I am confused...

[Moabiter]

Over in the ASK AN APOLOGIST Forum I came across the following answer to the issue of attending Protestant Services:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=796653

It suggests that attending Protestant Services should only be done for “some serious and objective reason to go as a means of support for a Protestant friend or family member”.

I am surprised by such an answer. I have never heard such an opinion before.

Now, I myself happen to only have reembraced my Catholic identity this year. So I’m new at this, yet seek to be orthodox in my behaviour.

Now, I currently, next to attending Sunday mass and other activities within the fold of the Catholic Church, I have the Habit of:

• attending a Protestant church Service on Friday evenings (Songs, prayers, readings, Sermon).
• once a month (or so) attend the Protestant Service in my former congregation on Sunday Mornings. I go to Mass before or after doing so, then. I want to uphold those personal ties and see also such Services as an aid to my faith (I do not take part in Protestant communion).
• attend Taizé evenings and such set in a Protestant context

My Outlook on These “ecumenical” activities of mine has been in part shaped by Pope John Paul II’s stance that all that can be done together, should be done together.

Why should I be more “sectarian” than the great Pope?

 

[eyesopening]

Well, while there are many things that are good and true about various flavors of protestantism, there are in an open state of heresy to the Catholic Church. Attending their services, while probably not sinful, can confuse one about the true faith. Protestants reject the Catholic Church as the one true Church. In addition, some of their official documents such as the Westminster Catechism formally defines the Pope of Rome as Anti-Christ. Now, all protestants do not believe that of course, but they are in a state of open rebellion against Christ’s Church. I would not attend. I am also a convert to Catholicism from protestant Christianity. Blessings.

 

[CatholicRaven]

I think in general, these kinds of things are discouraged because they give the false impression that “all (Christian) religions are equal,” and because it can actually be disrespectful to the other members for Catholics to participate in a religious service that they don’t take seriously. This does not mean that we should not pray together with other Christians or that all Catholics should avoid events or services where we may encounter Protestants! It just means that we need to prayerfully consider what is appropriate for our situation and our calling–not just for ourselves, but for all those involved.

One concern may be that while you are working so hard to maintain those old personal ties, you might be avoiding or missing out on making new ones in your new Church, or missing opportunities to help and support your parish. If you were not attending those Protestant services as often, could you still maintain those personal ties through other means, or are they friendships that are only relevant to the setting? I’m not saying that this is necessarily the case, just one possibility to consider.

In your case, I would suggest seeking a good Spiritual Director/Advisor and discussing your situation with him/her.

 

[JerryZ]

I don not believe that Catholics are “forbidden” to attend protestant services rather we are discouraged because as others have pointed out we might give false impressions to people. Be that Catholics or Protestants. Also it can unduly test our faith and if we are not sufficiently grounded on it, it can lead one astray with the obvious consequences to our salvation.
It is not to be handled lightly imho!
On the other hand we need to engage our protestant brothers that they may come to know the fulness of truth always remembering that as Father Mitch Pacqua says “we are in sales”
Leave the conversion to the Holy Spirit.

 

[CB_Catholic]

When I go to visit my Protestant relatives I attend their services. They come to Mass with me, too. That is the agreement we have made to keep peace in the family and to share our Christianity. I do not believe this is a sin. I also have enough faith and trust in myself and my beliefs that I am not going to be persuaded to abandon my faith.

You are an adult. You know what you believe. You should be able to judge on your own whether your faith will be endangered. I cannot see any reason why you should not occasionally attend services at your former church to keep friendships up as long as you do not participate in their Communion services, which is against Catholic Church teachings.

The Catholic Church does not teach that a Catholic cannot attend a Protestant service.

 

[FAB]

Over in the ASK AN APOLOGIST Forum I came across the following answer to the issue of attending Protestant Services:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=796653

It suggests that attending Protestant Services should only be done for “some serious and objective reason to go as a means of support for a Protestant friend or family member”.

I am surprised by such an answer. I have never heard such an opinion before.

Now, I myself happen to only have reembraced my Catholic identity this year. So I’m new at this, yet seek to be orthodox in my behaviour.

Now, I currently, next to attending Sunday mass and other activities within the fold of the Catholic Church, I have the Habit of:

• attending a Protestant church Service on Friday evenings (Songs, prayers, readings, Sermon).
• once a month (or so) attend the Protestant Service in my former congregation on Sunday Mornings. I go to Mass before or after doing so, then. I want to uphold those personal ties and see also such Services as an aid to my faith (I do not take part in Protestant communion).
• attend Taizé evenings and such set in a Protestant context

My Outlook on These “ecumenical” activities of mine has been in part shaped by Pope John Paul II’s stance that all that can be done together, should be done together.

Why should I be more “sectarian” than the great Pope?

