I am confused by the Muslim View of Jews as Infidels

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Mjae

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I am confused by the Muslim contempt toward the Jews, and the labelling of them as Infidels. Unlike Christianity, Jews do not have a Trinitarian view of the God of Abraham. You would think Islam and Judaism would be very close, theologically speaking. At the risk of over-simplifying, it seems to me that the issue of a rift between the descendants of Israel and those of Ishmael is just so much propaganda to justify Mohammed’s irritation with the Jews for rejecting him as a prohet.

Please forgive me for not engaging in debate - I’m not any good at it - but I would be interested in seeing other people’s views on this.

rr
 
Mjae said:
I am confused by the Muslim contempt toward the Jews, and the labelling of them as Infidels. Unlike Christianity, Jews do not have a Trinitarian view of the God of Abraham. You would think Islam and Judaism would be very close, theologically speaking. At the risk of over-simplifying, it seems to me that the issue of a rift between the descendants of Israel and those of Ishmael is just so much propaganda to justify Mohammed’s irritation with the Jews for rejecting him as a prohet.

Please forgive me for not engaging in debate - I’m not any good at it - but I would be interested in seeing other people’s views on this.

rr
Click to expand...
Sura 9: Ultimatum (Bara’ah)-5. Once the Sacred Months are past,(and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make.If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful

.30. The Jews said, “Ezra is the son of GOD,” while the Christians said, “Jesus is the son of GOD!” These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past.GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated

Middle East Media Research Institute, “a textbook for 8th grade students explains why Jews and Christians were cursed by Allah and turned into apes and pigs. Quoting [the Quran’s] Surat Al-Maida [Sura 5], Verse 60, the lesson explains that Jews and Christians have sinned by accepting polytheism and therefore incurred Allah’s wrath. To punish them, Allah has turned them into apes and pigs.”
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35510

On the 13th of December 2002, Palestinian television used the occasion of the Muslim month of Ramadan to broadcast programs with a distinctly anti-Jewish theme, including a sermon in which Jews were called “the brothers of monkeys and pigs”.The sermon opened with: “Praised be Allah, who has cursed [the Jews], the brothers of monkeys and pigs, by a flow of curses that will go on until the Resurrection of the dead.”
factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000556.html

In the book the author describes the 3 territorial divisions of the world from the perspective of Islam.

House of war:The land of the non-believers (harbis), called the lands of war dar al-harb where infidels to be fought because they oppose the establishment of Islamic law in their lands. As enemies of Allah they are accorded no rights: they, themselves and their property becomes fair game (mubah) for all Muslims.

They can be taken as slaves, kidnapped for ransom, robbed, raped, maimed or killed with impunity. War is to be waged against them in order to Islamize their territory which, according to the beliefs of Islam, must be conquered for Allah. If they resist, Islamic law provides for the deportation or massacre of the men and the enslavement of women and children.

House of truce:The land of non-believers currently under truce which is in respite between wars dar al-hudna. In principle, a truce with non-believers must not last more than ten years, after which jihad should resume. There are only two circumstances that justify that a truce be engaged with infidels by the Islamic authority. The first circumstance is one is where the Muslims forces are too weak to vanquish the infidels and the truce will allow them to regroup and restrengthen and the second one is whereby infidel states pay a tribute to the Muslims or contribute by numerous services to the advancement of Islam.In other words the truce is authorized only if it helps improve the Muslim’s situation and weakens the infidels. Truce is not a natural condition
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dhimmi:_Jews_and_Christians_Under_Islam
 
“.30. The Jews said, “Ezra is the son of GOD,” while the Christians said, “Jesus is the son of GOD!” These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past.GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated”

Ezra who?
 
Mjae said:
“.30. The Jews said, “Ezra is the son of GOD,” while the Christians said, “Jesus is the son of GOD!” These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past.GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated”

Ezra who?
Click to expand...
The genealogy of Ezra traces his priesthood back to Aaron, brother of Moses. This was the accepted way of establishing the legality of one’s priestly office. He is also called a scribe, well-versed in the law of Moses, indicating Ezra’s dedication to the study of Torah, which he sought to make the basic rule of life in the restored community

Jewish tradition holds him in great honor; the Talmud even regards him as a second Moses, claiming that the Torah would have been given to Israel through Ezra had not Moses preceded him.
masjidtucson.org/publications/books/SP/2007/apr/page3.html
 
Greetings Mjae.

