I am an atheist

[_A]

I’m sure you are correct that many intelligent people have found nothing. Other thoughtful people are like C.S. Lewis who was an atheist who became a Christian. He wrote that he went kicking and screaming into the family of God after he finally discovered evidence he could not ignore.

Please tell me, if it is not too much trouble, what evidence, if we could provide it, would you accept as proof that God exists?

It’s a tough question. In short I don’t think that you (or any person) could provide any evidence. Yahweh is supposed to be powerful enough to provide his own evidence. When people try to convince me that one of the gods exists, they usually mix in their own motives, and try to appear as if they have some ‘special knowledge’ about how Yahweh wants *me *to behave. I say that is advancing the desires of men or the church, not Yahweh.
I have not looked at your evidence yet, so don’t think I am completely closed to it. I simply can’t imagine what you could present that would account for all the wild claims made by the bible.

 

[bogoljub]

I am going to try to answer your questions as clearly as I can. I would ask that you remember that this is a potentially ‘hot’ issue, so let’s try our best to remain polite to each other.

The only thing that atheists have in common is that they don’t believe in a god. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that one represents the other.
Why would someone want to believe in something? Do you want to believe in Allah? Is it a fault of yours if you do not?
I have only lack of proof to cement my atheism. You say that you have proofs, please present them.

What you are asking about accepting and searching doesn’t make much sense to me. Could you be more clear about what you are asking, please?

God bless !

It is your choice to accept God or not !
It depends what u mean with “believe” - to hold to an uncertain thing - that’s not what I mean when says I believe.
It would better to say confess- I confess- to you there is a God -it is a fact there is nothing uncertain. We can proof it - it is not a fairy tale - we have facts !

1. You do not want to believe, but you are a believer- because u believe that there is no God and your believe is a very uncertain and unlogic one -you have no proofes for this belive
2. Instead of God believers we believe that there is a God and we know it - we have proofes and facts many, this believe is not uncertain.

Do u see the differences - you are also a "believer " but your faith instead of mine is very uncertain and without any testimonie !

In CHRIST

 

[_A]

God bless !

It is your choice to accept God or not !
It depends what u mean with “believe” - to hold to an uncertain thing - that’s not what I mean when says I believe.
It would better to say confess- I confess- to you there is a God -it is a fact there is nothing uncertain. We can proof it - it is not a fairy tale - we have facts !

1. You do not want to believe, but you are a believer- because u believe that there is no God and your believe is a very uncertain and unlogic one -you have no proofes for this belive
2. Instead of God believers we believe that there is a God and we know it - we have proofes and facts many, this believe is not uncertain.

Do u see the differences - you are also a "believer " but your faith instead of mine is very uncertain and without any testimonie !

In CHRIST

Let me try to explain something about belief. I don’t believe in the theory of evolution by natural selection. If, however, I needed to use a theory about biology to predict some aspect of biology, I would use it. The reason is that, as a biological theory, evolution offers a much more useful group of information than genesis.
Even when I have successfully used evolution, and even when the bible makes predictions which are not useful, I still don’t believe either.
If the bible provided theories about life that could be used to make accurate predictions - say more accurate than evolutionary theory, I would be using it. Still would not believe it, though.
Instead, the bible tossed such odd and incomprehensible bits in there, it makes itself useless to me even as a any kind of guide.
I will admit that it isn’t easy to get my point across about this, so I will just ask that you look at a bit of scripture, and see that it doesn’t make any sense at all…it’s Deuteronomy Chapter 23 verse 1.

 

[inthecloud]

Originally Posted by A
“I can’t see how that could matter. Men (humans, I mean) wrote Genesis, and other men have been translating and changing it for hundreds of years. When you refer to the bible, which one particularly do you use? Did you know there are several out there to choose from? How do you know you have chosen the right one?”
A as the second poster I can say this tread had wings!

