I am an atheist.

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Yeah, when a person (Angela Boudreaux, New Orleans, 1966) is in terminal-stage of liver cancer, and suddenly heals and lives another 35 years after praying for a holy priest’s (Blessed Francis Xavier Seelos’s) intercession, that presents a serious problem to atheists. 🤷 😛
Usually people pray, when sick, and cancer healing is rare, but it does occur. Meaning, that when you do heal, you usually have prayed. Also these kinds of ‘miracles’ happen at every major religion… (because there are a lot of people, the likelihood of these ‘miracles’ increases)
 
T

It was to reply the “free choice of hell”

Here, let me quote; "This is basically saying; “You have millions of options (religions) here, one might be correct, if not you have wasted (depending on religion) your only bet you had, pick one! "
Seems pretty cruel to me…if you disagree tell me any proofs for god or any religion.”

Meaning, that if I have no way of knowing which religion is correct, not going to hell is pretty hard, and definitely not a free choice.
Ah, okay, I understand now. Years ago we has a priest give a homily on this very subject. It boiled down to it doesn’t really matter about following a religion to the letter of the law–it was what was in your heart that counted (in that most religions are similar in their ideals).God, and the Church, do not condemn good people based on religion and culture.

I am going to borrow from the Vatican archives now to show you what I mean:
From ancient times down to the present, there is found among various peoples a certain perception of that hidden power which hovers over the course of things and over the events of human history; at times some indeed have come to the recognition of a Supreme Being, or even of a Father. This perception and recognition penetrates their lives with a profound religious sense.
Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language…
…religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing “ways,” comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)
The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men…
…We cannot truly call on God, the Father of all, if we refuse to treat in a brotherly way any man, created as he is in the image of God. Man’s relation to God the Father and his relation to men his brothers are so linked together that Scripture says: “He who does not love does not know God” (1 John 4:8).
No foundation therefore remains for any theory or practice that leads to discrimination between man and man or people and people, so far as their human dignity and the rights flowing from it are concerned.
The Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against men or harassment of them because of their race, color, condition of life, or religion. On the contrary, following in the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, this sacred synod ardently implores the Christian faithful to “maintain good fellowship among the nations” (1 Peter 2:12), and, if possible, to live for their part in peace with all men,(14) so that they may truly be sons of the Father who is in heaven.(15)
 
What a wall of text…my eyes hurt. :compcoff: (just try to divide your text next time)

And I actually knew this. That is why I said Catholic creationists. And it is science vs religion, for the creationists naturally put religion over science.
But I think you are not talking about Catholics, here! You are talking about Protestants who believe that the Bible talks about creation in 6 days, incompatible with evolution theory.

With a Catholic creationist, the Catholic Church doesn’t tell this person to reject the theory of evolution. The person may reject it based on other reasons, but not because the Catholic Church expects him to reject it.
 
This guy is very angry and frustrated. He believes that he is the smartest person in the room and has a deep seated need to prove it. He does not want to understand he wants to argue. He is angry at God and really angry at himself. God will reveal himself to this fellow in his greatest hour of need which has not arrived yet. He is young and has not experienced enough of life. He will find God one day when he is alone and on his knees and his heart hurts so much that no logic or reason can cure it. Then he will know God and knowone will be able to tell him God does not exist.
 
I replied to you first, for your post caught my eye. (I will reply to the earlier posts soon enough)
You honestly and sincerely believe you know it all and I wouldn’t consider trying to convince you otherwise, because I suspect that at this stage you can only recognize one kind of knowledge and one kind of truth, but there may come a time in your life when you may find there is more to reality than your incisive logic tells you.
I don’t know it all, I have not finished my studies, and so on…but I suppose you meant my knowing of this god of yours? I presume you think I am arrogant (or something) for I actually reply to these messages… You see, I don’t know it all, no, but I think I am asking for fairly simple questions. …I just can not accept the answers so far as proof of god. You can change that of course, by replying to me, but so far…nope. I don’t think it is arrogance or anything to not accept something that does not convince you?
Or not…but I will remember you in prayer sometimes… certainly as I drift off to sleep, it being after 1 pm on my continent. Regards, Trishie
Thank you, I guess…
 
I actually feel sorry for u 😦
u can probably say the same for me but its no way the same.