Islam doesn’t label the Jews as ‘infidels’ (I’m guessing the Qur’anic term you’re referring to is mushrikeen, meaning polytheists, as there is no exact equivalent classification in Islam), but as People of the Book, and thus monotheists.

It’s a common observation that theologically speaking Islam and Judaism are pretty much identical, but the Qur’an’s criticisms are not theologically based (as they are with Christians), but on their actions. Whereas the Christians are depicted as a people who have false beliefs, but are faithful and are close in affection to the Muslims, the Jews are depicted as having true beliefs, but not sticking to them. The excess legalism in following the law, when it’s the essence of the law that’s important; and their rejection and killing of the Prophets culminating in Jesus Christ (pbuh), are the two main objections the Qur’an makes to the Jews.

It’s also worth noting that likewise, the Jews (of Arabia) never had a problem with Islam theologically, infact most of them didn’t deny that Muhammad (pbuh) was a genuine Prophet, but they still rejected and opposed him anyway.

Peace.
 
Kadaveri said:
Greetings Mjae.

Islam doesn’t label the Jews as ‘infidels’ (I’m guessing the Qur’anic term you’re referring to is mushrikeen, meaning polytheists, as there is no exact equivalent classification in Islam), but as People of the Book, and thus monotheists.

It’s a common observation that theologically speaking Islam and Judaism are pretty much identical, but the Qur’an’s criticisms are not theologically based (as they are with Christians), but on their actions. Whereas the Christians are depicted as a people who have false beliefs, but are faithful and are close in affection to the Muslims, the Jews are depicted as having true beliefs, but not sticking to them. The excess legalism in following the law, when it’s the essence of the law that’s important; and their rejection and killing of the Prophets culminating in Jesus Christ (pbuh), are the two main objections the Qur’an makes to the Jews.

It’s also worth noting that likewise, the Jews (of Arabia) never had a problem with Islam theologically, infact most of them didn’t deny that Muhammad (pbuh) was a genuine Prophet, but they still rejected and opposed him anyway.

Peace.
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What do you have to support the assertion that the Jews of Arabia didn’t deny that Muhammad was a prophet? And I keep hearing about how Jews killed prophets? Which ones?
 
Valke2 said:
What do you have to support the assertion that the Jews of Arabia didn’t deny that Muhammad was a prophet? And I keep hearing about how Jews killed prophets? Which ones?
Click to expand...
Hi

I think it is not meant here physical assassination; either it is character assassination, or opposition of the ProphetsMessengers of GodAllahYHWH or rejection with enmity with the intention of killing, an attempted murder might be. The Jews tried to cover this up under the following verses:

“If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, ‘Let us follow other gods’ (gods you have not known) ‘and let us worship them,’ you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you” (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NIV).

“But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
“You may say to yourselves, ‘How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?’ If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him” (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NIV).

It is very unfortunate that the present Torah or the OTBible is neither the prestine secure and protected Word of GodAllahYHWH from his His mouth nor written by Moses, it is written and compiled by the scribes, so it has lost the natural balance in its teachings. The emphasis must have been on accepting the truthful ProphetsMessengers and supporting them but instead the emphasis of OTBible is on killing the false ProphetsMessengers as their hearts were hardened like stones, with the result that they tried to kill all the ProphetsMessenger to test if he was truthful or not, which on its outset was wrong.

One such example is of Jesus.

When JesusYeshuaIssa announced that he has been chosen by GodAllahYHWH to reform them and to revive the true teachings of Moses though he has brought no new teachings, the Jews depicting the same hardenened nature, instead of appreciating him and accepting him they became his enemies and conspired to kill him on Cross. It is for this that GodAllahYHWH ascribes to them the sentence “We (the Jews) have definitely killed Jesus s/o Mary”, describes their intention and desire or attitude, so it is virtual killing meant here, I think.

