- Status
P
Pax
Guest
No one has raised an objection to the use of Isaiah 13:9-22 as the primary example in the OT that has stirred criticisms against God’s actions. That being the case I will proceed to analyze the text to show that it is improper to call God genocidal and inhumane etc in terms of this passage.
I am presenting the passage again and it reads:
“Behold, the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the earth a desolation and to destroy its sinners from it. For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising and the moon will not shed its light. I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will put an end to the pride of the arrogant, and lay low the haughtiness of the ruthless. I will make men more rare than fine gold, and mankind than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the Lord of hosts in the day of his fierce anger. And like a hunted gazelle, or like sheep with none to gather them, every man will turn to his own people, and every man will flee to his own land. Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished. Behold, I am stirring up the Medes against them, who have no regard for silver and do not delight in gold. Their bows will slaughter the young men; they will have no mercy on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not pity children. And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pride of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them. It will never be inhabited or dwelt in for all generations; no Arab will pitch his tent there, no shepherds will make their flocks lie down there. But wild beasts will lie down there, and its houses will be full of howling creatures; there ostriches will dwell, and there satyrs will dance. Hyenas will cry in its towers, and jackals in the pleasant palaces; its time is close at hand and its days will not be prolonged.”
The first thing to remember about this passage is that it is a prophecy of what will befall the Babylonian Empire at the hands of the Medes. Needless to say, numerous empires came and went over the centuries in the middle east. The Babylonians were a cruel and ruthless people that enslaved those that they conquered. They conquered Judah and exiled and enslaved the people and forced them to abandon their religious practices in favor of Babylonian paganism.
A powerful and typical example of their cruelty can be seen in the Book of Daniel chapter 3. The narrative describes King Nebuchadnezzer erecting a golden idol and requiring everyone to worship it. Anyone that failed to worship the statue was to be thrown into a fiery furnace and burned to death. Three Jews…Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego would not worship the statue and the King went into a rage and ordered them to be burned in the furnace. This kind of behavior was common among the various pagan societies that existed along side the chosen people in the OT. They were incredibly barbaric and evil.
In Isaiah’s prophecy, God says that Babylon will be punished for what it had done to the chosen people. God is the primary cause and the Medes are the secondary cause. The punishment would be at the hands of the Medes and the Medes would raid, plunder, and kill everyone in their path including infants. The secondary cause is the immediate and direct cause in this case. God’s punishment of the Babylonians was not ordered by God and not carried out by God. The Medes simply became the instrument of punishment. The Medes were not good or innocent in any of this. The Medes freely chose to do what they did in plundering and conquering the Babylonians. The punishment is a result of evil men doing evil to other evil men.
God’s punishment of Babylon is attributable to God in that He is the primary cause of all things. Likewise, God did not provide protection to the Babylonians in the face of the onslaught by the Medes. Atheists simply look upon battles such as these as competitions for land, wealth, and power between antagonists. Atheists rationalize these events purely from a natural human perspectives. The Jews did not do this. The Jews focused almost exclusively on God as the primary cause with little consideration given to the secondary causes. That is why the horrible descriptions of the actions that would be taken by these barbaric peoples is described in terms of God’s “wrath.”
cont. on next post
I am presenting the passage again and it reads:
“Behold, the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the earth a desolation and to destroy its sinners from it. For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising and the moon will not shed its light. I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will put an end to the pride of the arrogant, and lay low the haughtiness of the ruthless. I will make men more rare than fine gold, and mankind than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the Lord of hosts in the day of his fierce anger. And like a hunted gazelle, or like sheep with none to gather them, every man will turn to his own people, and every man will flee to his own land. Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished. Behold, I am stirring up the Medes against them, who have no regard for silver and do not delight in gold. Their bows will slaughter the young men; they will have no mercy on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not pity children. And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pride of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them. It will never be inhabited or dwelt in for all generations; no Arab will pitch his tent there, no shepherds will make their flocks lie down there. But wild beasts will lie down there, and its houses will be full of howling creatures; there ostriches will dwell, and there satyrs will dance. Hyenas will cry in its towers, and jackals in the pleasant palaces; its time is close at hand and its days will not be prolonged.”
