people of influences, but they choose to do it. I think hell is the same way. **

3.1 Would you send your child, who you love, also there?
Nope.

1. Why do you think religion tends to contradict science?
   **Sometimes science contradicts itself–lol. But seriously, they are two different things and they don’t need to be in conflict. I think where they conflict is when one oversteps its role. For example, when religion tries to literally interpret scripture instead of looking at the holistic meaning… or when science tries to challenge religion to prove a negative. If they stay in their respected areas, then they don’t conflict. **

4.1 Do you think science tends to be correct, in fact a lot more than religion? (if no, why not?)
**I really don’t know. I’d have to have a list of all the times science was wrong and all the times religion was wrong. Like I said, science changes all the time… things that were facts when I was a child (like Pluto was a planet) are suddenly wrong now (Pluto is no longer a planet). Or things that were once “proved” to be impossible were debunked. This is because science changes and evolves. **

**Religion also changes as well. When Jesus came, he literally changed the old covenant to a new one. Things that were “proven” religious laws, were changed (Christians can eat pork now for example). **

**Both science and religion are ongoing and changing. But that aside, the purpose of science is to explain the physical world around us and how it works… the purpose of religion is to explain the spiritual. Science should not try to explain the spiritual and religion should not try to explain science.

My post is too long, so I will continue in the next post**

 

[mellowcalico]

1. Do you think bible is the source of all moral?
   No. There are other sources as well. Morals didn’t come about because the Bible was written, they existed first and they were written down. They didn’t suddenly come into being when words were written. And some morals of the Bible existed in other cultures that had no access to the Bible. This means they are universal.

5.1 If so, how do you explain my moral?
**You are immoral!!! Get back Get back!!! LOL, no, just kidding You’ve already been influenced by Christian morality–you said you grew up Catholic. **

1. Do you think the ten commandments are perfect, and more than enough to guide your life?
   **Well, Jesus added to them, so I guess they weren’t perfect. **

6.1 If so, what would you do in the following situation? "You are at a railroad track. The train is coming, and far ahead, you can see five persons in it’s way. The persons can not hear you nor the train. (they are wearing headphones, they can’t hear, I don’t know) The persons are not moving, and will soon be hit by the train. You have only one chance saving them. Next to you there is a switch. By pulling the switch, the train will change track. But on this other track is also one other person, who will be hit by the train. Will you save the five persons, but kill the other one?

I’d switch the train to the one person and shout for him or her to get off the tracks (you didn’t say they couldn’t hear). There is another option too, pull the switch halfway and derail the train. If it’s that near an area where there will be people milling about, then it’s going slow and chances are the locomotive will protect the conductor (assuming it’s not a passenger train).

You see, the bible states, ‘thou shalt not kill’, yet on this and similar situations, you must use your own judgment.

**There is always another option… or maybe I watch too much Dr. Who **

6.2 And what if the other person on the second track is your mother/father/child?

**Kind of a moot question since none of them would just stand on a train track with their back to a train. And besides you feel it coming.

One closing though. A lot of people (both religious and science) think that the two can’t co-exist. I think that’s a fallacy. Sometimes they do conflict, but usually when one tries to explain or define the other. Trying to mix the two is like trying to fit a mathematical equation into a haiku or trying to conduct scientifically measure love.**

 

[NotReligous]

I don’t understand why do you see science and Catholic religion as opposed to/incompatible with each other. I’m religious, Catholic, fully accept all that my Church teaches. I’m also a scientist, have been a professional for 20 years, masters degree in pharmaceutical sciences, Ph.D. in chemistry. I don’t have a problem being a scientist and a faithful Catholic, at the same time. Could you perhaps give an example of where you think science and Catholic religion (but I do mean Catholic, not Protestant or Islam etc) contradict each other?

Well, the catholic creationists are contradicting science by saying evolution is not true. Other than that, the major things lie in the history. (many things were not straightaway accepted by the catholic church, as I am sure you know)

Side note; Aah! I wasn’t supposed to reply…I really need a brake…I’ll try to have it know…

 

[NotReligous]

Did you come to these forums to Seek or not?

For proof about the existence of god. Haven’t found any yet.

