I am an atheist

[rboo124]

Is He barered from God?
No, God loves him just as much as He love you, him or I.

Besides, if he wern’t here, what would we learn, thats new?

Peace>>>AJ

Good point. Becoming educated is often unpleasant, but necessary. I’ve seen some pretty gorey things in my life that a part of me ‘wishes’ I hadn’t been exposed to, but on the other hand, not knowing was offering me no value.

Ignorance may be bliss…but it’s still ignorance!
(I use that phrase very loosely and tongue in cheek, I’m not accusing anybody here of being ignorant, the fact that people are logged into this site proves to me just the opposite.)

 

[_A]

That is a silly statement. You are incorrect and do not realize it is you who misunderstands…

Calling me silly would be a personal attack, and against the rules of this board. Since it is my statement you found silly, I will simply demonstrate how silly yours is.

Atheism is a belief that there is no God.

Are you making an honest mistake here, or lying? I don’t believe. I don’t believe that there is a god. I don’t believe that there is no god. I don’t believe in the theory of evolution. Belief gets in the way of learning.

Had you said you have no ‘faith’, you would have been correct. Saying you have no belief is false…you have a belief, in fact, you have many. You believe you are human,

I do not. This is another example of you making a silly statement. How do you even know that I am a person and not a sophisticated posting computer? Answer is, you don’t know, so you can’t know that I believe I am human. If it became important to decide if I was human, I would examine the definition of human, and begin experimenting to see if I was indeed human. I would still not believe, though, since the definition, or my self could change. (is a pile of ashes that was once a human still a human?)

you believe that you breathe, you believe that your heart is beating inside of you, etc.

I do not. If I need that bit of info, I will go through the same procedure I noted above. No belief needed.

I think if you’re going to claim yourself to be an Atheist, it may help if you understand the term.

Many people who hear that I am an atheist try to assign beliefs to me. That is not fair. Atheist is entirely consistent with lacking in belief, as I hope you can understand now.

That is good that you are satisfied not knowing…I incorrectly assumed that posting in a Catholic forum and debating the existence of a monotheistic being implied some sort of ‘curiosity’ regarding.

I am curious. I am curious particularly about how people come to believe the stories which I see as so much nonsense and propaganda. I still do not understand this belief, but I am beginning to.

 

[_A]

Why are you here on a Catholic Site?

To chat, learn, and perhaps make friends. Why are you here?

 

[Valke2]

Continued from the previous post…

From Abraham we get Moses, the giver of the law, which constitutes the Old Testament, or the first covenant between God and mankind.

God made covenants with Noah and Abraham, prior to Moses.

After Moses, we had the prophets, those selected to do two things as guided by the spirit of God, to warn the people of impending doom for their disobedience, and to give them an offer of hope in a coming Messiah, who was to deliver them from all evil, and one who would forgive them all the sins.

Moses himself was a prophet (I know about 20 million people who would say “the greatest prophet”). Which prphets talk about a Messiah who will forgive all sins??

The offer to God as a man in human form (Jesus) was the offer of forgiveness to God for all mankind
Meaning, since God placed us in this hellish environment, it was up to Him to rescue us out of it.

Did Jesus ever compare existence to hell? Did he ever say he was here to forgive all mankind?

 

[contramundum7]

Don’t have time to read all responses to your thread, so hope i am not being repetitious.

You are an atheist because you have never spent time with Jesus Christ (in His Real Presence, in the Church)…

I could say more, but i am running out of time & maybe that’s all that needs to be said anyway…

 

[phooney]

Thanks for that.

 

[_A]

Now, as for your choice of not believing all this, that is perfectly OK, by God, for He knows that many will not believe, but still covers them all with the blood of Jesus.

