I am an out gay man. Ask me anything.

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Exalt, I remember you from 2004 when you were here as a sincere Catholic youth leader. Were you struggling with same sex attraction at that time? What made you lose your faith? I have prayed a lot for you over the years, and I see it’s not yet time to stop.
 
I’ll tell you why he joined this forum.

He wants to bait Catholics.
He wants to shove his homosexual agenda into everyones face.
He wants to ‘normalise’ the abnormal.
He could have found out all he wants simply by reading through this thread. Instead, He wants to dominate a thread with a point of view that has been considered abnormal from the year dot.
He wants to set up the thread so his supporters can come along and tell us how we feel ‘threatened’.

And a whole lot more…
I have no desire to bait anyone into anything. I’m here for learning, for dialogue, and because I am curious. I also have no agenda. I am not concerned with evangelizing here.
 
(Edited)

A forum where someone simply expressing their views on life is considered a hostile action that needs to be discouraged is not a forum I would want to be a part of. What Exalts personal goals are with this topic are not something I care to speculate over. Even if he truly has some manipulative anti-Catholic scheme in mind that does not change our responsibility to respond charitably and honestly about our faith. As posters here it is important that we never forget that any google search with the word “Catholic” in it is likely to turn up this forum as one of its results and that we have many more page views and guests than we do posts. Even if someone constantly stretches you patience in topic after topic, that doesn’t alter the responsibility we have to represent the Church in a positive light and treat that person as another one of God’s respected children.
 
My first question has nothing to do with sexual desires. You said that you do not believe in God and so I would like to understand why you have such an interest in religions, considering that the very term religion means relationship with God.

If we move a little more on the topic of homosexuality I would like to understand why among all the religions you appear to have a special interest in conservative Catholicism. What do you mean with conservative Catholicism?

Now going to your sexuality, I wonder why do you say that you are thankful to be homosexual?
 
…#2. Yes, it does bother me. I don’t believe there are reasonable explanations for the opposition of same-sex relationships. It looks like those men are denying themselves positive sexual relationships for no good reason.
No good reason? I see several good reasons, not least of which are mental and physical health issues.
 
Yes, but you equated homosexual behavior with murder, domestic violence, torture, etc.
Of course I did no such thing. 🙂

The OP was asked about his version of morality in this post:
How do you know right from wrong?
And here was his reply:
I don’t know precisely why I believe in right and wrong. It’s something I think about often. I have a few beginning thoughts on the matter though, the first of which is this: What is right is that which encourages cooperation, exploration, and happiness, and I’m okay with accepting those things for thier own sake.
Thus, the person who seems to making
a very uncharitable comment
just might be yourself. 😉

(Since you mischaracterized the entire dialogue, applying comments and responses to me that I did not make.)
As you judge so shall you be judged.
Indeed. Universally. 😉
 
Exalt, I remember you from 2004 when you were here as a sincere Catholic youth leader. Were you struggling with same sex attraction at that time? What made you lose your faith? I have prayed a lot for you over the years, and I see it’s not yet time to stop.
Wow! I’m surprised you remember me from back then.

Yes, I definitely was struggling with unwanted same-sex attraction at the time.

I lost my faith for a few different reasons. The primary reason, though, was that I came to a realization that the evidence for Christianity was not adequate for believing in it. Other important factors: I did indeed struggle with my sexuality. I also was made very uncomfortable by some of things that went on in the Catholic youth ministry scene. Much of what I studied in the Bible made me very uncomfortable, too.

Thanks for your kind thoughts and prayers, by the way.
 
Those are two great questions, and I should answer them delicately.

#1. Is the Church’s stance on homosexuality insulting? Insulting isn’t the right word, but I do very much disagree with it.

#2. Yes, it does bother me. I don’t believe there are reasonable explanations for the opposition of same-sex relationships. It looks like those men are denying themselves positive sexual relationships for no good reason.
I would like to expand on both of those points if you don’t mind:
  1. I understand that you would disagree with it, that much was clear from the lifestyle you already claimed, what I am interested in is if you think that the churches teaching itself (and not members of the church) is damaging to homosexuals.
  2. Would you also be critical of a heterosexual catholic who denies themselves the experience of various sexual relationships because they are unwilling to have sex outside of marriage? Does the celibacy of the religious bother you, especially considering it is fully possible within Church teachings for the Pope to change it if he sees fit? Or is your primary concern with homosexuals due to their lack of options in the case that they wish to be Catholics?
 