peace be with u, keep seeking 😃

I think I’m going to go to bed now
 
Another reply, before the old ones…
This guy is very angry and frustrated. He believes that he is the smartest person in the room and has a deep seated need to prove it.
Umm…no. In the first post I also wrote, that don’t get angry or frustrated, etc. if you can’t reply, just I can’t reply (or nothing) I know you are not replying to anything, but I don’t think you are trying to do anything too constructive with your post.
He does not want to understand he wants to argue. He is angry at God and really angry at himself.
Oh no, I always want to understand…I need basically proof of god, otherwise I can’t believe in him. I am not angry at god or with myself. (how could I even be angry with something that I don’t think exists)
God will reveal himself to this fellow in his greatest hour of need which has not arrived yet. He is young and has not experienced enough of life. He will find God one day when he is alone and on his knees and his heart hurts so much that no logic or reason can cure it. Then he will know God and knowone will be able to tell him God does not exist.
I truly doubt that. Maybe when I am 40-60 (if I am still alive 🤷) I will post here about that. 😉

Side note; So many posts…I wish I would get paid for writing this much text…man…
 
Ok then. Scientifically proving a religion correct should be easy then.

And to the rest of your post; Can you quote me saying that scientists can not be religious? But Science and religion still differ greatly. Just think about it. Does religon require proof? No. Does religion always agree with the real world (science) NO. Note that I am not only talking about Catholics here. Is religion always logical? No. Can you disproof religion? No
Where is Religion not Logical. Throughout this whole thread, people have been asking you where Science Defies Religion. What “Fact” defies Religion. You have not given one good answer. You have just been sarcastically answering them. So once again I ask you. How does religion not always agree with the real world (science). 🙂

oh and it is disprove religion not disproof:shrug:
God was used to explain things, that they did not know. Very often these things were the sun, stars etc. Now religion is losing it’s meaning.
Why is there that search though? Why does it matter to them? Why do they try to explain things that they did not know? Why is it part of the Human soul to explain these things? WHY?
You are just saying, “That is just the way it is,” yet are not answering the why of it.
Not true at all. In Greece (and Rome, if I am not mistaking) homosexuality was allowed, and just look at the cruel rituals of the Mayas.
I was not talking about Homosexuality I was talking about Rape. The mayas were sacrificing to their “gods.” They chose to sacrifice humans, yes I do not agree with the sacrificing of humans, but throughout the whole world and in different civilizations, Sacrificing to the gods was important. Why did they believe they had to sacrifice for the gods? Oh and normally it wasn’t okay to kill people in the mayan world, (Except if they were warriors), they would only kill through the sacrifice.😉
That does that post.
Nope, until you answer my questions for real, you will not get rid of me.:rotfl:
Oh and did you read my dear friend St. Thomas Aquinas?
God Bless
 
Usually people pray, when sick, and cancer healing is rare, but it does occur. Meaning, that when you do heal, you usually have prayed. Also these kinds of ‘miracles’ happen at every major religion… (because there are a lot of people, the likelihood of these ‘miracles’ increases)
Since the likelihood of recovery from her cancer was zero, even with six billion people, the likelihood of recovery would be six billion times zero… 😃 What’s the likelihood of someone floating up into the air, against the law of gravity? Zero. And with six billion people? Still zero… 😃
 
Ok, last post, before replying old ones…man so many posts… :eek:
Since the likelihood of recovery from her cancer was zero, even with six billion people, the likelihood of recovery would be six billion times zero… 😃 What’s the likelihood of someone floating up into the air, against the law of gravity? Zero. And with six billion people? Still zero… 😃
It ain’t zero. The fact that people (no matter what religion, or how religious) survive cancer proofs it. It is small, yes, not zero.
 
You remind me of a professor in a 30 minute drama called “The Stranger - Salt” Go to Youtube and view it in 3 10 minute segments and let me know what you think
 

A few questions; (please do answer) Note; Don’t get nervous, or start sending insults, if you can’t answer, then simply admit it. (I have always tried to do so)

. 🙂
First two questions for you:

How did something spring from nothing?

How did life spring from non-life?
 