I looked - no blood on me. I have proved you wrong with a simple fact that you have misstated. I siezed on this statement because it has understandable words in it. You never did define those words I asked for, but instead put a lot of effort into writing a lovely fiction story. I have read the bible, you didn’t need to do that.
The reason I wanted your definition is that there are none which are satisfactory. If you were to define ‘Yahweh’ and I found a flaw in your definition (such as the ridiculous notion in the bible that he is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent) you would simply say that I misunderstood. I understand the language in the bible just fine. What I don’t understand is why is it ‘believed’ to be the work of an omnipotent being when it is loaded with errors? (bats are called ‘birds’ in one part and ‘pi’ called equal to 3 in another)

 

[_A]

Don’t have time to read all responses to your thread, so hope i am not being repetitious.

You are an atheist because you have never spent time with Jesus Christ (in His Real Presence, in the Church)…

I could say more, but i am running out of time & maybe that’s all that needs to be said anyway…

I spent my formative years in catholic inculcation and indoctrination. Reason has led me away from church, and the bible. Your statement presumes a lot about me, when you could ask me instead of presuming.

 

[Valke2]

The Torah refers to bats as non-kosher birds. It isn’t a question of error (in this case). The truth is that there is no single correct system of animal classification. Animals are classified based on the criteria that are relevant to the situation. In this case, kosher and not kosher animals. Zoology is concerned with anatomy. The Torah classifies animals based on how they move or stand.

Having said that, I will agree there are contradictions in the Torah. However, fortunately for me, every one of those contradictions has an important truth to teach me.

 

[_A]

Having said that, I will agree there are contradictions in the Torah. However, fortunately for me, every one of those contradictions has an important truth to teach me.

So this means, even if you knew it was wrong, as you have admitted, you would look for a way to make it still seem right?
Doesn’t sound like I will be following your lead there…in fact, it sounds like you are expressing an immunity to sane examination of this particular document. I hope I am mistaken.

 

[East_and_West]

I spent my formative years in catholic inculcation and indoctrination. Reason has led me away from church, and the bible. Your statement presumes a lot about me, when you could ask me instead of presuming.

Thomas Aquinas buddy.

 

[phooney]

Yeah… Thomas Aquinas!

 

[Valke2]

So this means, even if you knew it was wrong, as you have admitted, you would look for a way to make it still seem right?
Doesn’t sound like I will be following your lead there…in fact, it sounds like you are expressing an immunity to sane examination of this particular document. I hope I am mistaken.

I am saying that there is nothing in Torah that can’t be studied and provide value and improvement to my life. The prohibition against eating bats for example. I learn that even though God endowed us with power over all the earth, we are not God and it is necessary to impose limits on our power. We are not free to do whatever we want and this is reflected in a kosher diet. The fact that the bat is called a bird does not detract from this particular lesson.

 

[look3467]

I looked - no blood on me. I have proved you wrong with a simple fact that you have misstated. I seized on this statement because it has understandable words in it. You never did define those words I asked for, but instead put a lot of effort into writing a lovely fiction story. I have read the bible, you didn’t need to do that.
The reason I wanted your definition is that there are none which are satisfactory. If you were to define ‘Yahweh’ and I found a flaw in your definition (such as the ridiculous notion in the bible that he is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent) you would simply say that I misunderstood. I understand the language in the bible just fine. What I don’t understand is why is it ‘believed’ to be the work of an omnipotent being when it is loaded with errors? (bats are called ‘birds’ in one part and ‘pi’ called equal to 3 in another)

A mountain is a mountain, but in the bible a mountain may mean a government, a kingdom.

The sea is a body of water, and in the bible the sea may mean a sea of people.

A lion is a lion and in the bible, Jesus is called the lion of Judah.

Blood is blood, but in the bible, His blood covers all your sins, of which sins are all spiritually accountable and forgiven.

In light of the scenario I painted for you the name Yahshua is means Gods salvation.

God created, God saves His creation.

The statement you chose is an appropriate one you to choose for in it you found a bit of comfort, not to your admittance, but just because you choose to quote it shows me that spark of life which is in you that is of God.

That is why I wrote it as such, because I feel I understand the love of God and something you may find beneficial.

