I am an atheist

[paarsurrey]

Doesn’t that book of yours say something about a womans testimony being worth less than a mans?
That makes your Quran about as true as any other horror story.
By the way, what does the Quran say should be done with apostates?

Hi

I think your response is not directly related to the topic.

As far as your asking about the concept of Islam/Quran/Muhammad about apostacy, Quran mentions no punishment for it except in the hereafter. This would be quite clear from the following verses in Quran:

[2:218] They ask thee about fighting in the Sacred Month. Say, ‘Fighting therein is a heinous thing, but to hinder men from the way of Allah, and to be ungrateful to Him, and to hinder men from the Sacred Mosque, and to turn out its people therefrom, is more heinous in the sight of Allah; and persecution is worst than killing.’ And they will not cease fighting you until they turn you back from your Faith, if they can. And whoso from among you turns back from his Faith and dies while he is a disbeliever, it is they whose works shall be vain in this world and in the next. These are the inmates of the Fire and therein shall they abide.

[4:138] Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the right way.
[4:139] Give to the hypocrites the tidings that for them is a grievous punishment;

Unquote

Thanks

 

[bobzills]

I will have another try at this, bobzills, but really, it is a logical fallacy called ‘argument from incredulity’. .

The question is how do you explain consciousness and the incredible creativeness of the human animal from a purely materialistic perspective.

 

[edgarddb]

The question is how do you explain consciousness and the incredible creativeness of the human animal from a purely materialistic perspective.

Earlier you mentioned Peter : Read it again and you will find in
2 Peter 3 : 3- 10 We must be careful to remember that during the last days, there are bound to be people who ** will be scornful**, the kind who always please themselves in what they do, and they will make fun of the promise and ask"]****well when is this coming?they are choosing to forget there were heavens at the beginning, and the earth was formed by the word of god(Jesus? My add in) out of water and between waters, so that the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded. But by that same word, the present sky and earth are destined for fireand are only being reserved untill judgement day, so that SINNERS MAY BE DESTROYED.
But there is one thing my friends that you must never forget: That with the LORD.ONE DAY CAN MEAN A THOUSAND YEARS, AND A THOUSAND YEARS LIKE A DAY The LORD is not being slow but is being patient with you all, wanting nobody to be lost,and everybody be brought to change their ways.

 

[Valke2]

Earlier you mentioned Peter : Read it again and you will find in
2 Peter 3 : 3- 10 We must be careful to remember that during the last days, there are bound to be people who ** will be scornful**,

Don’t need Divine assistance to figure that out. I doubt there was ever a time in written history when there was a shortage of scornful people.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

In short, and mainly in response to Socrates4Jesus, I would like to tell you about a litmus test that I have found useful.
If someone has faith in the bible or a god, that is OK.
If someone says that they know something about Yahweh, they are lying, and likely lying for profit. The RC church I grew up with made it clear that Yahweh would not offer evidence, because it was supposed to be taken on faith.
It is not perfect, but it has served me well, and I would offer that (imperfect) advice to anyone trying to avoid charlatans disguised as spiritualists.

Well, i cannot speak for the Roman Catholic church, nor for Catholics, for i am not one.

I think you are 100% correct that no one can possibly know the mind of God (if God exists). Funny, but the Bible says as much:

Truly you are a God who hides himself,

O God and Savior of Israel.

(Isaiah 45:15)
What you say makes sense to me. You or i can know little about God unless God reveals it to us. Do you think that if such a God exists revealing himself or herself to us might be something he or she would desire to do?

Maybe i’m just being human here, but if i created a race of people (either through evolution or some special act of creation) i’d want them to hear what i have to say to them. If they were hardwired to ask, “Why are we here?” i’d want to somehow reveal the answer to that question to them.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

It isn’t bad, but it is quite open to manipulation. The bible did make prophecies ( I mean Yahweh in his ‘Jesus’ apparition) about the second coming being in Peters lifetime - it was wrong. That one simple item can prove the bible stories wrong - despite the fact that others will just say that I didn’t read it correctlyl.

I think it would be fruitless to try to come to some kind of agreement about so controversial a prediction, and it would not be extremely convincing to discuss any vague, unfulfilled prophecies such as Jesus is returning soon.

