I am bothered by why some Baptists...

[blackstone]

I was bothered by what seemed to be (on this forum) of a lot of Baptist converting to Catholic. But then I remembered what a former pastor had said, "Not every church that has the name Baptist attached to it is a true Baptist Church and not everyone that calls themselfs Baptist are true Baptist.
Not many years ago the Gallup Co took a poll of religions and the poll suggested that eighty five percent of the people in the United States were Christians. Many years back when the main source of entertainment in the home was the radio there was a radio preacher that said that of all the people that go to church on a regular basis less than twenty five percent are true christians.
I would therefore presume that these Baptist where not rooted and grounded in the teaching of the baptist church and that they had serious doubt about their salvation.
So lets take the eazy way out. Join the church that says you are born again by baptism, or that you are saved because you belong to the Catholic church and you can’t be saved by going to any other or that to have a relationship with Jesus Christ you must eat his flesh and drink his blood ( read 1 Cor.3: 16) the Spirit of God dwelleth in you) then you can hope that all your doubt will go away.

 

[E.E.N.S]

blackstone:

So lets take the eazy way out. Join the church that says you are born again by baptism, or that you are saved because you belong to the Catholic church and you can’t be saved by going to any other or that to have a relationship with Jesus Christ you must eat his flesh and drink his blood ( read 1 Cor.3: 16) the Spirit of God dwelleth in you) then you can hope that all your doubt will go away.

Sweet! I didn’t know that I was automatically saved just by being Catholic! lol.

And what does 1 Cor. 3:16 have anything to do with John 6? (I am assuming here that you somehow think that this disproves the Catholic teaching on the Eucharist?!) Of course these people would have the Spirit of God within them, they were Christians and they were receiving Christ, [Body, Blood, Soul and divinity] in the Eucharist. (And of course, saying the Spirit of God is within you doesn’t necessarily say anything directly regarding the Eucharist, nor does it mean that you will necessarily be saved, for even Paul (who obviously had the Spirit of God within him) worried about his own salvation (cf. “…lest I have run in vain…”).

 

[shannin]

E.E.N.S.:

Sweet! I didn’t know that I was automatically saved just by being Catholic! lol.

Neither did I.

 

[deb1]

blackstone:

I was bothered by what seemed to be (on this forum) of a lot of Baptist converting to Catholic. But then I remembered what a former pastor had said, "Not every church that has the name Baptist attached to it is a true Baptist Church and not everyone that calls themselfs Baptist are true Baptist.
.

So, if a Baptist becomes Catholic it is your opinion that the reason is because the former baptist didn’t belong to a strong enough church? I also didn’t realize that a lot of Baptist were becoming Catholic. Pretty cool.

 

[deb1]

blackstone:

Not many years ago the Gallup Co took a poll of religions and the poll suggested that eighty five percent of the people in the United States were Christians. Many years back when the main source of entertainment in the home was the radio there was a radio preacher that said that of all the people that go to church on a regular basis less than twenty five percent are true christians.
.

Why do you trust a pastor who is making up a figure off the top of his head over the gallup poll? What is your criteria for a CHristian?

 

[RCCDefender]

First off, if you think it’s easier to be Catholic then you are dead wrong. The “Reformers” took the easy way out by leaving the Church in the first place.

Secondly, the Catholic Church doesn’t rebaptize people who have a valid baptism, which most protestants do have.

Thirdly, the Catholic Curch doesn’t believe “once saved always saved.” The Bible says we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling. If a Catholic dies in a state of mortal sin the he is in big trouble…

Fourth, read 1 corinthians 3:11-17. You “will be saved, but only as through fire.” You won’t be saved by hellfire, there is no release from there. There isn’t fire in heaven. so, that puts an interesting spin on the Catholics’ “silly notion” of purgatory, doesn’t it?

Fifth, read John chapter 6. It seems kind of odd that Jesus would let all those people (that he came into the world to save) just walk away if his flesh was not true food and his blood was not true drink. Even the twelve didn’t understand, but they stayed with him on faith because they knew he had “the words of eternal life.”

 

[mercygate]

blackstone:

I would therefore presume that these Baptist where not rooted and grounded in the teaching of the baptist church and that they had serious doubt about their salvation.