Ok, last post, before replying old ones…man so many posts… :eek:

It ain’t zero. The fact that people (no matter what religion, or how religious) survive cancer proofs it. It is small, yes, not zero.
No, you can’t lump it all together like that. We are not talking about “cancer” in general. That would include lung cancer, prostatic, breast. colorectal, gastric, pancreatic, renal cell carcinomas, glioblastomas, sarcomas and so on; localized, locally advanced, metastatic forms; low-grade and high-grade cancers, … That sort of generalization leads nowhere.

We are talking about this particular person’s particular type and grade of cancer, and what the doctors thought was the chance of recovery - it was zero.
 
Where is Religion not Logical. Throughout this whole thread, people have been asking you where Science Defies Religion. What “Fact” defies Religion. You have not given one good answer. You have just been sarcastically answering them. So once again I ask you. How does religion not always agree with the real world (science). 🙂
Uhh…ok. I’ll give some current ones… (once again this is from SOME religions, not catholics) Creationists, some christians believe that prayer works better than medicine. Some people thinks gays can help being gays. All kinds of useless rituals to help sick people. (that replace modern medicine) For example.

But I am referring much more to history, when science wasn’t so important.
Why is there that search though? Why does it matter to them? Why do they try to explain things that they did not know? Why is it part of the Human soul to explain these things? WHY?
You are just saying, “That is just the way it is,” yet are not answering the why of it.
Human curiosity. We always want to explain things. First it was by religion, now it is more and more with science.
I was not talking about Homosexuality I was talking about Rape.
Rape was also very common…have you read history books at all? Part of the reason some men used to war, was so they could rape the women!
The mayas were sacrificing to their “gods.” They chose to sacrifice humans, yes I do not agree with the sacrificing of humans, but throughout the whole world and in different civilizations, Sacrificing to the gods was important. Why did they believe they had to sacrifice for the gods? Oh and normally it wasn’t okay to kill people in the mayan world, (Except if they were warriors), they would only kill through the sacrifice.😉
Because people have always thought that gods needed sacrifice. It was very simple, they wanted something, lets say food, they look at stars, of so mighty, must be made by very powerful gods, so they thought gods could help them with their power, but gods must want something in return too.
(basic example)
Nope, until you answer my questions for real, you will not get rid of me.:rotfl:
Oh and did you read my dear friend St. Thomas Aquinas?
God Bless
Well, I did that. (reply) No, I didn’t read it, I have hardly time to reply everyone! (I will read it, when I have time)
 
We are talking about this particular person’s particular type and grade of cancer, and what the doctors thought was the chance of recovery - it was zero.
There are so many cases, where doctors say chances are zero…(what it actually means is, it is extremely likely that we can’t heal you, so we wont even bother)

And as I said, miraculous healing-type of things happen with every religion, care to explain?
 
First two questions for you:

How did something spring from nothing?

How did life spring from non-life?
1st page, 4th post.

EDIT; It has been over one minute with out a post for me to reply!! YESSS… (I am tired)

(probably next post will arrive in a few minutes max. :mad:)
 
You remind me of a professor in a 30 minute drama called “The Stranger - Salt” Go to Youtube and view it in 3 10 minute segments and let me know what you think
I hope you were talking to me. 🤷

I might…when I have time…
 
A little background about me. My faith took a trip just like yours. I asked myself all these questions and I worried I only believed what my parents taught because I wanted them to be right. It took many years and a lot of strained relationships on both sides (my catholic family and my atheist friends) before I found myself regularly returning to Church. So I will try to answer your questions but at the end of the day no one but you can decide what you should believe and how you should live.
  1. Why do you believe in god?
You are searching for proof so I’ll send this question your way. If you can prove god exists won’t you negate our free will? How can we prove an all powerful God exists and then not feel compelled to worship him? You will never find indisputable proof that God exists.

I believe God exists because there are enough things that have happened in my life that it seems like mere chance cannot work like that. I can’t tell you how many times I have had a close call or witness one for a family member and yet we came out alright. I can’t tell you how many times I got myself into a real mess and ask for help from God or Mary and received the help. I’m not just talking about I suddenly figured out a way to solve the problem. More like something out of the blue happened that helped me out. Maybe it was luck or pure chance but that answer doesn’t satisfy me— I don’t think the law of probability works that way. It seems to happen too often and too well.

