I am Apostolic, you can't be Apostolic, Why I cant be Protestant

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism
The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism

According to the new Protestant religions,
The new religions (in particular, Calvinism and other more austere Protestant sects)

The secular world is properly addressing Protestants as a new religion.

This new religion has at least 5 main branches, Lutheran, Anglican, Calvinism, Methodism and Baptist. It is said that there are 33,000 denominations. This is discounted by Protestant apologists stating that there are 242 Catholic denomination, tragically counting The Catholic Church in America, The Catholic Church in Latin America as denominations. There are numerous Baptist types but in particular the Landmark Baptists. What follows is a summary of the notion of Church by these folks.

libcfl.com/index.html

Baptists Must Awake. Baptists and Baptist churches here and there are dipping their colors to this ecclesiastically evaporating, disintegrating movement. The simple, specific, serious purpose of this discussion is to plead with all the earnestness and conviction of my soul the cause of the simple New Testament church, the independent, self-governing body of baptized believers, as against the visible empire conception of Romanism and the universal, invisible, spiritual conception of Protestantism The New Testament church, opposed and oppressed by the visible empire church theory of papal Rome on one side and the universal, invisible, spiritual church theory of Protestantism on the other side, must awake to its danger and rise to its defense.

How do you engage a Landmark Baptist in an intelligent dialogue.
 
CopticChristian said:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism
The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism

According to the new Protestant religions,
The new religions (in particular, Calvinism and other more austere Protestant sects)

The secular world is properly addressing Protestants as a new religion.

This new religion has at least 5 main branches, Lutheran, Anglican, Calvinism, Methodism and Baptist. It is said that there are 33,000 denominations. This is discounted by Protestant apologists stating that there are 242 Catholic denomination, tragically counting The Catholic Church in America, The Catholic Church in Latin America as denominations. There are numerous Baptist types but in particular the Landmark Baptists. What follows is a summary of the notion of Church by these folks.

libcfl.com/index.html

Baptists Must Awake. Baptists and Baptist churches here and there are dipping their colors to this ecclesiastically evaporating, disintegrating movement. The simple, specific, serious purpose of this discussion is to plead with all the earnestness and conviction of my soul the cause of the simple New Testament church, the independent, self-governing body of baptized believers, as against the visible empire conception of Romanism and the universal, invisible, spiritual conception of Protestantism The New Testament church, opposed and oppressed by the visible empire church theory of papal Rome on one side and the universal, invisible, spiritual church theory of Protestantism on the other side, must awake to its danger and rise to its defense.

How do you engage a Landmark Baptist in an intelligent dialogue.
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If you could please clarify what you’re trying to say or the discussion you are trying to have, please inform me. I’m an idiot and I’m thoroughly confused. Thank you.

On that note, I would like to add a few things:

The whole Baptist concept of “simple gathering constituting” as constituting a church is not exclusive in Protestantism. Anglicanism and Lutheranism both agree in desiring a real, visible institution as the Christian Church. I think I’ve read one or two posts here by some of the intelligent Lutherans on here that asserted that “the Reformation is not over until the Church is reunited” or something of that effect. Well I think that’s just awesome.

Additionally, this guy seems to be implying the theory of Baptist continuationism (is that what it’s called?). There was an old Baptist theory that claimed that the Baptist Church has proper Apostolic Succession and historicity dating back to the Apostles, and that they, the true Church, soon became overwhelmed and suppressed by the Catholic Church and its new connections (and compromises) with the Roman government. It’s total nonsense, really, but I thought that should be noted.

Finally, the whole ‘Protestant Ethic’ has been long dismissed as incorrect. Historians have long attributed the ‘capitalist spirit’ to fiercely Catholic Southern Europe, with specific reference to the staunchly “Romanist” Italian maritime republics.
 
FabiusMaximus said:
If you could please clarify what you’re trying to say or the discussion you are trying to have, please inform me. I’m an idiot and I’m thoroughly confused. Thank you.

On that note, I would like to add a few things:

The whole Baptist concept of “simple gathering constituting” as constituting a church is not exclusive in Protestantism. Anglicanism and Lutheranism both agree in desiring a real, visible institution as the Christian Church. I think I’ve read one or two posts here by some of the intelligent Lutherans on here that asserted that “the Reformation is not over until the Church is reunited” or something of that effect. Well I think that’s just awesome.

Additionally, this guy seems to be implying the theory of Baptist continuationism (is that what it’s called?). There was an old Baptist theory that claimed that the Baptist Church has proper Apostolic Succession and historicity dating back to the Apostles, and that they, the true Church, soon became overwhelmed and suppressed by the Catholic Church and its new connections (and compromises) with the Roman government. It’s total nonsense, really, but I thought that should be noted.

Finally, the whole ‘Protestant Ethic’ has been long dismissed as incorrect. Historians have long attributed the ‘capitalist spirit’ to fiercely Catholic Southern Europe, with specific reference to the staunchly “Romanist” Italian maritime republics.
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Thank you. How do you engage in dialogue with an individual that denies a universal Church?
 
CopticChristian said:
Thank you. How do you engage in dialogue with an individual that denies a universal Church?
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The same way you engage dialogue with those who believe that their Church is the one true church no ifs, ands, or buts.

You try really hard and pray.
 
FabiusMaximus said:
The same way you engage dialogue with those who believe that their Church is the one true church no ifs, ands, or buts.

You try really hard and pray.
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Mormons are tough and of a different mindset. Most Protestants have a sense of the invisible church. These people are a little different that is why I asked. You are correct that so many of these fallible teachers declare themselves to be the true church no if’s and or buts and there are so many and that is why I narrowed it down.

