I am Calling For a Revision of The Catechism

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YinYangMom:
And it is BECAUSE of all the experts, expertise, knowledge the Holy See possesses about other religions that I believe what they say about Islam is true.

Why don’t you?
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Because the Holy See is not telling the whole TRUTH.

Come on now, we all know, including the Holy See, that Islam’s god is not the Judeo-Christian God. Yet, the Catechism affirms it.
 
“Amen I say to you, Simon son of Jonah… You are Kepha, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall never prevail against it. I give you the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. Whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” [Matt. 16:17-20]

We would need to change not only the Catechism but the Gospel as well…

In Christ,
Rand
 
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USCatholic:
Because the Holy See is not telling the whole TRUTH.

Come on now, we all know, including the Holy See, that Islam’s god is not the Judeo-Christian God. Yet, the Catechism affirms it.
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I followed that thread and I didn’t see you prove anything.
 
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USCatholic:
Saying things about other religions is NOT a Church Doctrine.

So why the call to change the catechism?

The Holy See opined about Islam, and it opinion and teaching is WRONG.

Again, they ‘opined’ based on expertise and knowledge THEY possess (yours is better and more expansive, perhaps???)

And yes, the Church did it out of political correctness.

Wrong. The church never does things out of PC

She doesn’t want to make millions of Muslims angry. And you know what the Muslims can do when they are angry.

That is differerent from the Church’s internal affairs. Women, gays, etc, will not blow themselves up in St. Peter’s Square.

You do reside in the U.S., don’t you??? Of COURSE women, gays, etc. would blow themselves up and do other horrendous things in St. Peter’s Square if they believed it would get them what they want. They just know that’s not the way to affect change…they are using lawsuits and political pressure as their weapons instead of bombs and guns.
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USCatholic:
She doesn’t want to make millions of Muslims angry. And you know what the Muslims can do when they are angry.

That is differerent from the Church’s internal affairs. Women, gays, etc, will not blow themselves up in St. Peter’s Square.
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The true colors are revealed at last. Some Muslims have behave barbarically, as have some Christians. It is as biggoted to believe all or most Mulsims are suicide bombers as it is to believe all or most Christians are crusaders.

When you get a degree in theology, and become a priest and then a bishop and have some pastoral experience, I will take your opinions about the Catechism more seriously. Until then, I will listen to the sound advise of good pastors, and pray for peace, unity and charity in the Church.
 
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USCatholic:
It is out of LOVE for the Holy See that I am writing.

I do not want the Holy See to err, especially when it comes to Islam.

As for Church’s current doctrines, moral teachings, etc., I am totally submitted to Her.
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You CANNOT be TOTALLY submitted to Her (the Church) if you presume to say the Holy See is wrong about a subject you know far less about than the Holy See does.
 
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USCatholic:
Because the Holy See is not telling the whole TRUTH.

Come on now, we all know, including the Holy See, that Islam’s god is not the Judeo-Christian God. Yet, the Catechism affirms it.
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It is the same God, just a different understanding of Him. Allah is simply the Arabic word for God, as Dios is Spanish, Deus in Latin, Kyrie in Greek, Eli in Aramaic, ect. If you are basing your statement of their rejection of the Trinity, then the Jews must also worship a different God because they do the same.

In Christ,
Rand
 
Swiss Guard said:
You never gave me an example of where the Church has erred in the past on faith and morals. I’m still waiting for an answer.
If you believe the Church has erred you are no longer Catholic. You might as well start your own church Pope Ludicrous I. Hey, there’s enough nutjobs in the world to get a decent following.
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OK, where did I say that the Chruch erred of Faith and morals?

Please, show my quote.

What I meant is about, for example: the Jews, correcting the Catechism (or explaining it better, if you will), etc… somethings like that.

The point it: somethings were not correct and the Church corrected it.

I am asking Her to do the same thing concerning the paragraph about Islam.

The Catechism has been amended and it can be re-amended .

It is not the Word of God, it is a man-made text. Although it is inspired, it is not infallible, especially when it comes to teachings about other religions.

And always remember, IT HAS BEEN AMENDED.
 
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USCatholic:
The Holy See is made out of Humans, and Humans make mistakes, even if they are guided by the Holy Spirit
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Um, could that possibly include you?
I am certain that the Holy See is wrong and knows about it, concerning the teaching about Islam, in this case, because of all the experts, the expertise, the knowledge, the Holy See possesses about all subjects, especially other religions.
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Then what you are suggesting is not that the Holy See made a mistake but rather made an intentionally misleading claim in the Catechism. That, I believe, is dangerous ground.

Peace

Tim
 
Where does this absolute hate of Muslims come from??? I bet you’ve never even met a Muslim in real life, only talked to a few on here…who, by the way, have been extrememly patient and kind to you. Something you have not returned. I think that if nothing else proves that all Muslims are not violent heathens. You are the one with violent words, not them.

In Christ,
Rand
 
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USCatholic:
Because the Holy See is not telling the whole TRUTH.

Come on now, we all know, including the Holy See, that Islam’s god is not the Judeo-Christian God. Yet, the Catechism affirms it.
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You, totally submitted to Her (the Church), are claiming the Holy See is not telling the people the whole Truth.

We all know that the Holy See is guided by the Holy Spirit therefore when the Holy See puts in the Catechism the statement that Islam’s god is the Judeo-Christian God then that’s what we believe.

On what expansive knowledge (beyond that of the Holy See’s) do you know Islam’s god is not the Judeo-Christian God?
 
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USCatholic:
I am calling for a revision of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

It has been corrected before, and it can be amended again, again and again.

If the Holy See wants to be Honest, Truthful, and Faithful to the message of Jesus-Christ, it must correct all the discrepencies found in its Official Teaching, beginning with that infamous paragraph about Islam.