 

[rinnie]

I don’t understand why do you see science and Catholic religion as opposed to/incompatible with each other. I’m religious, Catholic, fully accept all that my Church teaches. I’m also a scientist, have been a professional for 20 years, masters degree in pharmaceutical sciences, Ph.D. in chemistry. I don’t have a problem being a scientist and a faithful Catholic, at the same time. Could you perhaps give an example of where you think science and Catholic religion (but I do mean Catholic, not Protestant or Islam etc) contradict each other?

My guess is his problem with God and Science is science explains everythng in a way a human can understand.

God works in mysterious ways. You can prove Science wrong, but you Can’t ’ prove God wrong.

With God sometimes you have to have just good ole plain Faith. Faith can move mountains.

We know from faith that there is a cure for everything. But we just have to find it. Science is what can show that cure to a non believer.

But when God overpowers Science and provides a cure then it creates a problem for the unbeliever. Say someone has a Cancer that cannot be cured. But it is through Faith and God.

We know as believers nothing is impossible for God and call it a miracle. But to an unbeliever they will even doubt the illness even if it is showed to them in black and white how it was there but then gone.

So to a non-believe the reason they see science and God incompatible is because God can prove science wrong if he wants to. God can do anything, anywhere, anytime. Science can’t!!

Bottom line you can explain science, but you can’t explain God. No one can. But you can have God and not need science. But because of God you have science. They just cannot understand why! They feel if all you need is God you don’t need science. But what they really are saying is they don’t understand God.

 

[Davidoa]

believe it or not buddy just as it took time for some scientific theories to enter the Church the same happened for some Saints and there writings ( for people spoke against them as heretical etc the same with scientific theories) and of course both have truth!
BTW example of saints being accused falsely are St. Faustina and Padre Pio.

 

[EddieMc]

I may be late to the game here but I wanted to ask you a question or two followed by a comment.

1. Please describe this God that you do not believe in?
2. If there is no God then why are you concerned with morality?
3. Please list a few examples of where you think the Church and Science collide?
4. So if I understand your story correctly it was about the age of 13 that you started to believe you were smarter than your parents? Even though it was your parents that gave you life and sustained your life for you? Would you say at the age of 13 your mind and life experience was fully developed to the point that you no longer needed your parents?
   (You can subsitute God for Parent if you like.)
5. How old are you now?

I was not raised Catholic. My mother was a non practicing protestant and my father a non practising Catholic. I have attended every variety of Church and even witnessed a ramadon cermony. I have studied various new age beliefs including astrology to a high degree. I always felt drawn to the Catholic church all of my life and finally converted 15 years ago. Since that time I have met many Catholics that have left the church usually referring to themselves as “Recovering Catholics” as if it took a 12 step program to get over the experience. However I never met one of those so called Recovering Catholics that understood their faith. They like you left the church for reasons that would not cause them to leave their jobs, their neighborhoods or denounce their citizenship but they will leave the church. Not much Logic or Reason in that.

I would suggest that rather then asking “Gotcha” questions such as the Railroad Track question, that you try to disprove the existance of God by studying the source material in the Catholic Church. Afterall is that not what a person of Reason and Logic would do?

Here a few points to remember:

1. The Catholic Church believes in the Contextual understanding of the Bible, not the Literal.
2. Search out those that have suffered great losses in their life and ask them about God.
3. Study how Top Athletes get into the Zone and then attend Mass with the same mindset. You may find it is not so dull or boring then…

Just my thoughts…

 

[NotReligous]

1. Why do you believe in god?
   **I am not really sure “why” I believe in God. I guess it’s just something I feel. I know that’s not scientific, but it’s my answer. **

Short reply; part one. Ok, that is not scientific, as you predicted.

1

.1 How is your religion different from any others?
**This really depends–I think everyone sees their religion different. Even two Catholics can be completely different in their views. But like I said, I am a bit of a simpleton… Jesus said that the most important commandment is to love others… so that’s my main focus with religion. **

Yes…I kind of meant why it would be more logical to be in your religon, that the others.