No, what we need to examine are predictions of the future that have already come true and that are specific and verifiable. We need something where we can open the Bible and an encyclopedia and see that the latter confirms the predictions of the former made hundreds of years before the events occurred.

It has been said that nearly every ancient city within a 1,000 mile radius of Jerusalem has had its history predicted down to the smallest details in the pages of the Old Testament. What i’d like to do is to ask you to look at the predictions about just one ancient city and let me know what you think. It should not take long. Are you game?

 

[bogoljub]

If you can’t reduce the insults, I will be tempted to insult you back. Over your lack of skill with spelling, perhaps.
Keep your insults to yourself, and we can continue to get along.

God bless !

I did not want to insult you ! I only wrote what I think but if you want to insult me - no problem - please write about my "lack of skill with spelling " if u wish.

I can not see that you answered any question, you only make excuses.

You always want evidence - there are many - but why should we tell you ? As you said -would you meet God you would not worship him-so why should I give evidences to you - you would only blaspheme God.

In CHRIST

 

[_A]

Hi

I think your response is not directly related to the topic.

As far as your asking about the concept of Islam/Quran/Muhammad about apostacy, Quran mentions no punishment for it except in the hereafter. This would be quite clear from the following verses in Quran:

[2:218] They ask thee about fighting in the Sacred Month. Say, ‘Fighting therein is a heinous thing, but to hinder men from the way of Allah, and to be ungrateful to Him, and to hinder men from the Sacred Mosque, and to turn out its people therefrom, is more heinous in the sight of Allah; and persecution is worst than killing.’ And they will not cease fighting you until they turn you back from your Faith, if they can. And whoso from among you turns back from his Faith and dies while he is a disbeliever, it is they whose works shall be vain in this world and in the next. These are the inmates of the Fire and therein shall they abide.

[4:138] Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the right way.
[4:139] Give to the hypocrites the tidings that for them is a grievous punishment;

Unquote

Thanks

So a ‘peaceful’ faith like Islam maintains itself with vile and violent threats. Classy.

 

[_A]

The question is how do you explain consciousness and the incredible creativeness of the human animal from a purely materialistic perspective.

Evolution by natural selection.

The more one learns about it, the more that theory explains.

 

[_A]

The question is how do you explain consciousness and the incredible creativeness of the human animal from a purely materialistic perspective.

How do you explain how your god was created?

 

[_A]

Well, i cannot speak for the Roman Catholic church, nor for Catholics, for i am not one.

I think you are 100% correct that no one can possibly know the mind of God (if God exists). Funny, but the Bible says as much:

Truly you are a God who hides himself,

O God and Savior of Israel.

(Isaiah 45:15)
What you say makes sense to me. You or i can know little about God unless God reveals it to us. Do you think that if such a God exists revealing himself or herself to us might be something he or she would desire to do?

Maybe i’m just being human here, but if i created a race of people (either through evolution or some special act of creation) i’d want them to hear what i have to say to them. If they were hardwired to ask, “Why are we here?” i’d want to somehow reveal the answer to that question to them.

Gods don’t exist - any questions about what a god would want would be seriously flawed because the whole concept of gods is so clearly (and poorly) made by humans.

 

[_A]

I think it would be fruitless to try to come to some kind of agreement about so controversial a prediction, and it would not be extremely convincing to discuss any vague, unfulfilled prophecies such as Jesus is returning soon. [j/quote] vague? In Matthew, Jesus tells his disciples that he will return before they can “go over the cities of Israel.” Later (24:14) he says he will not come until the gospel is preached throughout the world. Well, his disciples went over the cities of Israel and then died waiting for the “return of the Lord.” Now, nearly 2000 years later, and long after the gospel had been preached throughout the world, his followers still wait. 10:23. I think it’s pretty clear that it’s bunkum.
Socrates4Jesus;2994446:

No, what we need to examine are predictions of the future that have already come true and that are specific and verifiable. We need something where we can open the Bible and an encyclopedia and see that the latter confirms the predictions of the former made hundreds of years before the events occurred.