It is another matter that then Jesus was put on Cross and he suffered on it a lot, he became unconcious and was delivered from Cross in neardead postion, he was laid in a tomb for treatment and from near-dead position he obtained a virtual new life, so GodAllahYHWH saved his life miraculously and Jews did not succeed in their nefarious designs of killing Jesus on the Cross. From Galilee alongwith Mary Jesus went to India and died a natural and peaceful death there and is buried there in a tomb.
GodAllahYHWH has disclosed this in about 30 verses/places in Quran.
We come to the same conclusion if we make a deep study of the NTBible, in my opinion.

Anybody could differ with me , no comupulsion, but with sound reasons and arguments, please.

Thanks
 
Mjae said:
I am confused by the Muslim contempt toward the Jews, and the labelling of them as Infidels. Unlike Christianity, Jews do not have a Trinitarian view of the God of Abraham. You would think Islam and Judaism would be very close, theologically speaking. At the risk of over-simplifying, it seems to me that the issue of a rift between the descendants of Israel and those of Ishmael is just so much propaganda to justify Mohammed’s irritation with the Jews for rejecting him as a prohet.

Please forgive me for not engaging in debate - I’m not any good at it - but I would be interested in seeing other people’s views on this.

rr
Click to expand...
The very reason Muhammed has to be ‘justified’ as a new prophet is to suppose that the previous messengers failed somehow.

Moslems believe that Moses, Jesus, et al all came and taught Islam.

However, they blame the Jews and Christians for distorting this message.

They thus despise Jews and Christians as corruptors of the word of their god.
 
Montalban said:
The very reason Muhammed has to be ‘justified’ as a new prophet is to suppose that the previous messengers failed somehow.

Moslems believe that Moses, Jesus, et al all came and taught Islam.

However, they blame the Jews and Christians for distorting this message.

They thus despise Jews and Christians as corruptors of the word of their god.
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Hi

The Prophets never fail, it is their followers who fail and hence the message needs to be revived.

Thanks
 
The Koran says that the Jews are like donkeys!

62: 5 The likeness of those who were entrusted with the Taurat (Torah), but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is as the likeness of a donkey who carries huge burdens of books (but understands nothing from them). How bad is the example (or the likeness) of people who deny the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah. And Allah guides not the people who are Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers, disbelievers, etc.).

2:96 says that they are the greediest people…
And verily, you will find them (the Jews) the greediest of mankind for life and (even greedier) than those who - ascribe partners to Allah (and do not believe in Resurrection - Magians, pagans, and idolaters, etc.). Everyone of them wishes that he could be given a life of a thousand years. But the grant of such life will not save him even a little from (due) punishment. And Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

2:61 says that al-lah stamped wrtechedness upon them.
4:61 Says that they (and Christians) believe in idols
5:52 they are cursed.

Note: animal analogies are used a number of times
Sabbath breakers are said to be like monkeys
2: 65 And indeed you knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday). We said to them: “Be you monkeys, despised and rejected.”
2: 66 So We made this punishment an example to their own and to succeeding generations and a lesson to those who are Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2).

5:93 the Jews are cursed
5:51 don’t take a Jew as a friend
5:53 Jews (and Christians) are losers
5:57 Don’t choose Jews, (or Christians, or disbelievers) as guardians
5:59 Jews (and Christians) are evil-doers
5:63 Rabbis do evil
 
Montalban said:
The Koran says that the Jews are like donkeys!

62: 5 The likeness of those who were entrusted with the Taurat (Torah), but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is as the likeness of a donkey who carries huge burdens of books (but understands nothing from them). How bad is the example (or the likeness) of people who deny the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah. And Allah guides not the people who are Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers, disbelievers, etc.).

2:96 says that they are the greediest people…
And verily, you will find them (the Jews) the greediest of mankind for life and (even greedier) than those who - ascribe partners to Allah (and do not believe in Resurrection - Magians, pagans, and idolaters, etc.). Everyone of them wishes that he could be given a life of a thousand years. But the grant of such life will not save him even a little from (due) punishment. And Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

2:61 says that al-lah stamped wrtechedness upon them.
4:61 Says that they (and Christians) believe in idols
5:52 they are cursed.

Note: animal analogies are used a number of times
Sabbath breakers are said to be like monkeys
2: 65 And indeed you knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday). We said to them: “Be you monkeys, despised and rejected.”
2: 66 So We made this punishment an example to their own and to succeeding generations and a lesson to those who are Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2).