1.2 Do you actually have any logical reason to believe in god?
**I suppose you can look for evidence. Take for example love that I just mentioned–as far as I can see, there is no evolutionary reason for it, but yet we have it. And Christianity believes that God is Love Or humor? Why do we get humor?. Or take for example scientific law. Why does it exist? Did it spring out of nothing? Etc.

Science can define what makes up a human and categorize us… but it can’t explain what makes us human.
**

Well…first of all, we are homo sapiens, a species. One of many. This is how science defines humans. And that also explains how we are scientifically made humans. The other possible definition falls to philosophy … And there is an evolutionary reason for love. In very short; it helps us to survive better. (also dolphins have similar feelings)

**I know I am supposed to say that I am not God and don’t know. But the answer is no, not as I understand things. While I am not well read in the bible, Jesus died to save us from hell. I also think God gives us free will and people pretty much send themselves to hell. **

Ok…I have replied to the choosing to go to hell part…(I think somewhere on page 2) Otherwise; Ok.

**As an aside, I also think hell as most people envision it is based off a poem and on person interpretation of hell (Dante’s Inferno). I also believe that God is loving and forgiving and if anyone turns to him for mercy he will show mercy. **

Ok, again.

I think you were assuming if the answer was yes, so I’ll skip this one.

Indeed I was.

If by show mercy… then yes, of course.

I was still assuming the answer no.

B]I would never send anyone for any kind of torture and I have no way to sentence someone to eternal torture… but again, people do it to themselves all the time. People that abuse drugs (as an example) are subjecting themselves to torture in the here an now–they might blame a bunch of other people of influences, but they choose to do it. I think hell is the same way.

Page 2, my reply… (or at page one? )

Nope.

Ok.

Stopping here. (the rest would just be; “ok”)

 

[NotReligous]

Bottom line you can explain science, but you can’t explain God. No one can. But you can have God and not need science. But because of God you have science. They just cannot understand why! They feel if all you need is God you don’t need science. But what they really are saying is they don’t understand God.

Quickie reply; But is there any reason to assume there is a god?

 

[rinnie]

For proof about the existence of god. Haven’t found any yet.

THe reason you have not found God is because you have to want God to find God. Seek and you will find.

ITs like someone going to rehab for drugs but they do not want to quit the drugs. They are not going to quit them because they don’t want to.

You cannot take away ones free will.

If you want to truly find God and it is your free will to really want him, you will find him.

And we can tell you thousands of way to show proof of God.

I would say look into the eyes of a new born baby. What do you see when you look into those eyes. That feeling of Love, inocence, warmth, that feeling inside of you thats God.

But like going to rehab, we could go together. I could really want help and will find it. You could truly not want it and will not find it.

You want us to somehow find a way for you to find God. We can’t. You are on your own. You have to want it. IF you want it, and you are sincere all you have to do is get on your hands and knees and pray up to the sky and ask The Holy Spirit to come back into your life. If you want it God knows. You can’t fool him. And when you are ready to accept him again he will enter.

 

[rinnie]

Quickie reply; But is there any reason to assume there is a god?

Even quicker, You show me a reason to doubt he does not exist,

 

[Nechasin]

God doesn’t send anyone to Hell. He is always there ready to forgive and receive you into Heaven while you are making your choices in this life. If at the end of this life, you persist in turning your back on God, your choice is permanent and you will suffer the absence of God’s Love for eternity. You choose hell over God and it is only after you’ve made that choice that you realize the magnitude of the error you made and suffer for it. But rejoice, you have many chances in this life to turn toward God and God will accept you and forgive you. God made us with Free Will. We can choose Him or not. He is sadden when we don’t, but filled with Joy when we do.

Imagine this scenario, your Father asked you to come home to Thanksgiving dinner and you refused because you wanted to go partying with your friends. The next day, your Father dies in a car crash. How would you feel? Would you have regretted your decision not to see him? Can you change the fact that you didn’t see him? Is He responsible for your misery?

 

[rinnie]

Quickie reply; But is there any reason to assume there is a god?

How about a hard question for you. Do you want God?

 

[NotReligous]

1. Please describe this God that you do not believe in?

I do not believe in any gods of any religions. No, I don't even know them all.

And how could I describe something that I don’t believe exist? Meaning, that I can only use the definitions that religions have made for god.