The first thing to remember about this passage is that it is a prophecy of what will befall the Babylonian Empire at the hands of the Medes. Needless to say, numerous empires came and went over the centuries in the middle east. The Babylonians were a cruel and ruthless people that enslaved those that they conquered. They conquered Judah and exiled and enslaved the people and forced them to abandon their religious practices in favor of Babylonian paganism.
A powerful and typical example of their cruelty can be seen in the Book of Daniel chapter 3. The narrative describes King Nebuchadnezzer erecting a golden idol and requiring everyone to worship it. Anyone that failed to worship the statue was to be thrown into a fiery furnace and burned to death. Three Jews…Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego would not worship the statue and the King went into a rage and ordered them to be burned in the furnace. This kind of behavior was common among the various pagan societies that existed along side the chosen people in the OT. They were incredibly barbaric and evil.
In Isaiah’s prophecy, God says that Babylon will be punished for what it had done to the chosen people. God is the primary cause and the Medes are the secondary cause. The punishment would be at the hands of the Medes and the Medes would raid, plunder, and kill everyone in their path including infants. The secondary cause is the immediate and direct cause in this case. God’s punishment of the Babylonians was not ordered by God and not carried out by God. The Medes simply became the instrument of punishment. The Medes were not good or innocent in any of this. The Medes freely chose to do what they did in plundering and conquering the Babylonians. The punishment is a result of evil men doing evil to other evil men.
God’s punishment of Babylon is attributable to God in that He is the primary cause of all things. Likewise, God did not provide protection to the Babylonians in the face of the onslaught by the Medes. Atheists simply look upon battles such as these as competitions for land, wealth, and power between antagonists. Atheists rationalize these events purely from a natural human perspectives. The Jews did not do this. The Jews focused almost exclusively on God as the primary cause with little consideration given to the secondary causes. That is why the horrible descriptions of the actions that would be taken by these barbaric peoples is described in terms of God’s “wrath.”
cont. on next post
P
Pax
Guest
cont. from prior post
This is necessary for a couple of reasons. One reason is to demonstrate that evil deeds will be repaid and punished. Another, is to emphasize that God is in control and that those that are at enmity with God and against the chosen people will receive just retribution. This retribution, in the case of the Babylonians, is not outlined and ordered by God. Instead, God allows the Medes to be the instrument of punishment by way of their own desires and tendencies. This is human action and free will in operation within the realm of divine providence. Obviously, evil is perpetrated against the evil Babylonians by the evil Medes. God uses this for good in that the chosen people are freed and they return to their own land to worship the one true God.
God was not genocidal or in anyway unjust or immoral. The barbarian Medes acted murderously, unjustly, and immorally. Their actions were the punishment for the Babylonians. Because of Babylons offenses, God would not spare them or protect them from their enemies. God’s punishment came by way of leaving pagan nations to their own human weakness and devices.
Atheists look at all of this as just a bunch of crude and barbaric warfare by primitive peoples. Christians and Jews vfiew all of this in light of God’s justice having been served. The actions described can also demonstrate to the pagans the utter futility of their pagan beliefs and their lack of morality. This can be seen specifically by returning to the narrative about Nebuchadnezzer having the three Jewish men thrown into the furnace. When these men were miraculously left unharmed, the King was astonished. He ordered the men to come out of the furnace and referred to them as “servants of the most high God.”[Daniel 3:26]
All of this gives us some insight into the role of free will. Man’s free will is preserved and must be if we are to be truly human. This characteristic which is essential to our humanity can be exercised for good or it can be exercised for evil. The Creator can use “our” free will actions, even when they are evil, to accomplish something good.
I hope this begins to answer your concerns about the actions of Yahweh in the OT.
This is necessary for a couple of reasons. One reason is to demonstrate that evil deeds will be repaid and punished. Another, is to emphasize that God is in control and that those that are at enmity with God and against the chosen people will receive just retribution. This retribution, in the case of the Babylonians, is not outlined and ordered by God. Instead, God allows the Medes to be the instrument of punishment by way of their own desires and tendencies. This is human action and free will in operation within the realm of divine providence. Obviously, evil is perpetrated against the evil Babylonians by the evil Medes. God uses this for good in that the chosen people are freed and they return to their own land to worship the one true God.
God was not genocidal or in anyway unjust or immoral. The barbarian Medes acted murderously, unjustly, and immorally. Their actions were the punishment for the Babylonians. Because of Babylons offenses, God would not spare them or protect them from their enemies. God’s punishment came by way of leaving pagan nations to their own human weakness and devices.