Do not worry. I remember a former atheist poster that converted to open theism and was investigating religions that Catholics and Orthodox were the christians that thread him better when he was an atheist.
But since this is your openig post and there are several themes I suggest to break them is several post in the Philosophy and fellowship areas. I was raised Catholic, lapsed into theism and open theism and now I’m investigating my childhood faith again.
About your Bible quote: one point of being Catholic is that there is not THE PERFECT BIBLE. Modern biblical scolarship and things like translations problems are textual versions are taken in account for Church teachings. No fundamentalism here. Well there are some DR onlyists (the catholic variant of the KJV only) but not many.
You must little know fact that the man that the Big Bang theory came out of the research of a deistic/pantheistic Jew and a theistic belgian who was a Catholic Priest and a Abbot to boot! They did not see their scientific knowledge as a obstacle to believing in some form of God. Some personal experiences (too cheesy to talk here for now) had prevented me to slide into atheistic materialism.

 

[bogoljub]

Let me try to explain something about belief. I don’t believe in the theory of evolution by natural selection. If, however, I needed to use a theory about biology to predict some aspect of biology, I would use it. The reason is that, as a biological theory, evolution offers a much more useful group of information than genesis.
Even when I have successfully used evolution, and even when the bible makes predictions which are not useful, I still don’t believe either.
If the bible provided theories about life that could be used to make accurate predictions - say more accurate than evolutionary theory, I would be using it. Still would not believe it, though.
Instead, the bible tossed such odd and incomprehensible bits in there, it makes itself useless to me even as a any kind of guide.
I will admit that it isn’t easy to get my point across about this, so I will just ask that you look at a bit of scripture, and see that it doesn’t make any sense at all…it’s Deuteronomy Chapter 23 verse 1.

God bless !

Hmmmm what should I say ? I am not so interested in evolution or the different Theories about the beginning of the earth !

Let me only tell you that the Bible is a theological book and not for secular sientisitic Theories. What Bible wants to speak about God and his will …and not about Biology…

No secular sience can tell u if there is a God or not - but of course there are logical reason for . If u like big bang or something else - you must know that from out of nothing can not be created anything. Nothing is nothing…nothing can not be change into big bang - do u not see that this would be foolish !
Because there must be a reason for that big bang and a reason for the reason until u come to the real Beginning and this beginning is God ----like Genesis says IN the BEGINNING…

The question is do u want to find God and would u accept him ?

This must be answered first - than we can go on !

In CHRIST

I am looking forward for yor answer

 

[PaulDupre]

I will admit that it isn’t easy to get my point across about this, so I will just ask that you look at a bit of scripture, and see that it doesn’t make any sense at all…it’s Deuteronomy Chapter 23 verse 1.

Hi A,

Actually this verse makes perfect sense if you look at the context. First, remember that this is the Old Testament, whose disciplines (as distinct from doctrines) do not apply to Christians. Chapter 23 is describing a discipline, not a doctrine. It lists those who could not be admitted to public worship as part of the Jewish community.

The list included those men who had lost their testicles. The reason was that all the men who worshipped at the tabernacle represented their families as priests, and so were acting in the person of the Messiah. Just as the passover lamb was to be perfect and unblemished (as a foreshadowing of the sinless Christ), so those who acted in his name were to be unblemished (no loss of body parts, no leprosy, etc).

It wasn’t saying that God didn’t welcome these men to worship Him; it was saying that a certain integral symbolism had to be preserved in the public ritual (which was didactic as well as worshipful) for the sake of those participating in the ritual. This symbolism included the unblemished male priest/worshipper as well as the unblemished sacrificial lamb.

Hope this helps,
Paul

 

[HailMary]

Allright, go ahead and tell me. I should warn you, though, I wasn’t present at the creation of the earth. I am unlikely to believe that you were here also.
This brings us right back to using the bible to prove the bible - hurrying about in circles is what it looks like.

Before I begin, just curious, what are you thoughts on the creation of the cosmos, the creation of humanity, and all life. Do you believe in the big bang theory? Where did the universe come from?

 

[AgnosTheist]

Do you believe in the big bang theory? Where did the universe come from?

Im sure you know the answers to that. But let me ask you, why do you think atheists and agnostics believe in the Big Bang Theory and not in the Abrahamic God?

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I lived for several years in Calgary. I found chinooks really tough to get used to. Don’t get me wrong - it’s nice when the temperature jumps 30 or more degrees in a day, but you don’t know how to dress for work…it can confuse you right into a bad night, if you are cycling.

oh yea 3 in 1 jackets are essential. and I could do without the headaches somedays when the weather changes.

