I am an atheist.

[Contarini]

And I actually knew this. That is why I said Catholic creationists. And it is science vs religion, for the creationists naturally put religion over science.

But if you want to make sweeping claims about “religion and science,” and make them on a Catholic board, isn’t it silly to pick an example that doesn’t apply to Catholicism as a whole?

If you want to say that fundamentalism contradicts science, most of us will cheer you on

Edwin

 

[rinnie]

Uhh…what I mean is that, I find god as likely to exist as fairies. It is as easy to believe in fairies for me as in god. You try to believe in Santa Claus! I am sure you would want to? You just can’t…the same way I feel…

Oh so now you deny ST Nicholas. Sorry but he did exist. That is how it came about. It was about a Man who gave presents to Children around Christmas.

So does Santa exist? Then I guess if he does not exist then I am mentally unstable because when I was a child I either got a ton of gifts or I THOUGHT I got a ton of gifts and did not.

So what is it? Did Santa exist or Did I not understand who Santa truly was?

Now what is you idea of what faries are? My idea is that they are what we can compare to Angels as we get older.

I believe in Angels. I believe there are human and divine. I believe that if we want we can become a Angel of CHrist by helping people. I have actually been called an angel at times in my life.

People would say what would I have done if you were not here? And at times I know that they are right, and why was I there, and why did I help? Because simply my faith and love for God let me become an angel in this world. But Of course you will try to find a way to deny that also but you Can’t of course.

So I am sure you deny angels just like you deny God. But you can’t deny the people on earth who are human angels sent from God because you can’t because you know you have seen them.

Or you will have to say that there was never a time in your life when a stranger helped you or someone you knew for no reason. And you know you cannot say that.

Again like I said if you want God he knows it and he will find you, you will not have to find him. But you have to want him, and then ask. And then you will find that he is alive and well in the Church. His Church is visible here on earth. He isn’t hiding.

 

[NotReligous]

from my personal virtual library :

Gödel’s Incompleteness theorem

elshamah.heavenforum.com/philosophy-and-god-f14/godels-incompleteness-theorem-t274.htm

**We have plenty of evidence of Gods existence. **

elshamah.heavenforum.com/does-god-exist-origin-of-god-metaphysical-reality-f10/arguments-for-the-existence-of-god-t5.htm

Way too long, mind quoting the basic points…(I really don’t have time to read it)

one, no atheist has topped , is this one :

cosmicfingerprints.com/iidb.htm

1. DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism.
2. All codes are created by a conscious mind; there is no natural process known to science that creates coded information.
3. Therefore DNA was designed by a mind.

If you can provide an empirical example of a code or language that occurs naturally, you’ve toppled my proof. All you need is one.

Well, I am “no atheist” then. (a horrible joke ) Here, this is the best way to explain it;

The formation of DNA, link (I didn’t even get the 3 turn argument…)

youtube.com/watch?v=v8nYTJf62sE&videos=_0qwuTi_Zrc

 

[Shiranui117]

1. Why do you believe in god?
   1.1 How is your religion different from any others?
   1.2 Do you actually have any logical reason to believe in god?

1.1: I believe because I can feel Him answering when I pray, and He has even given me a sign telling me what was to come when I asked Him whether or not to convert to the Catholic faith. (this sign was two emotions, sorrow to the point of tears, then joy and rejoicing and praising God. They washed over me like a wave, and I can’t believe that was me just my own psychosomatic impulses; one emotion came overwhelmingly, then the next came 30 seconds later, and the day was still young, and I wasn’t under any pressure and nothing extremely good had happened lately.

1.2: It’s just… Apparent to me. Logical reasons aren’t quite why one converts; Christianity is a faith, after all. My mother thinks I take after her grandfather, who was a very devout man. I couldn’t tell you what makes me, personally, believe, other than I have faith. Do I doubt my faith? Of course! But, a logical argument that definitely doesn’t work on everyone, is that something had to create the little blip of matter that existed and then resulted in the Big Bang. Something that isn’t bound by space or time, or, in other words, the universe. Anything that can create physical things while remaining Himself outside of space or time must be an omnipotent God. To create, He must want something to love, and I’m sure He would want His creation to love Him back. Since He created everything, He must know everything about what He created, like how a sculptor can tell you everything about his sculpture. That’s just a starter, and I’m sure someone else has brought it up, however, I will say that you don’t normally bring someone to Christ through a logical argument.

1. Do you believe that god will send me to hell, even if I live my life really well, but I just don’t believe in him?
   2.1 Do you think this is just?
   2.2 Would you do the same?

2: No. If you live your life as a great person, I don’t believe God will judge you very harshly. But, it’s the call of the Big Man Upstairs, not me.
2.1: IDK, I don’t even know what God’s call is gonna be!
2.2: IDK what “the same” would be, but I figure if I was God, if you live your life well, you’re kind to everyone, you give hope to people and cheer people up and you’re really honest, whether or not you believe in me would be overlooked; you clearly love the world and want to make it better, like me. Why wouldn’t I like you?