1. If there is no God then why are you concerned with morality?

Oh, that was just for people who think morality comes only from god. And if you meant, that why do I have moral, etc., the short answer is, every one has it! Long answer would be the evolutionary way…too long.

1. Please list a few examples of where you think the Church and Science collide?

Currently (for catholics); Evolution. (for some) And that was for all religions.

1. So if I understand your story correctly it was about the age of 13 that you started to believe you were smarter than your parents? Even though it was your parents that gave you life and sustained your life for you? Would you say at the age of 13 your mind and life experience was fully developed to the point that you no longer needed your parents?
   (You can subsitute God for Parent if you like.)

Well, in the god issue, I’d have to say yes. In other things of course not. And naturally I still needed them. I don’t think I ever claimed not to need them when I became an atheist?

1. How old are you now?

Irrelevant. Really, it is.

I was not raised Catholic. My mother was a non practicing protestant and my father a non practising Catholic. I have attended every variety of Church and even witnessed a ramadon cermony. I have studied various new age beliefs including astrology to a high degree. I always felt drawn to the Catholic church all of my life and finally converted 15 years ago. Since that time I have met many Catholics that have left the church usually referring to themselves as “Recovering Catholics” as if it took a 12 step program to get over the experience. However I never met one of those so called Recovering Catholics that understood their faith. They like you left the church for reasons that would not cause them to leave their jobs, their neighborhoods or denounce their citizenship but they will leave the church. Not much Logic or Reason in that.

Ok…(?)

I would suggest that rather then asking “Gotcha” questions such as the Railroad Track question, that you try to disprove the existance of God by studying the source material in the Catholic Church. Afterall is that not what a person of Reason and Logic would do?

Hah, I knew that would come up. I’ll do that, if you disprove the existence of fairies. Some things just can not be disproved.

Here a few points to remember:

1. The Catholic Church believes in the Contextual understanding of the Bible, not the Literal.
2. Search out those that have suffered great losses in their life and ask them about God.
3. Study how Top Athletes get into the Zone and then attend Mass with the same mindset. You may find it is not so dull or boring then…

2 first; ok… 3rd; I did that. Many, many times. (not only before 13) It just simply is boring to me. And I see no point of brainwashing myself to think it as fun.

Just my thoughts…

yup…

 

[NotReligous]

Even quicker, You show me a reason to doubt he does not exist,

You can not doubt that something doesn’t exist if you don’t even have a clear reason of believing the existence in the first place. Just compare that with fairies… (and your question too)

 

[NotReligous]

How about a hard question for you. Do you want God?

Yes.

Also;“Would I like fairies to exits?” -Yes.

 

[rinnie]

You can not doubt that something doesn’t exist if you don’t even have a clear reason of believing the existence in the first place. Just compare that with fairies… (and your question too)

Exactly!! And until you have a clear reason of believing its not going to happen. And in order to have a clear reason to believe you have to want to clearly believe.

So again do you want to clearly believe?

 

[rinnie]

Yes.

Also;“Would I like fairies to exits?” -Yes.

Ah, now we are getting somewhere. Now what is your definition of fairies?

 

[Kathy_W_Frye]

If you really, really want answers to the questions you posted, you will need to research deeply asking the Holy Spirit for guidance. I know, you do not believe in Him but He created you and certainly believes in you so cut him some slack. “Fake it till you make it” and ask.

I will try to answer best I can but I am not a Theologan. These are my answers based on me personally and how I came to finally believe in Him.

1. Why do you believe in god? He has revealed Himself to me because I asked, and now, I believe because He is really there.
   1.1 How is your religion different from any others? I believe Jesus when He said “I am the way, the truth and the life” Jn 14:6. Catholicism is the original Christian religion started by Jesus (we named it “Catholic” later which simply means universal). Catholicism has the most benefits of all Christian religions out there. Religion is my vehicle to God. It gives structure to my faith in Jesus Christ and the trinity.
   1.2 Do you actually have any logical reason to believe in god?
   Like I said, thru my faith, He has somehow revealed Himself to me.
2. Do you believe that god will send me to hell, even if I live my life really well, but I just don’t believe in him?
   God made us a promise. He promised that He would reveal Himself to every man at one time or another. When that happens for everyone, I do not know. When He reveals Himself to you, what you decide to do is your choice and your choice alone. No one can determine your fate but you and God.
   2.1 Do you think this is just?
   No, but I am only human. God is just, totally, he is merciful, LOVING, forgiving and did I say, God is just.
   2.2 Would you do the same? not sure what you are asking