Wouldn’t this be odd for a Baptist? If you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you are secure forever. Nothing can take away your salvation. How could a Baptist not “know” he is irrevocably saved?

So lets take the eazy way out. Join the church that says you are born again by baptism,

Actually, it is Jesus Christ who said that (Jn 3)

or that you are saved because you belong to the Catholic church

The Catholic Church does not teach that by belonging to the Catholic Church you are automatically saved.

and you can’t be saved by going to any other

This is not specifically the teaching of the Church either.

or that to have a relationship with Jesus Christ you must eat his flesh and drink his blood

Again, your quarrel is not with the Catholic Church, it is with Jesus Christ (Jn 6)

( read 1 Cor.3: 16) the Spirit of God dwelleth in you) then you can hope that all your doubt will go away.

Doubt? You have some odd ideas about what you think is Catholic teaching. Really. You do. Very odd indeed.

In my experience, Baptists who come into the Church do so because their deep grounding in Scripture forces them to confront the serious problems inherent in the “faith alone/scripture alone” dyad. They find the Catholic faith to be deeper and broader, linking Scripture, Tradition, spirituality, history, and philosophy into a unified whole that is consistent and credible.

 

[catsrus]

So lets take the eazy way out. Join the church that says you are born again by baptism, or that you are saved because you belong to the Catholic church and you can’t be saved by going to any other

Anyone who says that The Catholic Church is “the easy way out” obviously knows absolutely nothing about Catholicism.

 

[Mickey]

blackstone:

I would therefore presume that these Baptist where not rooted and grounded in the teaching of the baptist church

My best friend was born and raised brethren and joined a very strong baptist church which is firmly rooted and grounded in the teaching of the baptist “tradition”. He is now in the process of converting to Catholicism.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Let me take a quick second to address these misconceptions…

blackstone:

So lets take the eazy way out…

Easy way out!!! There is no easy way out! Christ said that if we wish to enter into eternal life that we must pick up our crosses and follow in his footsteps (cf. Matt. 16:24; Mark 8:34; Luke 14:27), and that we must keep the commandments (cf. Matt 19:17)…the Catholic Church teaches just that - any church teaching otherwise (like “once saved, always saved” or “faith alone”) is teaching the “easy way out” which is that very same broad road that Christ said is “…easy and leads to eternal damnation.” (Matt 7:13)

blackstone:

Join the church that says you are born again by baptism,.

Christ tells us that we must be born again (John 3:3,7) [baptised] in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,(Matt 28:19) and of water and the spirit.

blackstone:

or that you are saved because you belong to the Catholic church .

The Church doesn’t teach that becoming Catholic “saves” you. Though we must be members of Christ’s Body to get to heaven, because it is only through Him that we will get to the Father in heaven. But this can be an entire thread all of it’s own.

blackstone:

and you can’t be saved by going to any other church.

This is incorrect. The Church definately does not teach that anyone who is not a professed Catholic is going to hell. (Read the CCC 839-848)

blackstone:

or that to have a relationship with Jesus Christ you must eat his flesh and drink his blood .

This is not to have a “relationship” with Him, per se, but Christ tells us very emphatically that unless we eat His flesh and drink His blood we will not have life within us…He did NOT mean this symbolically, else why did countless thousands leave Him at this point? (cf. John 6:66)

( read 1 Cor.3: 16) the Spirit of God dwelleth in you) .

I addressed this in post #2.

blackstone:

then you can hope that all your doubt will go away.

Hope yes. All doubt go away? I don’t think so, and neither did St. Paul. (Presumption?) Just don’t doubt in God.

 

[E.E.N.S]

(Read the CCC 839-848)

I just thought that I would post these here for all those who do not have a Catechism.

