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Kadaveri
Guest
The standard definition of a ‘Christian’ is someone who accepts the Nicene Creed, Hamba.
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Gerry_Hunter
Guest
Maybe in Muslim circles, but that doesn’t cut much ice here.
Some of my Baptist friends will stridently tell anyone who will listen that there is not only no need for a Creed, but that it is wrong to formulate or insist on one. They could certainly be considered to be among the more separated of our Separated Brethren, but they are undoubtedly Christians, I know first hand.
As for the poor lady who has so deluded herself as to think she can be both a Christian and a Muslim, she provides a classic (and tragic) example of the virtual absence of Christian witness that is to be found in the institutional Episcopal Church in the US. As tragic as she is, the number of Christians in thrall to that outfit, whose faith is in mortal danger, is even more tragic.
Blessings,
Gerry
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Hellisreal
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There is always that Christian Lite element to consider.
But, I agree. No Nicene Creed, no dice. (Just my personal thoughts on it)
Hope you are having a good day
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BelFarfalla
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Like most westerners who convert to Islam, she will most likely abandon Islam within 5 years… 75% or more do. The problem is that like her, most people convert to Islam based on superficial basis… such as she thought the prayers were pretty. Then once the get into the reality of it they are not happy with what they find.
Muslms are NOT Christians, they are detractors from Christ and His Word.
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Hellisreal
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Have you asked her? Is it maybe due to fear of family rejecting her if they find out about it?
Sorry, if you already mentioned this fact or not.
Could it be she is just trying to be very ecumenical?
Maybe she is just not convinced of either faith. Thus the flip flopping around.
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Booklover
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Hi Kadaveri! Hope you’re well too. There are differences though. I posted this on another thread.
"You either have free will or you don’t. This is where I think that the concept of freedom and free will in Islam and Christianity are so different.
Under Article 3 MAN’S FREEDOM our Catechism states:
1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.
" **Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will **and is master over his acts."
1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.
1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of *choosing between good and evil, *and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.
1733 The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to “the slavery to sin.”
1738 Freedom is exercised in relationships between human beings. Every human person, created in the image of God, has the natural right to be recognized as a free and responsible being. All owe to each other this duty of respect. The right to the exercise of freedom, especially in moral and religious matters, is an inalienable requirement of the dignity of the human person. This right must be recognized and protected by civil authority within the limits of the common good and public order."
I heard a priest on EWTN say that without freedom there is no morality.
In an article about why God allows catastrophes to make us turn to a better good, it states:
“Just as excessive intervention by human government would place excessive constraints on social life, so too if the Creator were to prevent men from using their free will in order to avoid their abuse of it, He would be infringing upon the rationality of their nature. Thus God allows catastrophes to happen knowing that the suffering caused by them can be trials that give rational creatures an occasion to gain merits through acts of patience, charity, dedication and even heroism. In addition, God also can make use of natural calamities and even of people’s misdeeds to punish humanity for its sins and to set an example for men.”
This is why I don’t believe in the “complete way of life” that Islam prescribes. It’s a complete infringement of God’s gift of free will and the right to make our own decisions.
Hope this helps!
Vickie
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hamba2han
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The real essence of this story is that Christians themselves do not seem to know exactly what it is that makes one a Christian to begin with.
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Hellisreal
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I can only speak for myself and from a Catholic POV. There are so many divisions in heterodox Christianity and even ones who claim to have the Christian label but are cults.
I know Muslims see this as a huge point for Islam for some reason.
I dont know why.
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BelFarfalla
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An you do? What a riot. :doh2:
What you show here is the arrogance and haughtiness of Islam thinking that only you know what others do and do not believe. :dts:
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BelFarfalla
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I agree. There are about 2.4 Christians in this world. Of these less then 25% are protestants who seem to have a hard time deciding what they believe. Muslims love to paint all of Christianity by these minority. They do it because it suits their purpose.
I can only speak for myself and from a Catholic POV. There are so many divisions in heterodox Christianity and even ones who claim to have the Christian label but are cults.
I know Muslims see this as a huge point for Islam for some reason.
I dont know why.