5:93 the Jews are cursed
5:51 don’t take a Jew as a friend
5:53 Jews (and Christians) are losers
5:57 Don’t choose Jews, (or Christians, or disbelievers) as guardians
5:59 Jews (and Christians) are evil-doers
5:63 Rabbis do evil
Click to expand...
Yes, i have read that.
I cant understand why God would teach to hate…
Thank goodness the bible God does not teach such things.
 
dolphinlove said:
Yes, i have read that.
I cant understand why God would teach to hate…
Thank goodness the bible God does not teach such things.
Click to expand...
I can’t wait to see the apology that says they’re called “apes” in some translations, and not monkeys! 😃
 
Montalban said:
The Koran says that the Jews are like donkeys!

62: 5 The likeness of those who were entrusted with the Taurat (Torah), but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is as the likeness of a donkey who carries huge burdens of books (but understands nothing from them). How bad is the example (or the likeness) of people who deny the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah. And Allah guides not the people who are Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers, disbelievers, etc.).

2:96 says that they are the greediest people…
And verily, you will find them (the Jews) the greediest of mankind for life and (even greedier) than those who - ascribe partners to Allah (and do not believe in Resurrection - Magians, pagans, and idolaters, etc.). Everyone of them wishes that he could be given a life of a thousand years. But the grant of such life will not save him even a little from (due) punishment. And Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

2:61 says that al-lah stamped wrtechedness upon them.
4:61 Says that they (and Christians) believe in idols
5:52 they are cursed.

Note: animal analogies are used a number of times
Sabbath breakers are said to be like monkeys
2: 65 And indeed you knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday). We said to them: “Be you monkeys, despised and rejected.”
2: 66 So We made this punishment an example to their own and to succeeding generations and a lesson to those who are Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2).

5:93 the Jews are cursed
5:51 don’t take a Jew as a friend
5:53 Jews (and Christians) are losers
5:57 Don’t choose Jews, (or Christians, or disbelievers) as guardians
5:59 Jews (and Christians) are evil-doers
5:63 Rabbis do evil
Click to expand...
Hi

I think you won’t mind if I quote what Jesus said about the Jewish clergy?

For an example Jesus said that he won’t show any sign to the adulterous Jews except Sign of Jonah. This is just one. Is it very respectful for the Jews?

Thanks
Thanks
 
It goes back to the early days of Islam when Muhammed was in the Arab City of Yathrib (now Medina). Initially welcomed by the town, including the Jews, Muhammed even prayed toward Jerusalem. But after the sizeable Jewish population of Yathrib rejected Mohammed as a prophet of Judaism and refused to support him in his wars and raids against other Arabs he turned on the Jews and never forgave them for oppossing him…THAT is the source of the malicious attitude Islam has toward Jews.
 
Yerusalyim said:
It goes back to the early days of Islam when Muhammed was in the Arab City of Yathrib (now Medina). Initially welcomed by the town, including the Jews, Muhammed even prayed toward Jerusalem. But after the sizeable Jewish population of Yathrib rejected Mohammed as a prophet of Judaism and refused to support him in his wars and raids against other Arabs he turned on the Jews and never forgave them for oppossing him…THAT is the source of the malicious attitude Islam has toward Jews.
Click to expand...
Hi

I think Muhammad accomplished the work started by Jesus, when Jesus said that the blood of righteous people from Abel to Zachariah would come on the Jews. Jesus also said that the “adulterous” Jews would be shown the sign of Jonah, so Muhammad did what Jesus had started but could not accomplish.

Thanks
 
Yerusalyim said:
It goes back to the early days of Islam when Muhammed was in the Arab City of Yathrib (now Medina). Initially welcomed by the town, including the Jews, Muhammed even prayed toward Jerusalem. But after the sizeable Jewish population of Yathrib rejected Mohammed as a prophet of Judaism and refused to support him in his wars and raids against other Arabs he turned on the Jews and never forgave them for oppossing him…THAT is the source of the malicious attitude Islam has toward Jews.
Click to expand...
Initially he had his followers pray towards Jerusalem, as a means of drawing in Jewish followers.

This didn’t happen like he wished so he had his followers turn about and face back towards Mecca - thus sticking their rears up in the air towards the Jews
 
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