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334

(cont’d)

 

[E.E.N.S]

**“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

**[846](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/846.htm’) How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

****[848](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/848.htm’) "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

blackstone:

I was bothered by what seemed to be (on this forum) of a lot of Baptist converting to Catholic. But then I remembered what a former pastor had said, "Not every church that has the name Baptist attached to it is a true Baptist Church and not everyone that calls themselfs Baptist are true Baptist.
Not many years ago the Gallup Co took a poll of religions and the poll suggested that eighty five percent of the people in the United States were Christians. Many years back when the main source of entertainment in the home was the radio there was a radio preacher that said that of all the people that go to church on a regular basis less than twenty five percent are true christians.
I would therefore presume that these Baptist where not rooted and grounded in the teaching of the baptist church and that they had serious doubt about their salvation.
So lets take the eazy way out. Join the church that says you are born again by baptism, or that you are saved because you belong to the Catholic church and you can’t be saved by going to any other or that to have a relationship with Jesus Christ you must eat his flesh and drink his blood ( read 1 Cor.3: 16) the Spirit of God dwelleth in you) then you can hope that all your doubt will go away.

Hi blackstone!

You seem to hold a few misconceptions about Catholicism. Perhaps the Baptists who became Catholic came to find out what the Church actually teaches and came to recognize that what they had learned about Catholicism from other Baptists was wrong.

Just a thought.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[VociMike]

Right, confessing your sins (all your sins) to a priest is the easy way out. Disbelieving in OSAS is the easy way out. Believing that deliberately missing Mass for no legitimate reason is a mortal sin is the easy way out. Yeah, that’s why I’m a Catholic.

 

[Elliott]

Cut him some slack. His intentions are good. He is trying to convert us to the one true church…the baptist church.

 

[deb1]

Normally, Baptist argue the exact opposite. That Catholics make religion to difficult by adding a bunch of rules. Blackstone is now telling us that we have it too easy.Would all you denominations get together on why we are going to hell? I’d like to keep the reasons for my eternal damnation straight.

Although I am teasing you Blackstone, I hope that you will come back and respond to the thread that you started.

 

[DJgang]

FYI - here in the south…

Usually everyone considers themselves “Baptist” even if they are not a member of any church and possibly haven’t even been Baptized

 

[rayne89]

Maybe you should chat with Steve Ray.

catholic-convert.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=66

Stephen K. Ray was raised in a devout, loving Baptist family. His father was a deacon and led Bible studies. Steve himself was very involved in the Baptist Church as a teacher of Biblical studies, and he lectured on a wide range of topics. When a best friend, an Evangelical pastor, converted to the Catholic Church, Steve and his wife Janet decided to investigate the claims of the Catholic Church, taking a thrilling journey back in time that would eventually change their lives forever. After hundreds of hours studying the Bible and the writings of the early Church, they were convinced that the Roman Catholic Church was the Church founded by Christ, and they were recieved into the Church on Pentecost Sunday in 1994.

In this book, with no rancor toward his Evangelical roots, Ray shares with the reader their exhilarating discoveries. He traces their initial hostility toward the Catholic Church, their passionate research and the discovery of the historical Church, quitely waiting to be rediscovered. He convincingly lays out the issues that carried them over the “uncrossable chasm” info the Catholic Church. Thoroughly documented with over 400 footnotes, Crossing the Tiber contains an extensive compilation of biblical and patristic quotations and commentary on the issues of Baptism and the Eucharist, as well as a thorough analysis of Sola Scriptura and Tradition.

Ray takes you back to the first four centuries of the Church to discover the early Church-was it like today’s Protestantism in theology and practice, or was it Catholic? Discover the unbiblical and unhistorical nature of the “Bible Only” argument. Discover the uniform consistency of the Catholic teaching on Baptism and the Eucharist from Scriptures and the Church Fathers. Take a delightful journey with Steve and Janet Ray as they “cross the Tiber” to join the throngs who have rejoiced in the beauty of the Catholic Church for over two thousand years.

catholic-convert.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54

 

[scylla]

It seems to be a common response that you are mis-understood in your understanding of the Catholic faith, which seems to be why you disagree with it.

If you are going to disagree with the Catholic Church then feel free to ask what we really believe and then see if you disagree with it. We are always happy to answer questions, even if it is stuff like “do Catholics believe in the Bible?” and stuff like that.

Many Baptists come to the Catholic Church after much study, what leads them to the Church is their love of Jesus and their search for truth.

So feel free to study the Catholic Church and see if you do disagree with what the Church really teaches.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[blackstone]

Let me just say that I personally do not know of any Baptists that have converted to Catholic. In my study of religions I find no need to.(convert that is). Being a Baptist is the closes think to being in a first cenutary church.