1. For what would you send a person for eternal torture?
   You don’t want to ask any human being that question! I work hard daily on forgiveness, a human trait that reeks havoc in my spiritual life. Only God can help me through that flaw! Thank God for God!!
   3.1 Would you send your child, who you love, also there?
   See ans. to 3.

1. Why do you think religion tends to contradict science?
   Religion does not contradict Science. Since I am not a scientist, I cannot explain. If you are truly serious about all this questions/answers stuff (and I pray you are), you will need to view some videos. “The Priveleged Planet” , “Unlocking the Mystery of Life” and “Icons of Evolution”. These videos are for scientific minds like yours. They may be available on youtube to view free and they are available for sale. Amazon has new and previously viewed ones for good prices.
   4.1 Do you think science tends to be correct, in fact a lot more than religion? (if no, why not?)
   See answer above. Science and Religion complement and complete each other.
   -
2. Do you think bible is the source of all moral? Yes. Remember, the Bible is the “Word” of God, not the “words”. For those that read the Bible, with guidance from the Holy Spirit, God reveals Himself in many ways.
   5.1 If so, how do you explain my moral? Not sure what your moral is, your religion is “Atheist”, mine is “Christian”-
3. Do you think the ten commandments are perfect, and more than enough to guide your life? *Yes along with the Sacraments and the church guidance. My ignorance gets in the way of my understanding many times. Read Proverbs 3:5-6 “Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Do not depend on your own understanding. In all ways, acknowledge Him and He will direct your path” *6.1 If so, what would you do in the following situation? "You are at a railroad track. The train is coming, and far ahead, you can see five persons in it’s way. The persons can not hear you nor the train. (they are wearing headphones, they can’t hear, I don’t know) The persons are not moving, and will soon be hit by the train. You have only one chance saving them. Next to you there is a switch. By pulling the switch, the train will change track. But on this other track is also one other person, who will be hit by the train. Will you save the five persons, but kill the other one?
   The word “kill” used in the 10 commandments, translated from Hebrew means Murder. Very different definition, some words change in translation. The word “saved” in Hebrew means “made Whole” etc.
   You see, the bible states, ‘thou shalt not kill’, yet on this and similar situations, you must use your own judgment.

6.2 And what if the other person on the second track is your mother/father/child?

B]I am praying for you, that the Holy Spirit will give you the desire to seek the truth. Just remember, the answers are there, you only need faith to find them. Faith you say. You right now have faith in Atheism. God bless you

 

[NotReligous]

THe reason you have not found God is because you have to want God to find God. Seek and you will find.

If you hadn’t noticed, I did seek. Nothing at all came to me.

ITs like someone going to rehab for drugs but they do not want to quit the drugs. They are not going to quit them because they don’t want to.

You cannot take away ones free will.

If you want to truly find God and it is your free will to really want him, you will find him.

Yes, if i truly put my mind on the set; “There is a god, no questions asked.” I might. (but I cant even do that )

I would say look into the eyes of a new born baby. What do you see when you look into those eyes. That feeling of Love, inocence, warmth, that feeling inside of you thats God.

Sorry…that didn’t convince me. That is simply love and innocence. (yes, I have looked into the eyes of a new born baby [1 day old])

But like going to rehab, we could go together. I could really want help and will find it. You could truly not want it and will not find it.

Yes, I want to. But so far, once again, I have no reason to believe. My mind simply can. not. accept. things. I. don’t. have. any. proof. of. Got it?

You want us to somehow find a way for you to find God. We can’t. You are on your own. You have to want it. IF you want it, and you are sincere all you have to do is get on your hands and knees and pray up to the sky and ask The Holy Spirit to come back into your life. If you want it God knows. You can’t fool him. And when you are ready to accept him again he will enter.

Sigh…done that. didn’t work. now what?