I can also say I see a huge difference in my happiness and quality of life when I accept God and when I didn’t. Maybe that is psychological only…maybe it isn’t. My point is you can’t tell me anymore than I can tell you. I have faith in God, you have faith that my brain is designed to survive.
  1. Do you believe that god will send me to hell, even if I live my life really well, but I just don’t believe in him?
    2.1 Do you think this is just?
    2.2 Would you do the same?
Think of it this way. You have a parent that gives you everything you need, helps you out whenever you ask, sometimes sends you help and aid even when you don’t ask, is always willing to forgive you. But you never call this parent, you never thank them, you take all their gifts for granted or you outright mock/insult/waste their gifts.

If we were to describe to friends, family, Dear Abby, psychologists a human relationship like this, almost everyone would tell the parent this relationship is “toxic.” Someone said earlier that God does not send us to Hell we send ourselves. This is very true, we choose not to accept God…so we have no protection from Satan and thus we are in hell.

It isn’t just about living your life really well. It is about accepting there is more to life than just you. It is about thanking and serving the Lord who has given you a great gift of life.

I do think it is just. If you are going to scorn the gift given to you, why should you continue to get gifts?

Would I do the same? I’d probably do worse…I’m human and don’t have God’s capacity of forgiveness.
  1. For what would you send a person for **eternal ** torture?
I can’t send anyone to hell. I am not God. I do not have his knowledge, power or understanding. Frankly, it is a job I am not qualified for and would never ever want. No one can tell you who will be saved and who will be damned- we just don’t know.
  1. Why do you think religion tends to contradict science?
I’m probably going to get slammed for this. The Church run by humans, at times it ventures out of the religious and into the social, economic and political. Sometimes it makes mistakes.

But I have studied math and science the higher up you go the more you realize it doesn’t have all the answers either. A lot of science is our best guesses and theories and there have been times it has been wrong. It wasn’t just the religious that thought the world was flat or that the earth was the center of the universe and it wasn’t only the religious that criticized new ideas.
  1. Do you think bible is the source of all moral?
I think God is the source of all moral. The Bible isn’t God it is the Word of God. You came from God so your moral starts with God but you can corrupt it. Read up on Catholic literature on the importance of developing a good conscience- it is really interesting (and it is good psychology too).

6.1 If so, what would you do in the following situation? "You are at a railroad track. The train is coming, and far ahead, you can see five persons in it’s way. The persons can not hear you nor the train. (they are wearing headphones, they can’t hear, I don’t know) The persons are not moving, and will soon be hit by the train. You have only one chance saving them. Next to you there is a switch. By pulling the switch, the train will change track. But on this other track is also one other person, who will be hit by the train. Will you save the five persons, but kill the other one?

Can the person on the other track hear me? If so I’ll shout out to him.

The problem with your word problem is that it assumes wayyyy too much. First of all, how do I know the five people can’t hear me? How do I know all I have to do is hit the switch? How can you be sure my brain is going to process everything that fast? Most people in this situation merely react they don’t have time to think things through. Most Catholics will probably be saying a lot of "Hail Mary"s very fast as they move to do something. Some people will just freeze in the horror of it.

I cannot answer this because I don’t know what I would do (even if the person on the other track was a family member). But can science tell me what to do either?

Well I hope that helps. I’ll try to answer any other questions you have but it really is a matter of faith.

Kat
 
1st page, 4th post.

EDIT; It has been over one minute with out a post for me to reply!! YESSS… (I am tired)

(probably next post will arrive in a few minutes max. :mad:)
I always find it ironic that those who embrace science the most cant answer questions the uneducated sheep herder of 2,000 years ago could answer with ease.
 
First two questions for you:

How did something spring from nothing?

How did life spring from non-life?
What makes you so sure that the beginning if there was such a thing to “existence” was initially nothing? why is nothing existing more likely than something existing? you assume a creation to require a creator

before we can discuss how life comes from non-life we must first define what life is…there is no clear delineation in any school of thought what even constitutes life…sure people know life when they see it…but do they see non-life when they see it? do we ALWAYS recognize life as life?

http://www.westaust.net/marinelife/stromatolites_hamelin_pool.jpg
to most people these are nothing but oddly shaped rocks…they are actually some fairly complex organisms that make rock as a by product of their food production…would you recognize this as a life form if you saw it along a beach?
 
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