Other corrections must be made, in my opinion, concerning other subjects that I will write about later.

The Holy See MUST stop being politically correct. I am sick and tired of it. It is now everywhere in our world.

The last place I expected it to be is in my Holy Catholic Church. I am very sad.

I thought my Church would take God seriously, and place Him above all humans, obeying Him and Trusting Him. I guess NOT.

Can’t we be Honest, for God’s sake, regardless of the consequences?

If God is with us, who can be against us?
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In other words you know better than JP II and Ratzinger? Come now, your not really that arrogant are you. Submit.
 
Rand Al'Thor:
It is the same God, just a different understanding of Him. Allah is simply the Arabic word for God, as Dios is Spanish, Deus in Latin, Kyrie in Greek, Eli in Aramaic, ect. If you are basing your statement of their rejection of the Trinity, then the Jews must also worship a different God because they do the same.

In Christ,
Rand
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I repeat this statement, especially the last sentance.
 
Rand Al'Thor:
It is the same God, just a different understanding of Him. Allah is simply the Arabic word for God, as Dios is Spanish, Deus in Latin, Kyrie in Greek, Eli in Aramaic, ect. If you are basing your statement of their rejection of the Trinity, then the Jews must also worship a different God because they do the same.

In Christ,
Rand
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The Jews have our same God, you know the story about the Origins and the New Testament, right?

As for the god of Islam: there is a difference bewteen it and the God of the Jews (if you will) and the God of the Christians (I seperated them for you!! Although the Jews and Christians worship the same God, but the Jews stopped short of following the fulness of the Revelation).

I will prove to everybody the difference between the god of Islam and the Judeo-Christian God. That is not the subject of this thread.
 
Rand Al'Thor:
Where does this absolute hate of Muslims come from??? I bet you’ve never even met a Muslim in real life, only talked to a few on here…who, by the way, have been extrememly patient and kind to you. Something you have not returned. I think that if nothing else proves that all Muslims are not violent heathens. You are the one with violent words, not them.

In Christ,
Rand
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Hatred? Is calling for the TRUTH, hate?

Is calling to correct the OFFICIAL teaching of the Church, hate?

My concern is more about the Church than about Islam.

Besides, I said that other things need to be corrected too. I will write later about them.
 
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USCatholic:
OK, where did I say that the Chruch erred of Faith and morals?

Please, show my quote.
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Here it is.
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USCatholic:
I am calling for a revision of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Other corrections must be made, in my opinion, concerning other subjects that I will write about later.

I thought my Church would take God seriously, and place Him above all humans, obeying Him and Trusting Him. I guess NOT.
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Calling for a revision of the Catechism, saying there are other errors and claiming the Church is teaching human doctrine rather than Divine is saying the Church errs in faith and morals. You have made Christ a liar.
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USCatholic:
What I meant is about, for example: the Jews, correcting the Catechism (or explaining it better, if you will), etc… somethings like that.
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You didn’t say the Church needs to explain her teaching better, you said the Church needs to change her teaching. You can’t lie your way out of this as your posts betray you.
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USCatholic:
The point it: somethings were not correct and the Church corrected it.
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I ask you one more time what has the Church erred on regarding faith and morals? If you can’t answer the question, stop making this ridiculous claim.
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USCatholic:
I am asking Her to do the same thing concerning the paragraph about Islam.
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No, you’re telling the Church to endorse your opinion of Islam.
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USCatholic:
The Catechism has been amended and it can be re-amended .

It is not the Word of God, it is a man-made text. Although it is inspired, it is not infallible, especially when it comes to teachings about other religions.

And always remember, IT HAS BEEN AMENDED.
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The Catechism has been amended to reflect a new insight into her doctrine or for a change in discipline. It has not been amended because it taught error.
You claim that the Catechism is inspired by the Holy Spirit but it’s not infallible. You are saying that the Holy Spirit can err and in fact has lied to the Church. This is blasphemy!
I suggest you use the brain God gave you before you go making more blasphemous statements about the Holy Spirit! Going to confession wouldn’t hurt either.
 
Hi US,

The authors of the Catechism did not pick its contents out of thin air. Its contents are based on solid doctrine taken from authoritative documents. As for the teaching on Muslims, it derives from a document of the Second Vatican Council on relations with non-Christian religions called Nostra Aetate. Here are the pertinent paragraphs :
  1. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the
    one God, living and subsisting in Himself, merciful and all-powerful,
    the Creator of heaven and earth (5), who has spoken to men; they take
    pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as
    Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes great pleasure in linking
    itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as
    God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin
    mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition,
    they await the day of judgement when God will render their deserts to
    all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value
    the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving
    and fasting.
Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities
have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this Sacred Synod urges
all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding
and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all
mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and
freedom.
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Additionally, the Catechism has been approed and promulgated by John Paul II. It represents the true teaching of the Catholic Church, and therefore could not be replaced.

I invite you to espouse the mind of the Church

Verbum
 
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USCatholic:
I will prove to everybody the difference between the god of Islam and the Judeo-Christian God. That is not the subject of this thread.
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Please do. I started a thread on this and have been waiting for just such a “proof.”
 
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YinYangMom:
You, totally submitted to Her (the Church), are claiming the Holy See is not telling the people the whole Truth.

We all know that the Holy See is guided by the Holy Spirit therefore when the Holy See puts in the Catechism the statement that Islam’s god is the Judeo-Christian God then that’s what we believe.

On what expansive knowledge (beyond that of the Holy See’s) do you know Islam’s god is not the Judeo-Christian God?
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Ok, so if you’re saying that you believe that Islam’s god is same as Ours, then please go read my other thread “I will convert to Islam.”
 
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