Did you know they filmed north of 60 just outside here in Bragg Creek? my sis like I said lived north of til her hubby retired. I will miss the cabin there and private rocky beaches. She probably will too, she wanted to stay at the cabin until ice breakup was over but her hubby a park guy wouldnt let her.

 

[_A]

The question is do u want to find God and would u accept him ?

The best answer I can offer is no and no.
I have no reason to.

 

[_A]

Hi A,

Actually this verse makes perfect sense if you look at the context. First, remember that this is the Old Testament, whose disciplines (as distinct from doctrines) do not apply to Christians. Chapter 23 is describing a discipline, not a doctrine. It lists those who could not be admitted to public worship as part of the Jewish community.

The list included those men who had lost their testicles. The reason was that all the men who worshipped at the tabernacle represented their families as priests, and so were acting in the person of the Messiah. Just as the passover lamb was to be perfect and unblemished (as a foreshadowing of the sinless Christ), so those who acted in his name were to be unblemished (no loss of body parts, no leprosy, etc).

It wasn’t saying that God didn’t welcome these men to worship Him; it was saying that a certain integral symbolism had to be preserved in the public ritual (which was didactic as well as worshipful) for the sake of those participating in the ritual. This symbolism included the unblemished male priest/worshipper as well as the unblemished sacrificial lamb.

Hope this helps,
Paul

I see, so it is a prejudice against the handicapped. Very progressve.

 

[AgnosTheist]

The best answer I can offer is no and no.
I have no reason to.

Have you pondered over what would it take to make you believe in God? Just curious.

 

[_A]

Before I begin, just curious, what are you thoughts on the creation of the cosmos, the creation of humanity, and all life. Do you believe in the big bang theory? Where did the universe come from?

I do not believe.Where did the universe come from ? I don’t know, but I know that it is not important to me.

 

[_A]

oh yea 3 in 1 jackets are essential. and I could do without the headaches somedays when the weather changes.

Did you know they filmed north of 60 just outside here in Bragg Creek? my sis like I said lived north of til her hubby retired. I will miss the cabin there and private rocky beaches. She probably will too, she wanted to stay at the cabin until ice breakup was over but her hubby a park guy wouldnt let her.

I am hoping to be in Fort Providence or Whitehorse (or maybe both!?!) to see and hear the river break. I have never seen it, but have heard that it is very impressive.

 

[_A]

Have you pondered over what would it take to make you believe in God? Just curious.

I don’t believe and I don’t understand why many consider it virtuous to believe. Do you believe in Allah?

 

[bogoljub]

The best answer I can offer is no and no.
I have no reason to.

God bless !

Ok. it is your choice !
So u do not accept God knowing that he exists - you do not like him but u know that he IS.
But u have a reason not to accept him ?

I personly do not like the “atheistic faith” !

In CHRIST

 

[AgnosTheist]

I don’t believe and I don’t understand why many consider it virtuous to believe. Do you believe in Allah?

I have encountered a few atheists who would believe in God based on some conditions. And I have encountered a few atheists who would never believe under any circumstances. Are you the latter kind?

 

[bogoljub]

I don’t believe and I don’t understand why many consider it virtuous to believe. Do you believe in Allah?

God bless !!

Sorry but this is paradox !
You BELIEVE that it is not good to BELIEVE- but are also a believer !

Yes I believe/know in ALLAH/ God !

In CHRIST

 

[_A]

God bless !

Ok. it is your choice !
So u do not accept God knowing that he exists - you do not like him but u know that he IS.
But u have a reason not to accept him ?

I personly do not like the “atheistic faith” !

In CHRIST

I don’t know that god exists. There has been no evidence that he does. As far as faith goes, atheism is a faith the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

I don’t need to believe anything to be an atheist. You need to believe something to be a theist. The things you believe have no evidence in favour of them. I am unable to believe without evidence.

 

[_A]

God bless !!

Sorry but this is paradox !
You BELIEVE that it is not good to BELIEVE- but are also a believer !

I did not say that I believe it is not good to believe. Please let me choose my own words and I will extend you the same courtesy.

Yes I believe/know in ALLAH/ God !

If you believe in Allah, why are you not a muslim? Currently you and I are infidels. What I was getting at is that there is no virtue in believing without evidence. Anyone can do that.