Wow! I’m surprised you remember me from back then.

Yes, I definitely was struggling with unwanted same-sex attraction at the time.

I lost my faith for a few different reasons. The primary reason, though, was that I came to a realization that the evidence for Christianity was not adequate for believing in it. Other important factors: I did indeed struggle with my sexuality. I also was made very uncomfortable by some of things that went on in the Catholic youth ministry scene. Much of what I studied in the Bible made me very uncomfortable, too.

Thanks for your kind thoughts and prayers, by the way.
If you don’t consider what happened in your youth ministry scene private I would be very interested in hearing about it. If it is something you would rather not discuss then I understand fully.
 
A forum where someone simply expressing their views on life is considered a hostile action that needs to be discouraged is not a forum I would want to be a part of. What Exalts personal goals are with this topic are not something I care to speculate over. Even if he truly has some manipulative anti-Catholic scheme in mind that does not change our responsibility to respond charitably and honestly about our faith. As posters here it is important that we never forget that any google search with the word “Catholic” in it is likely to turn up this forum as one of its results and that we have many more page views and guests than we do posts. Even if someone constantly stretches you patience in topic after topic, that doesn’t alter the responsibility we have to represent the Church in a positive light and treat that person as another one of God’s respected children.
Obviously you like to preach. TheRealJulianne asked a question. I answered. If you find anything “uncharitable” in my post, let me know. You also made the mistake of being assumptive in your reply to me. That leads to misconceptions and misunderstandings and to long winded replies stating the obvious. However, I’ll take your post as an offer of 'charity", which is very charitable of me and I’ll be very honest!

Homosexuality, as an abnormal, deviant human act, disgusts me.

According to the Catholic Catechism, it is disordered and gravely so. It will get the practicing homosexual an eternity of pain and suffering. Of course, many profess that there is no God, which is something they can’t prove, so boy oh boy, aren’t they taking a mighty big risk! They trade in their immortal soul for the pleasure of fitting their sex organ into the alimentary canal of another man. That, of course, opens up a whole new area of debate with regard to their social irresponsibility, but that’s another essay for another day. The point is, their choice is fraught with a list of problems and dangers which is as long as both my arms and two legs combined and yet they pretend to be ‘happy’.

How’s that for honesty?
 
Wow! I’m surprised you remember me from back then.

Yes, I definitely was struggling with unwanted same-sex attraction at the time.

I lost my faith for a few different reasons. The primary reason, though, was that I came to a realization that the evidence for Christianity was not adequate for believing in it. Other important factors: I did indeed struggle with my sexuality. I also was made very uncomfortable by some of things that went on in the Catholic youth ministry scene. Much of what I studied in the Bible made me very uncomfortable, too.

Thanks for your kind thoughts and prayers, by the way.
I can’t help but feel that you really do believe in God, and wish that the Catholic Church would accept your life style. I believe, with your interest in religion, that you are like a little lost boy who’s looking through a window wishing he were part of the family. You could be, of course, but you would have to leave the gay life style. It can be done. I believe there’s a group called “Courage” that helps gays cope. Good luck and God bless.
 
Okay. Are you happy enough to accept a 20 year loss of life expectancy and other health complications associated with your lifestyle?

The Health Risks of Gay Sex
catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html
I believe it’s outside of the forum rules to talk about sexual acts explicitly, so I can’t address many of the points in that article. Sorry.

I will, however, say that much of that article doesn’t apply to me, or any other gay person I know.

That being said, sexual activity of all kinds – even when one is married – comes with risks. There are reasonable steps that you take to minimize those risks, and there’s a certain level of risk you have to be comfortable with if you’re going to engage in particular types of activities.

It’s helpful to remember that everything carries risk. Driving a car carries risks. Walking carries risks. Taking a new job carries risks. Eating carries risk. Risk is a part of our lives. Just because something carries risks doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it. You have to understand those risks, minimize them where you can, and prepare for the consequences if the worst should happen. That’s life!

And yeah, I’m comfortable with the very low level of risk I’ve taken when it comes to sex, and I’ve taken appropriate steps and precautions.
 