Atheists look at all of this as just a bunch of crude and barbaric warfare by primitive peoples. Christians and Jews vfiew all of this in light of God’s justice having been served. The actions described can also demonstrate to the pagans the utter futility of their pagan beliefs and their lack of morality. This can be seen specifically by returning to the narrative about Nebuchadnezzer having the three Jewish men thrown into the furnace. When these men were miraculously left unharmed, the King was astonished. He ordered the men to come out of the furnace and referred to them as “servants of the most high God.”[Daniel 3:26]
All of this gives us some insight into the role of free will. Man’s free will is preserved and must be if we are to be truly human. This characteristic which is essential to our humanity can be exercised for good or it can be exercised for evil. The Creator can use “our” free will actions, even when they are evil, to accomplish something good.
I hope this begins to answer your concerns about the actions of Yahweh in the OT.
P
Pax
Guest
God may indeed have options that are not available to humans, but the conclusions you have drawn are not logically supported.
Likewise, God’s infinite power may indeed mean that there could be multiple options and yes the bible can help us appreciate some of these things.
The problem is that we cannot make any reasoned judgments about what options are actually available and we cannot determine which is the best option. We simply do not see, know, and understand things beyond our feeble human abilities. God sees everything all at once and can make a supreme and perfect judgement because He created all things and intimately knows and understands them with perfect discernment while we do not.
Science fiction sometimes gives great insights into what I’m getting at. SciFi time travel tales show how changing some small thing in the past can radically change the future. Those that make the small change can never anticipate the ramifications. Man’s ideas for a better world that are in opposition to God’s plans would prove to be disastrous. The X-Files had a clever episode where Moulder meets a female genie that grants him three wishes. Moulder is a bright boy and wants to do something good. When the genie asks Moulder to make his first wish he took time to think before responding. He finally tells the genie that He wishes that there was peace in the world. Moulder’s wish is granted. Unfortunately, this could only be accomplished by the genie by removing all people, other than Moulder, from the face of the earth. Moulder’s second wish is to have the genie restore the world to the previous state.
Our judgments are nothing but straw compared to God’s and we have to be very cautious in attempting to apply simplistic understandings to God’s actions. I hope my explanation of Isaiah’s prophecy about Babylon demonstrates this point.
S
Socrates4Jesus
Guest
I’m willing to move on. Are you are willing to answer two questions?
*]Is your belief that Alexander the Great got his marching orders from the Old Testament based on objective evidence or preference?
*]If your belief is based on objective evidence and not a subjective opinion, are you willing to share that objective evidence with me? (That is, can you quote even one credible source, such as a respected modern historian or archaeologist or other scholar, who agrees with you?)
A
Aleii
Guest
Time being spent on work and family, will be another day or two before I can respond.
R
rboo124
Guest
Hi A, nice to meet you! Please take a moment to read this, as I assume there is a reason you posted in a Catholic forum and not just ‘any’ online chat forum…
I was raised Roman Catholic and slowly lost my faith and deteriorated to an ‘agnostic’ status. I have found sobriety and God in the past 2 1/2 years. I reverted back to Catholicism almost 2 years ago, after 20 years away. My wife and I have had our marriage blessed in the Church and she is going to RCIA to convert to Catholicism, herself.
I am struggling…I have a difficult time understanding the viewpoints of some Catholic believers, and some of the Church’s teachings. I am stronger ‘spritually’ than I am ‘religiously’. I continue to pray and attempt to learn.
If ‘religion’ is a problem for you, I would suggest reading Chapter 4 of the Alcoholics Anonymous ‘Big Book’, titled ‘We Agnostics’. It deals with atheism and agnosticism and is the sole reason for my reversion to Catholicism. (No, you don’t need to be an alcoholic or a drug addict to learn from this book…it’s a very easy, down to earth read and it’s suggestions can be applied to any lifestyle or belief system…even atheist or agnostic…but, it does turn a light on in the darkness of those two ‘beliefs’.)
After reading this chapter a few times, it rekindled my faith in God, shortly thereafter, Christianity. Several months later, that faith drew me back to Catholicism. That was my personal choice. The chapter does NOT endorse any type of religion or denomination…is not geared towards anything other than ‘God, as you understand Him’.