1. For what would you send a person for eternal torture?
   3.1 Would you send your child, who you love, also there?

3: They would have to be a complete and total shell, housing a pure-black heart. Put in a bit of Hitler’s Holocaust and Stalin’s genocides, as well as the blind hatred of the likes of Osama bin Laden and al-Quaeda and the rigidity of the Taliban’s punishments, and that would constitute a person on the highway to Hell, so to speak.
3.1: If he lives SO UTTERLY EVILLY, and he can’t be persuaded to straighten out and make whatever amends he can before he dies, I would send my child there; he made his mind up to make the world hell for those who live in it. He tried to ruin the lives of others instead of making his own useful and beneficial to the world; I could not allow a specter and harbinger of malice, hatred, bigotry and no feeling to get a “get out of jail free” card.

(cont)

 

[Shiranui117]

(cont)

1. Why do you think religion tends to contradict science?
   4.1 Do you think science tends to be correct, in fact a lot more than religion? (if no, why not?)

Because they deal with two completely different realities: Religion deals with faith, which science says is unnecessary, and science deals with reason, which religion wants to put as something of an accent to faith. This balance of faith and reason will invariably lead to how high reason should be placed, and, ultimately, what place faith has at all. Aside from that, things like the Book of Genesis and miracles are battlegrounds that arose in the physical world.
4.1: In terms of the physical world? Sure! I buy evolution completely (just, with God nudging it along occasionally. ) and I also know a good deal about various fields of science. (biology, chemistry, genetics, meteorology, astronomy, zoology, paleontology, the big ones)

1. Do you think bible is the source of all moral?
   5.1 If so, how do you explain my moral?

5: No, God is the source of all morals. The Bible is simply a recording of the morals God has set down.
5.1: Your morals are instilled in your heart by God from the moment you’re born, perhaps from the moment of conception. I don’t believe that non-Christians are without morals; certain non-Christians are better people than certain Christians, and vice-versa.

1. Do you think the ten commandments are perfect, and more than enough to guide your life?
   6.1 If so, what would you do in the following situation? "You are at a railroad track. The train is coming, and far ahead, you can see five persons in it’s way. The persons can not hear you nor the train. (they are wearing headphones, they can’t hear, I don’t know) The persons are not moving, and will soon be hit by the train. You have only one chance saving them. Next to you there is a switch. By pulling the switch, the train will change track. But on this other track is also one other person, who will be hit by the train. Will you save the five persons, but kill the other one?

You see, the bible states, ‘thou shalt not kill’, yet on this and similar situations, you must use your own judgment.

6.2 And what if the other person on the second track is your mother/father/child?

6: Not quite enough; neither a Jew nor a Christian would say that. The Jew would point to all the other laws he is bound to follow, and a Christian would point to Jesus’ teachings, and say that those things expound upon the 10 Commandments into the set of morals that we are to follow.
6.1: Ahh, this. I developed an answer for this long ago. I would throw the switch, then run like freaking Usain Bolt to get the one person out of the way. If I get myself killed, so what? The other 6 are safe, and I died in the best way possible: Laying down my life for a friend. (I know you’re probably gonna tell me that this won’t work, but it’s what I’d do )
6.2: I’d do the same thing.

 

[NotReligous]

Oh so now you deny ST Nicholas. Sorry but he did exist. That is how it came about. It was about a Man who gave presents to Children around Christmas.

I know that, I think you know what I mean by Santa Claus though…

So does Santa exist? Then I guess if he does not exist then I am mentally unstable because when I was a child I either got a ton of gifts or I THOUGHT I got a ton of gifts and did not.

Oh my god you are missing the point…I am talking about the magical Santa, who brings presents to every kid in the world at christmas eave.

So what is it? Did Santa exist or Did I not understand who Santa truly was?

…?

Now what is you idea of what faries are? My idea is that they are what we can compare to Angels as we get older.

The idea is that they are as likely as god, angels etc., if you have no proof backing god, angels up!

I believe in Angels. I believe there are human and divine. I believe that if we want we can become a Angel of CHrist by helping people. I have actually been called an angel at times in my life.

…so…? You are missing the point.

(everything else on your post missed the point too, so I didn’t bother to reply)

His Church is visible here on earth. He isn’t hiding.

Aha…? There are every kind of religion buildings/organizations here on earth. Does that make every religion correct?

 

[Contarini]

The only difference is, that I don’t define god as the beginning, but many of you tend to. I define god as the god of any religion.

But that’s a useless definition, because the word “god” means different things in different contexts.