That being said, I do feel that there are some legal rights and protections that I don’t have. I live in Texas and am an employee of the state, actually. I’m not able to be legally married in the eyes of the state, and neither am I able to receive any kind of benefits for my same-sex partner. The government – which is supposed to guarantee equal rights and protection for all – currently holds the position that heterosexual relationships are superior to homosexual relationships. I believe that that is unjust discrimination and should be changed.
but you are able to legally get married, as long as you follow the same rules everyone else has to follow. I think that is very non-discriminating.

I don’t see the government holding the position that heterosexual relationships are superior to homosexual relationships just that they are different relationships. That difference is that heterosexual relationships are unique as the basis for the production of children. That said, I think the government has done a horrible job of working to support heterosexual relationships and in fact, in spite of some benefits, has dropped the ball with the relaxation of the divorce laws.
 
My first question has nothing to do with sexual desires. You said that you do not believe in God and so I would like to understand why you have such an interest in religions, considering that the very term religion means relationship with God.

If we move a little more on the topic of homosexuality I would like to understand why among all the religions you appear to have a special interest in conservative Catholicism. What do you mean with conservative Catholicism?
Perhaps that’s because where my personal background has been. I wonder if I’d have been born in an evangelical house, or an orthodox Muslim house, that that would be where my interest is instead of orthodox Catholicism.
Now going to your sexuality, I wonder why do you say that you are thankful to be homosexual?
I think the most surprising reason for me was that finding a romantic partner with lots of common ground has been very easy. I’m something of a nerd. I’m into games, nerdy movies, books, science, and it’s been incredibly easy to find other guys who’re also into all those things. Most of my straight friends don’t have that luxury.

Also, I sort of like being a little different. I’ve grown to like that I’m not just another white, heterosexual guy. There’s something special about me, something that makes my experience as a human being a little different from everyone else. I appreciate that, on a fundamental philosophical level.
 
It’s helpful to remember that everything carries risk.

And yeah, I’m comfortable with the very low level of risk I’ve taken when it comes to sex, and I’ve taken appropriate steps and precautions.
It’s also “helpful to remember” that genuine, deep happiness extends far beyond personal comfort, momentary pleasure, and a sense of being satisfied --or a sensate feeling-- of being satisfied.

The experience of humanity throughout the ages is that people are happiest when their lives are ordered, balanced, and in line with what is healthy. We all have a tendency to substitute our instantaneous pleasure, comfort, and satisfaction with what we rationalize as ‘happiness.’ The truth is that our happiness lies beyond our individually rationalized conceptions of morality and happiness, but is deeply tied to the social order and common moral ideals.
 
I can’t help but feel that you really do believe in God, and wish that the Catholic Church would accept your life style. I believe, with your interest in religion, that you are like a little lost boy who’s looking through a window wishing he were part of the family. You could be, of course, but you would have to leave the gay life style. It can be done. I believe there’s a group called “Courage” that helps gays cope. Good luck and God bless.
Can you see how that strikes me as condescending?

If we must descend into metaphor, I imagine this discussion like this: Me and people like me have been living over in one town, and y’all have been living in another town, and we’re coming together to have a calm, friendly chat.
 
but you are able to legally get married, as long as you follow the same rules everyone else has to follow. I think that is very non-discriminating.

I don’t see the government holding the position that heterosexual relationships are superior to homosexual relationships just that they are different relationships. That difference is that heterosexual relationships are unique as the basis for the production of children. That said, I think the government has done a horrible job of working to support heterosexual relationships and in fact, in spite of some benefits, has dropped the ball with the relaxation of the divorce laws.
From a purely political perspective it would be an advantage for the state to prefer hetro to gay life styles. Population is an import part of having a strong country and the gay life style doesn’t produce offspring. Look at a country like India it is very poor but because of its population it is a power, China, Brazil, USA, Russia, Germany, all have large populations. Countries with small populations usually have little political influence in the world- Iceland for example.
 
It’s also “helpful to remember” that genuine, deep happiness extends far beyond personal comfort, momentary pleasure, and a sense of being satisfied --or a sensate feeling-- of being satisfied.

The experience of humanity throughout the ages is that people are happiest when their lives are ordered, balanced, and in line with what is healthy. We all have a tendency to substitute our instantaneous pleasure, comfort, and satisfaction with what we rationalize as ‘happiness.’ The truth is that our happiness lies beyond our individually rationalized conceptions of morality and happiness, but is deeply tied to the social order and common moral ideals.
My life is indeed ordered, balanced, and totally in line with what is healthy. I experience joy that goes far beyond instantaneous pleasure or comfort. 🙂
 
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