I am Confused on Mary

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Pathway2

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Observing the importance of Mary presented into the scriptures. It makes me question, why does she at times get dismissed by some protestant denominations. It is even clear she is our mother in the gospel according to John 19:27

"When Jesus saw His mother and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, here is your son.” Then He said to the disciple, “Here is your mother.”

On my reading sessions, I saw that Mary and Peter (e.g Mary as a spiritual Mother, Peter as the first pope) have sense of importance when I read the scriptures.
 
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The answer is that schismatics must justify their schism. The Catholic Church must be wrong, not just about some things, but about most things.
 
but isn’t the reason of the reformation to reform the True Church.
 
Reforms happened at many points in time. When people grew cold and lax-- that was generally the time God would send some of the greatest saints to help set things right.

Major leaders of the Reformation, for example, like Luther and Calvin, held Mary in esteem. But once you start rejecting the concept of the intercession of saints-- it’s just a matter of time before Mary gets demoted to the level of Minor Biblical Characters, and people do their best to avoid her except around Christmas. 🙂

Which is very non-historical-- Mary was one of the most central people in the early Christian community. You have her imagery surviving from the 2nd and 3rd centuries. She’s honored as a protectress from the 5th century, and enthroned as a queen from the 6th century. She was recognized as the New Eve by Justin Martyr (sometime between 155-167) and formally given the title of Mother of God at the Council of Ephesus in AD 431.

But when you start to pick and choose, there’s no guarantee that you’re not throwing out things that are useful and correct and valid and valuable. Which is why the Church would have disintegrated long ago if it wasn’t for the Holy Spirit to protect it from itself. 😛

As the anecdote goes-- Napoleon threatened to crush the Church. And Cardinal Consalvi answered, “If we, the clergy, have failed to destroy the Church over the last 1800 years, what makes you think you will succeed?” 😛
 
thank you, know any good verse that promote the intersession of the saints.
 
thank you, know any good verse that promote the intersession of the saints.

(I repeated this just in case you didn’t get the first one)
 
Some of the reformers, like Luther, may have originally dreamed of reforming the Catholic Church. That did not last very long, because of novel and differing theologies. The Counter-reformation was the reformation of the Catholic Church.
 
Well, let’s see. We can see from early Christian inscriptions that they believed in the intercession of the saints in heaven. You have things like:
“Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy” (Cyprian of Carthage - Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 253]).
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“Atticus, sleep in peace, secure in your safety, and pray anxiously for our sins” (funerary inscription near St. Sabina’s in Rome [A.D. 300]).
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and
“Pray for your parents, Matronata Matrona. She lived one year, fifty-two days” (funerary inscription near St. Sabina’s in Rome [A.D. 300])
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and
“Mother of God, [listen to] my petitions; do not disregard us in adversity, but rescue us from danger” (Rylands Papyrus 3 [A.D. 350]).
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So, those were examples of how early Christians believed in the intercession of the saints, pre-dating the finalization of the Biblical canon.

Looking at the Biblical canon itself-- you have the very famous quote from James about “the prayers of a righteous man availeth much”. Who is more righteous than the people who are in God’s presence in heaven? If you look at Revelation, it says–
8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.
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What are they doing with the prayers of God’s people? Are they praying with people? Are they praying for people? Are they doing both?

You have the entire episode of the Wedding at Cana. Mary says to Jesus, “They have no wine”, and he says, “What is it to us? My time hasn’t come yet.” And she says, “Do whatever he tells you.” And he performs the miracle-- because Mary always aligns herself with God’s will. But would the miracle have been performed in the absence of her intercession?

We’re supposed to pray for each other-- the Bible is full of countless verses about praying for each other. And God is the God of the living, not the dead. So is death sufficient to separate people enough so that they say, “Well, I’m done here. You guys can keep on doing what you’re doing. I’m off to heaven. You can tell me what I missed when you catch up.” 😛 Or is the Body of Christ still the Body of Christ, regardless of where its members happen to exist, either inside of time or inside of eternity?
 
Knowing the Church teachings about Mary, it becomes pretty evident how scriptural they are.
However, if one grows up in a faith tradition where Mary is not really talked about, it’s easy to overlook the meaning of these passages. To Protestants, the passage you quote may just be Jesus making sure someone takes care of His mother. One might not even think twice about what the passage means.
 
If you want to start a fist fight with someone -
just insult their mother -
I would never speak bad about Mary, for fear of Jesus !
 
Holy Scripture actually says all generations will call Mary blessed. I don’t encounter (most) Protestants doing so. I think many actually recoil from the words ‘Blessed Virgin Mary’. I think rejection of the Catholic Church often takes precedence over even the Bible, which they hold up as their sole rule of faith.
 
I think, simply put, people are afraid of what they don’t understand…when they are afraid they let the devil in, perhaps not on purpose but the devil is wily and deceptive. That’s why God says do not be afraid so often. It can be difficult to understand the relationship of Mary in all of everything…we Catholics are blessed beyond measure as the church has and does explain it well for us, so if we listen well to the mass and catechism we know. Other’s who don’t grow up with this may find it harder to understand. It’s sad really.
 
Most of the protestants talk of Mary as mother of Jesus (meaning the human Jesus) while the Orthodox and Catholic Churches talk of Mary as the Mother of God (Jesus, God incarnate).

Listen to the Akathist hymn and you will find why the Catholics and Orthodox have a different focus. It is prayed standing (because of its name) and Catholics can pray the Akathist instead of the rosary.

(Personally, I prefer the Akathist as the people who pray the rosary in church race through the prayer and don’t pray together but separately and sometimes in several languages at the same time so I just get stressed when I hear people praying the rosary.)

 
Pathway2 said:
why does she at times get dismissed by some protestant denominations
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Protestants feel (sometimes justifiably) that Catholics have over-emphasized Mary. Some Catholics today believe Mary is a sort of co-redeemer along with Jesus. I believe Mother Teresa had that view. But it’s wrong–there is only one redeemer. Unfortunately, some Protestants have gone too far in the other direction. Mary was not “just” another human being, she was the mother of God, sinless (“Immaculate Conception”), and was assumed into Heaven (feast of the Assumption). So she’s human, but sort of the #1 human in they eyes of God.
 
It is because the protestants forgot who there enemy is as in 1 Peter 5:8 Discipline yourselves, keep alert. Like a roaring lion your adversary the devil prowls around, looking for someone to devour.

Ephesians 6: 12 For our struggle is not against enemies of blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places

Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Revelation 12:15 Then from his mouth the serpent poured water like a river after the woman, to sweep her away with the flood. 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman; it opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her children, those who keep the commandments of God and hold the testimony of Jesus
 
midori said:
As the anecdote goes-- Napoleon threatened to crush the Church. And Cardinal Consalvi answered, “If we, the clergy, have failed to destroy the Church over the last 1800 years, what makes you think you will succeed?” 😛
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Extra ❤️ like that quote. Comes to mind at every reminder of our past sins.
 
But doesn’t that prove that scripture alone is flawed as people will dismiss ideas where Luther thought that Scripture alone would help restore the church to what it originally was?
 
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The main difference between Francis and the later Reformation… while both “reformers” in their own way, is that the latter were tied to political powers and kingdoms. There was a lot of loot for them to potentially steal.

Francis had nothing to do with money, so his efforts remained within the bounds of the church.
 
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