For instance, in Buddhism a “god” is a very powerful being who lives for a long time and has a generally blissful life, but will eventually die and be reborn. A god can’t save you and no god created the world.

That’s not remotely the same thing that Christians mean when we talk about God. A much closer Buddhist analogy to our God would be Nirvana, or in Mahayana Buddhism “Buddha nature.”

How about we forget about the word “god” altogether? It’s just confusing.

Instead, ask: what is the source of everything? Is there such a source? If there is, what characteristics might it have?

Then look at the relatively few serious, worldwide religions out there. The three monotheistic Western religions–which roughly agree on the nature of God, except that we Christians throw in that weird Trinity thing; Hinduism (which has a lot of affinities with various other traditions, and can be seen as the most sophisticated version of a fairly broad set of religious patterns); and Buddhism. Buddhism is the closest to atheism–but it’s tricky, because there are different forms of Buddhism.

Edwin

 

[rinnie]

Way too long, mind quoting the basic points…(I really don’t have time to read it)

Well, I am “no atheist” then. (a horrible joke ) Here, this is the best way to explain it;

The formation of DNA, link (I didn’t even get the 3 turn argument…)

youtube.com/watch?v=v8nYTJf62sE&videos=_0qwuTi_Zrc

You are whom you choose to be. If you want to follow Christ you are a Christian. IF not then you are not a Christian. No one can choose for you, and no one can take away your choice.

You are an atheist if you choose to be one. You have free will!

 

[NotReligous]

But if you want to make sweeping claims about “religion and science,” and make them on a Catholic board, isn’t it silly to pick an example that doesn’t apply to Catholicism as a whole?

Ok, perhaps it was a bit confusing, but that was the only question on a larger scale, berhaps I should have left that one out?

If you want to say that fundamentalism contradicts science, most of us will cheer you on

Edwin

Well, cheer me on, then. That was what I meant…

 

[legendashmore]

Once again, the only thing I was saying, that some religions go against science. That is it. I never said that science and religion are always in conflict.

The best way for me to reply you, is by this video. Watch it all. It is called; “Why don’t scientists fear hell?”

[youtube.com/watch?v=wbrQI0r1B7w&videos=SLaUzShZnoo[

Evolution, helps to find new things —> Better survival.

It was considered ok by those who did it and lead the army. It is not considered ok to those, who are victims, or who have done nothing involving the rape. Why? It is harming another human being. Against our basic morality, from evolution.

Indeed, and I can see where this is going.

1st page, 4th post.]()](

)

1.BUT I AM TALKING ABOUT CATHOLICISM You are lumping all religions into the category of they defy reason. I am saying that Catholicism is the only religion that does not defy reason. Catholicism is the only compliment to reason and science.

How about this?

How can you explain the constants in the universe anthropic values - values which will give rise to a life form. These constants have the precise number that makes the universe able to sustain life. For instance:
If the weak force coupling constant were off by 1 part in 10 to the 50th power in either one direction or the other life could not exist. If it goes in one direction the universe has a catastrophic collapse. If it goes in the other direction, the universe is so explosive that those explosions disrupt the formation of life. How in the world did the Weak Force Coupling Constant have the precise value that it had so that we could avoid catastrophe?

How about the Strong Nuclear Force Constant. If it is increased by 2% then Hydrogen could not exist. Thus Life could not exist. If it is decreased by 2 % then we could have no element heavier than Hydrogen and again no life could exist.

How can you explain these two constants being exactly right, if there is No God in charge of them. If it were left up to chance, life could not exist. The only way these constants exist the way they do so that life can exist is if they have an intelligent designer.:dancing:

:hug1: - So Many people are getting frustrated with you right now. You probably need a hug here it is.

God Bless You!

 

[NotReligous]

But that’s a useless definition, because the word “god” means different things in different contexts.

For instance, in Buddhism a “god” is a very powerful being who lives for a long time and has a generally blissful life, but will eventually die and be reborn. A god can’t save you and no god created the world.

That’s not remotely the same thing that Christians mean when we talk about God. A much closer Buddhist analogy to our God would be Nirvana, or in Mahayana Buddhism “Buddha nature.”

How about we forget about the word “god” altogether? It’s just confusing.

Instead, ask: what is the source of everything? Is there such a source? If there is, what characteristics might it have?

That was kind of what I meant? If there is a source, you have to define it, or it will just be a source.

Then look at the relatively few serious, worldwide religions out there. The three monotheistic Western religions–which roughly agree on the nature of God, except that we Christians throw in that weird Trinity thing; Hinduism (which has a lot of affinities with various other traditions, and can be seen as the most sophisticated version of a fairly broad set of religious patterns); and Buddhism. Buddhism is the closest to atheism–but it’s tricky, because there are different forms of Buddhism.