But, I will not try to prove God by proof of evidences of science, or intellect but by heart and love as prove of His existence.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[_A]

Thomas Aquinas buddy.

If you meant the self-deluded fiction writer from the past, I don’t understand the reference. If you mean someone else, please elaborate.

 

[_A]

I am saying that there is nothing in Torah that can’t be studied and provide value and improvement to my life.

I am saying that there is nothing in Shakespeare that can’t be studied and provide value and improvement to my life.
I am saying that there is nothing in the works of George Carlin that can’t be studied and provide value and improvement to my life.
I am saying that there is nothing in Fiction that can’t be studied and provide value and improvement to my life.
You see how meaningful this kind of statement is?

The prohibition against eating bats for example.

How has this helped you in your life?

I learn that even though God endowed us with power over all the earth,

I have yet to see any evidence provided that this is not simply an hallucination popular among the faithful.

we are not God and it is necessary to impose limits on our power.

I will set my own limits, and I will thank you to set limits only on yourself, not on me.

We are not free to do whatever we want and this is reflected in a kosher diet.

I worked in a kosher kitchen, and have some small understanding of the diet. I also see many people who do not stick to a kosher diet, yet these people thrive

The fact that the bat is called a bird does not detract from this particular lesson.

What lesson? That you can’t mix milk and meat without hurting yourself? (cheeseburger eaters everywhere **prove **you wrong)

 

[_A]

A mountain is a mountain, but in the bible a mountain may mean a government, a kingdom.

The sea is a body of water, and in the bible the sea may mean a sea of people.

A lion is a lion and in the bible, Jesus is called the lion of Judah.

Blood is blood, but in the bible, His blood covers all your sins, of which sins are all spiritually accountable and forgiven.

In light of the scenario I painted for you the name Yahshua is means Gods salvation.

God created, God saves His creation.

The statement you chose is an appropriate one you to choose for in it you found a bit of comfort, not to your admittance, but just because you choose to quote it shows me that spark of life which is in you that is of God.

That is why I wrote it as such, because I feel I understand the love of God and something you may find beneficial.

But, I will not try to prove God by proof of evidences of science, or intellect but by heart and love as prove of His existence.

Peace>>>AJ

You have proved nothing to me in any way - scientific or other. You keep saying that you believe, but if you have no reason to believe, then why not believe in Krishna, or Apollo, or Baal?
Also, you are trying to say that your words are more accurate than what I read in the bible. Why should someone trust your interpretation? Can you prove that you have ‘divine knowledge’? Would even the other members of whichever church you have chosen agree with you? Would there be dissent among even them?
If you are convinced that your ‘personal feelings’ are evidence of the one true god, why do so many others claim exactly the same feeling, yet often provide contradictory evidence?

 

[look3467]

You have proved nothing to me in any way - scientific or other. You keep saying that you believe, but if you have no reason to believe, then why not believe in Krishna, or Apollo, or Baal?
Also, you are trying to say that your words are more accurate than what I read in the bible. Why should someone trust your interpretation? Can you prove that you have ‘divine knowledge’? Would even the other members of whichever church you have chosen agree with you? Would there be dissent among even them?
If you are convinced that your ‘personal feelings’ are evidence of the one true god, why do so many others claim exactly the same feeling, yet often provide contradictory evidence?

Friend, I gave you no proof of science and no proof of God in words, only in demonstration can I give you and proof of God.

My words are only accurate as faith in God is achieved, otherwise, as you say, why not believe in the other characters?

Now, “confusion of face” is a term used in the bible to hide identify of the real face.

Confusion is the beginnings of a search for truth, must as you admit to looking for in this forum.

I am at odds even with the sponsors of this form for they have been gracious enough to even allow the likes of you or I to grace the pages of their forum.

The demonstration of love is the greatest quality mankind can produce, and only in environment which threatens love, can love be exercised.

If, any one (Believer and non-believer) can demonstrate that quality, that love quality in the face of confusion, in the face of adversity and give forgiveness to wrongs done us, then that demonstration is of God.