I couldn’t be more thankful for that book…though, it is only a ‘spiritual’ book, I would never have found my way back to Jesus without it. It may prove to be a great starting point for you, as it was for me. Catholicism was too ‘advanced’ for me when I was agnostic, I had to start simple and build from there. It’s still advanced for me in some respects, but I’m trying.
This book has been embraced by every religious denomination known, by medical and psychological professionals as well. I was encouraged by my priest to continue my reading of this book and AA meetings in general. It’s not ‘selling’ you on any belief system, but will certainly help you find yours if you want it. I believe Catholicism is the truth, and I feel this book will eventually lead people who read it to the truth if that is what they are really searching for.
Whatever you decide to do…I’ll pray for you! Fishing can also be a very spiritual experience, perhaps ponder life and it’s true meaning while you’re doing that, too!
S
Socrates4Jesus
Guest
You make some thoughtful points, Phooney. I’ll respond later when i have the time. Till then, take it easy!
A
_A
Guest
This is simple, and as inoffensive as I can make it, but let me try for more clarity.
Your god can’t do anything.
If I am mistaken, show me the evidence. Tell me about it in a quantitative manner, allowing for experimental (and independant) confirmation of your hypothesis.
I was just trying to show you in a simple way how your hypothesis is not reasonable, and not open to refutation (even by facts).
I will give your god another chance with the thumb war, unless you have a better test.
A
_A
Guest
I’m willing to move on. Are you are willing to answer two questions?
*]Is your belief that Alexander the Great got his marching orders from the Old Testament based on objective evidence or preference?
*]If your belief is based on objective evidence and not a subjective opinion, are you willing to share that objective evidence with me? (That is, can you quote even one credible source, such as a respected modern historian or archaeologist or other scholar, who agrees with you?)
I can’t. I am not an historian. I can say though, that a book which has been in the control of the faithful for thousands of years showing ‘evidence’ that faith has a rational basis does not surprise me at all.
I would not trust any evidence out of the bible because the stewards of the bible had nothing about them which would make me trust their words. They were believers.
If you want a credible source, I would suggest looking to hard evidence instead of stories written (and edited) by people with an agenda.
If you are an historian yourself, perhaps you can tell me what happened to the first people to convert the bible to English, allowing access to many more people. I don’t remember the exact details at present, but I think it went quite badly for them.
A
_A
Guest
I see that you misunderstand. Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of belief. I don’t need an answer, I am satisfied with not knowing for now.
R
rboo124
Guest
That is a silly statement. You are incorrect and do not realize it is you who misunderstands…Atheism is a belief that there is no God. Had you said you have no ‘faith’, you would have been correct. Saying you have no belief is false…you have a belief, in fact, you have many. You believe you are human, you believe that you breathe, you believe that your heart is beating inside of you, etc.
I think if you’re going to claim yourself to be an Atheist, it may help if you understand the term.
That is good that you are satisfied not knowing…I incorrectly assumed that posting in a Catholic forum and debating the existence of a monotheistic being implied some sort of ‘curiosity’ regarding. For instance, I have no interest in being a doctor, so I don’t go posting on Medical forums, telling the doctors that I don’t like medicine, but would love to discuss computers and chess. Something must be amiss here. lol
To each his own…live and let live. The good news is, if you hang around the barber shop long enough, you end up getting a haircut! Best of luck to you!
S
Sword_Brethren
Guest
Why are you here on a Catholic Site?
P
phooney
Guest
Sorry Rboo, this has already been dealt with. Atheism is not the belief that there is no God. I understand this thread is quite long so you have probably glossed over some of it and missed the several posts incorrectly asserting this and the posts refuting it.
L
look3467
Guest
I would like to star with an imaginary God and work forward from there.
The creation of the first set of parents, called Adam and Eve, is an explanation by God about our beginnings.
As to what time in history these parents were has little bearing on what is called “the fall of man” or as the story goes, “cast out” of the Garden of Eden.
Lets put that story aside for a moment and lets consider the conditions in which these couple were set in.
The conditions were such as they are today, no change.
- Flesh bodies =Born to die.
- Element = consciousness. (Here’s one of my words you requested explanation)
The element inherent in all flesh is a spark of spirituality undefined. (Explain later) - Lusts of the flesh is one where the flesh seeks to satisfy its own desires of which the body of flesh is in the midst of.