I think that most protestants do not realize the unity of the vast majority of Christianity as they do not realize that they are in the minority… So this ‘talking point’ is one that works for Muslims when they try to convert Protestants.
I have spoken to hundreds of Muslims, there are few points that all of them agree on. They have no central authority, only a Qur’an and Hadiths that each Muslim interpret for him/herself.
This is much like the protestants. I have no doubt that if one were to take a survey of Muslims, several hundred separate lines of beliefs would emerge.
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Myrrh23
Guest
Hey!
This is what I would call “a Fair-Weather Friend”. It’s like she’s walking next to Jesus and calling Him the Son of God with her fingers crossed behind her back. I feel sad for her, because my Christian faith means so much to me that I wouldn’t retreat from calling Jesus what He really is! I hope she realizes what a starkly sad mistake she’s making.
Myrrh :juggle:
This is what I would call “a Fair-Weather Friend”. It’s like she’s walking next to Jesus and calling Him the Son of God with her fingers crossed behind her back. I feel sad for her, because my Christian faith means so much to me that I wouldn’t retreat from calling Jesus what He really is! I hope she realizes what a starkly sad mistake she’s making.
Myrrh :juggle:
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Publisher
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From many of the posts here…some of them very “un-christian” in flavor…I can appreciate this priests decision.
As a Friend, I hold to my right to follow the Light as I am led by the Light…“relativism”…perhaps…I have read that word more since being on CAF in a matter of weeks than the rest of my 52 years.
If the two greatest commandments are “Love God…and love your neighbor as yourselves…” and if all other laws are hinged and can be understood by these two…we have a long way to go…and this one single priests choice of seeking the Eternal through the ministry of Islam…is nothing but a drop in the bucket concerning the work that needs to be done here…IMO
signed a Quaker Heretic
As a Friend, I hold to my right to follow the Light as I am led by the Light…“relativism”…perhaps…I have read that word more since being on CAF in a matter of weeks than the rest of my 52 years.
If the two greatest commandments are “Love God…and love your neighbor as yourselves…” and if all other laws are hinged and can be understood by these two…we have a long way to go…and this one single priests choice of seeking the Eternal through the ministry of Islam…is nothing but a drop in the bucket concerning the work that needs to be done here…IMO
signed a Quaker Heretic
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BelFarfalla
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According to the articles I’ve read she believes that Jesus is the son of God in the same sense that we are all the children of God. She does not believe that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. These are Islamic beliefs.
She does however believe that Jesus died on the Cross. This is a Christian belief that is denied by Islam.
This woman is confused.
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estesbob
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Evidently Muslims dont what makes one a Muslim either as they accepted an Episcoplean Priest into their Moque.
BTW-please dont judge all Chrisians by the actions of the Episcopleans. The Catholic Church would have excommunicated a Priest who espoused to be a Muslim in a heartbeat.
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estesbob
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Those who beleive in nothing will be beliefve in anything-even that it is possible to be an Episcopal Muslim.
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Hellisreal
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Now, if only she thought Jesus died on a torture stake and not a Cross, she would actually be a JW and not even realize it.
I think she may get some of their magazines on her doorstep soon…
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tm30
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Assuming she had to be in SOME sort of seminary formation to become an Episcopal priest, the “confused” excuse doesn’t play. She’s either “mentally ill” or “in the clutches of Satan”.
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tm30
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Jesus pulled no punches when it came to condemning heretics and hypocrites. John the Baptist called the Pharisees a “brood of vipers” himself. This woman is spitting in the face of Christ with her “dual-citizenship” of Christianity and Islam. She deserves no sympathy.
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Hellisreal
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I think Elaine Pagels who is Gnostic was an Episcopalian too at one time.
There must be something in their holy water.
There must be something in their holy water.
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tm30
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If I facilitate or give tacit approval to my neighbor’s heresy, that’s love? This isn’t just your average neighbor who might be Islamic or might be wavering in Christianity. This is an ordained minister who influences hundreds of other souls just by opening her mouth and speaking. Love is not remaining silent while souls are led astray. Love doesn’t keep Truth in the darkness - it illuminates it for all to see. Enough with this relativism. It’s poison.
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