There is no other proof of His existence other than that which is demonstrated in His honor, and that is love.

You and I are no different than any religious zealot, for we are all souls bought and paid for with a ransom.

Exo 21:34 The owner of the pit shall make it good, and give money unto the owner of them; and the dead beast shall be his.

“And the dead shall be his”, to make alive.

All humanity is considered dead to God and must be revived, re-born.
That is the bottom line.
Whether one does or not in this life, alive we will all be after this time is over.

If we can comfort each other while traveling through this world of pain and sufferings, that is the greatest good any one can do, but to fight over religious values, dogmas, only leads to conflicts.

Therefore, I resign from my trying to force others to know God, but instead, I try to demonstrate by action, His attributes.

If it is seen in me a form of godliness, then that is a testimony of His existence.
Much like if someone demonstrated a form of evil, would be classified as of the devil.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[geekborj]

T A is someone who I haven’t read. Unlike many atheists, I don’t mind someone trying to convert me. Of course this may take us down some tough conversational routes, but I have very few taboos about conversation, so go ahead and try if you like.
Thanks for the welcome, and since you suggested reading, I will suggest MY favorite book, Silverlock. Very little reason in it - it is mostly joy and fun!

Hello:

Actually this is what really bothers me about atheists. Seems they are too arrogant not to even understand what they don’t like to believe. More so to challenge others who understands both sides of the coin.

Sorry, but i have been an agnostic once or twice. Maybe tell us what bothers you not to believe in what we believe?

 

[_A]

Friend, I gave you no proof of science and no proof of God in words, only in demonstration can I give you and proof of God.

This doesn’t make any sense.

My words are only accurate as faith in God is achieved, otherwise, as you say, why not believe in the other characters?

Your words are so confused-looking that I have no trouble not believing them.

Now, “confusion of face” is a term used in the bible to hide identify of the real face.

Why would the author of the bible want to hide anything?

Confusion is the beginnings of a search for truth, must as you admit to looking for in this forum.

I am not looking for ‘truth’, this would send me down the road to belief, which, as has been pointed out, gets in the way of learning.

I am at odds even with the sponsors of this form for they have been gracious enough to even allow the likes of you or I to grace the pages of their forum.

The likes of you or I? I don’t mind if you insult yourself (though I think it is also unwelcome here - check with the mods) but don’t insult me. Why shouldn’t they allow people to discuss here? I think discussion is one way to learn. To me, that means that the developers of this forum are furthering learning. Good stuff. Thanks, CAF!!!

The demonstration of love is the greatest quality mankind can produce, and only in environment which threatens love, can love be exercised.

Again, this doesn’t make sense to me. Could you rephrase?

If, any one (Believer and non-believer) can demonstrate that quality, that love quality in the face of confusion, in the face of adversity and give forgiveness to wrongs done us, then that demonstration is of God.

Here is another place where I disagree. Every good is credited to your Yahweh, while every evil is not credited to him. Can’t have it both ways - either he created evil and likes it that way, or he is not omnipotent.

There is no other proof of His existence other than that which is demonstrated in His honor, and that is love.

If I show ‘love’, it is to my credit - no-one elses. Unless you want to credit Yahweh with the nasty stuff, too.

You and I are no different than any religious zealot, for we are all souls bought and paid for with a ransom.

I am quite different from any religious zealot. I have never been given reason to think that I have a ‘soul’ or that I am owned.
I own me.

If we can comfort each other while traveling through this world of pain and sufferings, that is the greatest good any one can do, but to fight over religious values, dogmas, only leads to conflicts.

Conflicts which could have been avoided if Yahweh just made it clear in the beginning. Again, this must be the way Yahweh wanted it (if he is truly omnipotent).

Therefore, I resign from my trying to force others to know God, but instead, I try to demonstrate by action, His attributes.

Since you have no way to know what his attributes are, I wish you luck. If you would care to use the attributes listed in the bible, then I can tell you that they are self-contradictory. You can see this, too, if you just list the attributes and study them.