- Self rule, the thought of conquering, governing and or lording over another individual or individuals. (Otherwise understood as free choice)
- Pain and sufferings, means that this earth is not a friend to our bodies, but seeks to destroy it, couple that to number four above, and we have us a leader, leaders and or wars.
- The most important of them all is knowledge.
Mankind had to by trial and error, pain and suffering, wars, and battling of their own conscience, progress in knowledge through the generations.
Now let’s talk about the imaginary god.
The only element of the spiritual was a spark of spirituality innate in all flesh that caused gave mankind a cause to seek out something greater than them selves, something not touched with human hands.
Hence: the gods of all sorts throughout human history. Mankind had no idea who or what a god was, but in his or her minds, a god was something they could relate to by association, say of a tree, crop or an animal, the Sun, the Moon, or something to satisfy their yearnings for inner comfort and or peace.
All these folks cave man and all, lived, suffered and died and whose souls were sent to a holding place for visitation at a later time.
At an appointed time and times, this invisible entity, chose to reveal its self to mankind by visiting certain folks, one of which is Abram, later changed name to Abraham. (Father of faith)
By Abraham faith was defined as an action of obedience to wards this invisible entity, called for the moment, God.(A picture of Christ)
God spoke to Abraham and made a promise that of his seed, That seed, would be blessed to father the multitudes of souls, numbered as the stars, and or the dust of the earth.
Now we begin to have revelation to mankind via Abraham’s seed via the word of mouth from generation to generation.
From now on, we trace the journey, the path that leads us to that point where God Himself becomes flesh, but not before a law is set up to add degree to that word which is called sin.
Sin defined is a transgression of which all flesh is cursed with, which technically, is a separation from a spiritual state to a fleshly state, or for easier understanding, becoming as gods in the flesh.
(Meaning, have a choice between two extremes, good and evil)
Continued on the following post…
AJ
L
look3467
Guest
Continued from the previous post…
From Abraham we get Moses, the giver of the law, which constitutes the Old Testament, or the first covenant between God and mankind.
Purpose? To add degree to that word sin and give it a meaning that mankind could understand.
After Moses, we had the prophets, those selected to do two things as guided by the spirit of God, to warn the people of impending doom for their disobedience, and to give them an offer of hope in a coming Messiah, who was to deliver them from all evil, and one who would forgive them all the sins.
Keep in mind, that during these times all this is happening, on the other side of the coin, you have other religious beliefs and practices being developed totally foreign to that of the Israelites, or those of the linage of Abraham through Issac.
The time appointed has come, and God manifests Himself in spirit in human form to make restitution for all mankind, of which He had subjected to all those things, so that separation would no longer be the point of denial of souls back to the Father God of all creation.
The offer to God as a man in human form (Jesus) was the offer of forgiveness to God for all mankind.
Meaning, since God placed us in this hellish environment, it was up to Him to rescue us out of it.
And the sacrifice of God for mankind is of a human form given forgiveness as a vehicle for all souls to receive forgiveness for any trespass that was ever committed amongst all mankind.
Those in the holding place, or place of torment, as defined, were visited by non less than the greatest non sinner there ever was, but yet was credited with all the sins of all mankind.
That is why He was sent there to visit them and proclaim to them the good news.
God, promised Him total absolution, and that He should be the very first to be forgiven and restored, resurrected from that state.
Jesus then broke open to gates, that barred the exit of souls, and also opened the gates of heaven, which shut out all souls, and sent them all forth to heaven, empting hell of all it contents.
Now we arrive at the present day beliefs and understanding. Religion I believe is like a child, growing in knowledge and stature ever getting closer to that of which Christ the example was, but not before experiencing all the suffering and pain in its assent towards that heavenly goal.
The good news to those who were in hell is the same for us here on earth in a sort of hell as well.
The good news is that God in Jesus has found forgiveness for “all” mankind, and not just to a chosen few.
The whole object of God’s earth and humanity, in my opinion, is that He wanted us to experience what love really is, but only in an environment were love can be produced, such as flesh and earth.
To give us the opportunity to experience it without the penalty of eternal separation, or to say, all for nothing, as if one had existed, but in terms of the eternal, never existed.
The bible, then is the story of all that, given to us to study, to learn from it and for us to define who this mysterious god was, so that we may address Him as God of the universe and of our minute little souls, as insignificant as a grain of sand in the sea, He found worthy to save.