Edwin

Yes…which is basically what I said at the original post…

 

[Contarini]

Well, cheer me on, then. That was what I meant…

Then why are you on a Catholic forum? And since you grew up Catholic, why is the discovery that fundamentalism is false such a big deal?

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

That was kind of what I meant? If there is a source, you have to define it, or it will just be a source.

Right–but you are assuming that there is something called “a god”–a concept you assume is common to all the religions, though you believe that they differ on which is the right one–and that the question is whether the “god” believed in by one of the religions is the source of everything, or whether all the religions are equally false. Do I get your position more or less right?

My point is that that makes hash of the whole issue from the start. It makes no sense to ask whether “a god” exists. It makes sense to ask: “what is the nature of reality, and do any of the religions give a convincing picture of reality?”

It would be much truer to say that different religions define “god” differently, but that everyone who believes in God is obviously talking about the same thing.

Edwin

 

[Kathy_W_Frye]

Hey, it’s noon. This is bordering on obsession!!! Take a break, watch this
youtube.com/watch?v=Ca7hJlv8wtU

It is part I of III so be sure you watch all 3, only 10 minutes each. Don’t let us down, you have hung in there for nearly 4 hours so far, what is 30 minutes?? Dare you to watch it before posting any more of the same old same old resistance to truth. Gotta watch all 3 segments.

 

[NotReligous]

1.BUT I AM TALKING ABOUT CATHOLICISM You are lumping all religions into the category of they defy reason. I am saying that Catholicism is the only religion that does not defy reason. Catholicism is the only compliment to reason and science.

Not the only one, but one of them yes.

How about this?

How can you explain the constants in the universe anthropic values - values which will give rise to a life form. These constants have the precise number that makes the universe able to sustain life. For instance:

If the weak force coupling constant were off by 1 part in 10 to the 50th power in either one direction or the other life could not exist. If it goes in one direction the universe has a catastrophic collapse. The universe is so explosive that those explosions disrupt the formation of life. How in the world did the Weak Force Coupling Constant have the precise value that it had so that we could avoid catastrophe?

How about the Strong Nuclear Force Constant. If it is increased by 2% then Hydrogen could not exist. Thus Life could not exist. If it is decreased by 2 % then we could have no element heavier than Hydrogen and again no life could exist.

How can you explain these two constants being exactly right, if there is No God in charge of them. If it were left up to chance, life could not exist. The only way these constants exist the way they do so that life can exist is if they have an intelligent designer.:dancing:

First of all, the forces are there, but the space could have been far better for life, it is 99.99999% inhabitable, and there does not appear any intelligent design to it. Just because life as we know it could not have formed in a different kind of other level, it doesn’t mean that this universe was designed to us!

Life adapts to its environment, making the environment seem perfectly designed to it.

hug1: - So Many people are getting frustrated with you right now. You probably need a hug here it is.

God Bless You!

Thanks for the hug!" Here is a link for a longer explanation, for I have to leave these forums for the night… (oh my god the posts tomorrow )

EDIT; Found it; youtube.com/watch?v=7Dmc_a_E5w0&videos=rOa_RPLgDCA

 

[NotReligous]

Then why are you on a Catholic forum? And since you grew up Catholic, why is the discovery that fundamentalism is false such a big deal?

Edwin

It is not a huge deal…my father just happens to be one.

 

[SOTER502]

Well, I am “no atheist” then. (a horrible joke ) Here, this is the best way to explain it;

The formation of DNA, link (I didn’t even get the 3 turn argument…)

youtube.com/watch?v=v8nYTJf62sE&videos=_0qwuTi_Zrc

Well, that video is a joke. Just to state " somehow polynucleotides formed, and they made RNA , and RNA started to copy itself " simply doesnt explain ANYTHING.

You must be able to explain , how coded information in DNA formed by itself by chance, without a mind.

 

[Contarini]

First of all, the forces are there, but the space could have been far better for life, it is 99.99999% inhabitable, and there does not appear any intelligent design to it. Just because life as we know it could not have formed in a different kind of other level, it doesn’t mean that this universe was designed to us!

Life adapts to its environment, making the environment seem perfectly designed to it.

Thanks for the hug!" Here is a link for a longer explanation, for I have to leave these forums for the night… (oh my god the posts tomorrow )

  Dang! I couldn't find the video...I'll post is as soon as I find, I swear. :(

The post to which you were responding was not me–just to keep the record clear!

 

[Contarini]

It is not a huge deal…my father just happens to be one.

A fundamentalist?

So you grew up Catholic, but your dad has abandoned Catholicism for fundamentalism at some point?

Or do you mean that he’s a Catholic who believes in creationism?

Edwin

 

[NotReligous]

A fundamentalist?

So you grew up Catholic, but your dad has abandoned Catholicism for fundamentalism at some point?

Or do you mean that he’s a Catholic who believes in creationism?

Edwin

He was a Catholic Creationist.