The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church position as you know is infallible teaching based on Tradition that does not contradict infallible scripture. The belief is more than belief because it coincides with history and what is known, as Paul says, what is known about God can be seen in the world, the wrath of God is brought down on those that supress the truth. Look in the world and history to see if what you believe coincides with the record of history.

So we have infallible teaching based on infallible sources that provide certain certainty compared to fallible teachings based on infallible sources that provide uncertain certainty.

You may want to look where the Apostles started Churches and trace them backwards and forward. The Coptic Church was started by Mark. I would ask anyone to name the Apoostle that started their Church in antiquity.

You know that Christianity had a school in Alexandria, St. Athanasius, Clement and Cyril may be known to you. Well this is from which they sprang.
 
FabiusMaximus said:
The same way you engage dialogue with those who believe that their Church is the one true church no ifs, ands, or buts.

You try really hard and pray.
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If there isnt “one true church,” why bother believing? Christianity becomes a guessing game. Truth becomes relative. If all churches are equally true, none is true, and there is no such thing as religious “truth.” .
 
Jim_Dandy said:
If there isnt “one true church,” why bother believing? Christianity becomes a guessing game. Truth becomes relative. If all churches are equally true, none is true, and there is no such thing as religious “truth.” .
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This is a good reason that I cannot be Protestant.
 
Someone asked: How does one engage in an intelligent dialogue with a Landmark Baptist? Such is not possible using an inquisition style approach to rules of authority. i.e. So long as there is disagreement as to the relationship of scripture to tradition, there can be no real dialogue. It is still possible that both sides are wrong. God said what He meant, meant what He said. We are without excuse.

Infallibility is an interesting notion–and certainly cannot be applied to men, regardless which conclave may have conjured them.

“Father forgive them, they know not what they do.”

Peace,

James Least
 
Jim_Dandy said:
If there isnt “one true church,” why bother believing? Christianity becomes a guessing game. Truth becomes relative. If all churches are equally true, none is true, and there is no such thing as religious “truth.” .
Click to expand...
Well then what’s the point of dialogue? Just call everyone else schismatic and heretical and be done with it. Don’t waste your time and ours with these ridiculous ecumenical movements. Just prosletyze until you get all Protestants to convert.
 
This new religion has at least 5 main branches, Lutheran, Anglican, Calvinism, Methodism and Baptist. It is said that there are 33,000 denominations. This is discounted by Protestant apologists stating that there are 242 Catholic denomination, tragically counting The Catholic Church in America, The Catholic Church in Latin America as denominations
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.

242 Catholic denominations? How on earth do they figure there exist 242 Catholic denominations? The CC in other parts of the world ALL belong to the one and in the same church. Many Protestants,especially my experience with Baptists believe rites are denominations. Goes to show how much they do not know. It is another way of justifying their constant and never ending divisions.
 
What’s up with all of the “Why I can’t be Protestant” stuff? :confused:
 
James_Least said:
Someone asked: How does one engage in an intelligent dialogue with a Landmark Baptist? Such is not possible using an inquisition style approach to rules of authority. i.e. So long as there is disagreement as to the relationship of scripture to tradition, there can be no real dialogue. It is still possible that both sides are wrong. God said what He meant, meant what He said. We are without excuse.

Infallibility is an interesting notion–and certainly cannot be applied to men, regardless which conclave may have conjured them.

“Father forgive them, they know not what they do.”

Peace,

James Least
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James the least,
You have recollections of the inquisition. Your point is that the Landmark Baptist has no agreement on scripture and tradition and that prevents dialogue. Your opinion without foundation is that both sides may be wrong. If that were true what would be right. You see infallibility as a notion suggesting that it is a thought. Thanks
 
FabiusMaximus said:
Well then what’s the point of dialogue? Just call everyone else schismatic and heretical and be done with it. Don’t waste your time and ours with these ridiculous ecumenical movements. Just prosletyze until you get all Protestants to convert.
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Study and find that the World Council of Churches extended intent to join together, later many other Protestants bashed the WCC. The WCC wanted to stop the evangelizing with different messages so that those that heard the message were not confused with different conflicting messages, so that they all be one,listening to Christ. In time they reached out to the RCC. The RCC and the Eastern Orthodox dialogued and have moved towards some kind of union, the Lutherans and Methodist signed an agreement on Justification and there are ongoing dialogues with the RCC Reformed, Baptist and others.

Here in the trenches scripture is being tossed around, arguments are being thrown around and no one is confronting what the guys at the top are doing. I am just pointing out the differences and why I could not change. I want to know why others could not change. I take it you could not address “why I can’t be Protestant”
 
Swiss_Guy said:
What’s up with all of the “Why I can’t be Protestant” stuff? :confused:
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I thought and thought about lots and lots of stuff and thought that this was what I wanted to do. It is posting the Why I am Catholic in reverse. Do I not have the freedom to express myself?
 
Swiss_Guy said:
What’s up with all of the “Why I can’t be Protestant” stuff? :confused:
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Take a look at “Jimmy Swagart made me Catholic”, kind of like saying “why I can’t be Protestant” is it not?
 
CopticChristian said:
I thought and thought about lots and lots of stuff and thought that this was what I wanted to do. It is posting the Why I am Catholic in reverse. Do I not have the freedom to express myself?
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Ok. I was just wondering 🤷.
 
I don’t know if the Baptists consider themselves Protestants…:confused:
 
FabiusMaximus said:
Italian Evangelicals see the term as a pejorative.
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Well I guess it can be seen as a pejorative. But then again, some Catholics feel that way about the term Roman Catholic.

IMHO both situations seem a little over the top
 
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