Now, as for your choice of not believing all this, that is perfectly OK, by God, for He knows that many will not believe, but still covers them all with the blood of Jesus.
You may live a life without God in His environment but will not reap the benefits that believer get from Him when they place their faith in Him.
These are the benefits: 1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Meaning, that we have the ability to overcome all adversity in the face of adversity with love, patience, comfort and hope.
As for the un believer- there may be faith in the sciences, but not any hope in something other than earth.
So it gives the un believer the earth for comfort, while the believer has God for comfort in the midst of the un believers world.
Hopefuly, I addressed those terms you asked about, and truly, from my perspective, you have been give every right to believe as you do, and I the right to love you as He loves you still.
Peace>>>AJ
From Abraham we get Moses, the giver of the law, which constitutes the Old Testament, or the first covenant between God and mankind.
Purpose? To add degree to that word sin and give it a meaning that mankind could understand.
After Moses, we had the prophets, those selected to do two things as guided by the spirit of God, to warn the people of impending doom for their disobedience, and to give them an offer of hope in a coming Messiah, who was to deliver them from all evil, and one who would forgive them all the sins.
Keep in mind, that during these times all this is happening, on the other side of the coin, you have other religious beliefs and practices being developed totally foreign to that of the Israelites, or those of the linage of Abraham through Issac.
The time appointed has come, and God manifests Himself in spirit in human form to make restitution for all mankind, of which He had subjected to all those things, so that separation would no longer be the point of denial of souls back to the Father God of all creation.
The offer to God as a man in human form (Jesus) was the offer of forgiveness to God for all mankind.
Meaning, since God placed us in this hellish environment, it was up to Him to rescue us out of it.
And the sacrifice of God for mankind is of a human form given forgiveness as a vehicle for all souls to receive forgiveness for any trespass that was ever committed amongst all mankind.
Those in the holding place, or place of torment, as defined, were visited by non less than the greatest non sinner there ever was, but yet was credited with all the sins of all mankind.
That is why He was sent there to visit them and proclaim to them the good news.
God, promised Him total absolution, and that He should be the very first to be forgiven and restored, resurrected from that state.
Jesus then broke open to gates, that barred the exit of souls, and also opened the gates of heaven, which shut out all souls, and sent them all forth to heaven, empting hell of all it contents.
Now we arrive at the present day beliefs and understanding. Religion I believe is like a child, growing in knowledge and stature ever getting closer to that of which Christ the example was, but not before experiencing all the suffering and pain in its assent towards that heavenly goal.
The good news to those who were in hell is the same for us here on earth in a sort of hell as well.
The good news is that God in Jesus has found forgiveness for “all” mankind, and not just to a chosen few.
The whole object of God’s earth and humanity, in my opinion, is that He wanted us to experience what love really is, but only in an environment were love can be produced, such as flesh and earth.
To give us the opportunity to experience it without the penalty of eternal separation, or to say, all for nothing, as if one had existed, but in terms of the eternal, never existed.
The bible, then is the story of all that, given to us to study, to learn from it and for us to define who this mysterious god was, so that we may address Him as God of the universe and of our minute little souls, as insignificant as a grain of sand in the sea, He found worthy to save.
Now, as for your choice of not believing all this, that is perfectly OK, by God, for He knows that many will not believe, but still covers them all with the blood of Jesus.
You may live a life without God in His environment but will not reap the benefits that believer get from Him when they place their faith in Him.
These are the benefits: 1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Meaning, that we have the ability to overcome all adversity in the face of adversity with love, patience, comfort and hope.
As for the un believer- there may be faith in the sciences, but not any hope in something other than earth.
So it gives the un believer the earth for comfort, while the believer has God for comfort in the midst of the un believers world.
Hopefuly, I addressed those terms you asked about, and truly, from my perspective, you have been give every right to believe as you do, and I the right to love you as He loves you still.
Peace>>>AJ
R
rboo124
Guest
I’ll be sure to check that out. My understanding is ‘Atheism is a belief that there is no God’…perhaps reading prior posts will change my opinion on that, but I’d honestly have to see that the explanation is backed up by a more reliable source than myself! lol (that’s rather easy to do…I’m not very reliable!)
L
look3467
Guest
Is He barered from God?
No, God loves him just as much as He love you, him or I.
Besides, if he wern’t here, what would we learn, thats new?
Peace>>>AJ
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