It has been said that nearly every ancient city within a 1,000 mile radius of Jerusalem has had its history predicted down to the smallest details in the pages of the Old Testament. What i’d like to do is to ask you to look at the predictions about just one ancient city and let me know what you think. It should not take long. Are you game?

You could easily make your point here. Why tease me? If you expect me to ‘believe’ the bible, though, you are barking up the wrong tree

 

[_A]

God bless !

I did not want to insult you ! I only wrote what I think but if you want to insult me - no problem - please write about my "lack of skill with spelling " if u wish.

I can not see that you answered any question, you only make excuses.

You always want evidence - there are many - but why should we tell you ? As you said -would you meet God you would not worship him-so why should I give evidences to you - you would only blaspheme God.

In CHRIST

I would not worship Yahweh, I have said this is IF he is the Yahweh as described in the bible. If there were evidence that a god was real, I might think differently, but the notion is completely unsupportable. People say they have evidence, but actually just have self-delusion.

 

[bogoljub]

I would not worship Yahweh, I have said this is IF he is the Yahweh as described in the bible. If there were evidence that a god was real, I might think differently, but the notion is completely unsupportable. People say they have evidence, but actually just have self-delusion.

God bless !

Believe it or not - we have but I will not tell or show you even one-because you are not ready yet.

How can you say that we are under self-delusion - how can you know this ? Perhaps you are under self-delusion ?

You have no evidence for your belief !

In CHRIST

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Gods don’t exist - any questions about what a god would want would be seriously flawed because the whole concept of gods is so clearly (and poorly) made by humans.

You strike me as a reasonable person A. I believe you replied to someone else in this discussion that you do not deny the existence of God, you merely question it.

Please let me know if i misunderstand, but the assertion you are making, i believe, is that it is possible (but highly improbable) that God exists.

 

[_A]

God bless !

Believe it or not - we have but I will not tell or show you even one-because you are not ready yet.

How can you say that we are under self-delusion - how can you know this ? Perhaps you are under self-delusion ?

You have no evidence for your belief !

In CHRIST

If you had evidence of the existence of a god, it would be the biggest science news EVER. Since you keep saying you have it, but not producing it, I have no choice to conclude that you either don’t understand ‘evidence’, or are deliberately lying.
Evidence is not evidence if only some special kids can see it.

 

[_A]

You strike me as a reasonable person A. I believe you replied to someone else in this discussion that you do not deny the existence of God, you merely question it.

Please let me know if i misunderstand, but the assertion you are making, i believe, is that it is possible (but highly improbable) that God exists.

Before I answer, I would have to clarify that there are more than one (conflicting!) definition of ‘god’. If you mean the god of the bible, that one is CLEARLY bunkum. If you have another definition, then of course he may exist.
Every time someone has offered a description of their god to me, it has been ludicrous. Maybe yours is more reasonable. I have no way of knowing until I hear the description.

 

[bogoljub]

If you had evidence of the existence of a god, it would be the biggest science news EVER. Since you keep saying you have it, but not producing it, I have no choice to conclude that you either don’t understand ‘evidence’, or are deliberately lying.
Evidence is not evidence if only some special kids can see it.

God bless !

Yes we have - do you think it would be "a big sience News " ? Sience can help to understand the existence of God- nothing more. I think sience is the wrong “tool” to discover God.

It does not matter what you conclude- it would not be good for you -you are not ready yet.

Perhaps you will be once - but I think not yet- there is a long way to go.

In CHRIST

 

[_A]

God bless !

Yes we have - do you think it would be "a big sience News " ? Sience can help to understand the existence of God- nothing more. I think sience is the wrong “tool” to discover God.

It does not matter what you conclude- it would not be good for you -you are not ready yet.

Perhaps you will be once - but I think not yet- there is a long way to go.

In CHRIST

Funny - I feel exactly the same about you lol. I think this makes it equally impossible for you to view faith in a rational, evidence-based way. Thanks for trying to help me understand, though.

 

[_A]

If real scientific (independently verifiable) evidence for the existence of gods (or one specific god) did exist, it would be HUGE news. The fact that in thousands of years no such evidence has been presented is very important and meaningful evidence on it’s own.