I can understand you wanting to keep in touch with friends, and there is not a proibition from Catholics attending protestant services, it sounds like seem still a little split. Ecumenical participation is fine, but a Catholic always maintains thier Catholic identity.

I would suggest a focus on more Catholic opportunites for a while to help your renewed Catholic faith grow. If you like the Friday night song and praise, look for a Charismatic group in your area, go to reteats such as ACTS to establish a firmer base in of Catholic friends and support, also it should be possible to find a parish or retreat center that does Taize Catholic, afterall it is a Catholic form of prayer.

Deacon Frank

 

[jmcrae]

Over in the ASK AN APOLOGIST Forum I came across the following answer to the issue of attending Protestant Services:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=796653

It suggests that attending Protestant Services should only be done for “some serious and objective reason to go as a means of support for a Protestant friend or family member”.

I am surprised by such an answer. I have never heard such an opinion before.

Now, I myself happen to only have reembraced my Catholic identity this year. So I’m new at this, yet seek to be orthodox in my behaviour.

Now, I currently, next to attending Sunday mass and other activities within the fold of the Catholic Church, I have the Habit of:

• attending a Protestant church Service on Friday evenings (Songs, prayers, readings, Sermon).
• once a month (or so) attend the Protestant Service in my former congregation on Sunday Mornings. I go to Mass before or after doing so, then. I want to uphold those personal ties and see also such Services as an aid to my faith (I do not take part in Protestant communion).
• attend Taizé evenings and such set in a Protestant context

My Outlook on These “ecumenical” activities of mine has been in part shaped by Pope John Paul II’s stance that all that can be done together, should be done together.

Why should I be more “sectarian” than the great Pope?

It seems to me that during the process of re-embracing your Catholic faith, you should not listen to anything that could potentially contain heresy. I’m not saying that the sermons you listen to on Friday nights are heretical - but ask the preacher this:

“Did Mary have other children, besides Jesus?”

If he says “Yes,” then you have been listening to a material heretic, and you need to stop going to those services immediately, so as to avoid unintentionally believing things that are not actually true - after all, we hear so many things that often we forget the source of them, and believe them because we haven’t been taught any differently - and if he believes that Mary had other children, he may well believe and openly teach other things that are contrary to our holy Faith, that you might not pick up on quite as easily.

It’s very important for us to surround ourselves with Truth, and embed ourselves in it to the exclusion of all false teachings for a period of time, until we know it by instinct.

 

[bben15]

Hello. By doing that, if you ask me, you are making an impression that all Christian denominations are “equal.” Attending a Protestant service is not prohibited, but it is discouraged, unless of course, you are supporting family or friends. I can understand not wanting to break ties with some people of your former congregation. But consider this: If you converted to Catholicism from Islam, would you still attend mosque on Friday afternoons? Some people might point out that Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI prayed in a Turkish mosque once. That is true, but it’s not like he went there often and prayed. It was a one-time thing. The line can be blurred in these kind of situations. We may not be sure whether something is going too far or not.

In the end, it is all up to you. But, I would be careful not to strain your relationship with the Church. Yes, ecumenism is encouraged. But, we do not want to take things too far. You need to be careful of what you listen to in the sermon at the Protestant church. You don’t want to wander away from the Faith. As Deacon Frank above pointed out, ecumenical participation is fine. But, again, you need to be sure you aren’t taking things too far. I’m not saying you can’t attend Protestant services, but I’m just warning you that you need to watch what you listen to and how much you participate, so as to not strain your relationship with the Church.

God bless you.

 

[Moabiter]

I thank you all for the advice you gave me.

As some of you have suggested, I shall talk it over with my (Dominican) spiritual advisor.

My re-embracing of the Catholic faith is quite recent and I haven’t yet settled on one parish either. The Dominican-run church right next-door sadly has nothing really in the way of spiritual/catechetical nature for non-Senior adults. They’re working on adressing the matter, but it makes it more difficult in Terms of Christian Fellowship. But it’s in my part of town and I’d like to be involved closeby.

The other church is farther away and has a lot more going on in that respect and draws also more of a younger crowd.

I’ve been advised not to rush such a decision. Much as I was encouraged to take my time as to my denominational decision and see where I’d find myself after a year. Well, I made my decision in that respect faster than that. But the parish issue remains unsolved for me, right now. I Need some guidance on that as well.

 

[Michael_Allen]

Hi Moabiter

I’m glad to say that in the UK we have a Churches Together movement that the Catholic Church supports. We have ecumenical events and worship, and in my previous parish we had a six week shared bible study group each year.

I also feel blessed that we have an ecumenical prayer group at work, so some of us get together, from quite different denominations, to pray together - either for personal intentions people have, or for world events.

Benedictine communities often have lay groups called ‘oblates’ and these may frequently be ecumenical in nature (the Benedictines are rooted in a time before schisms occurred). At our local abbey we also have “Benedict days” which attract people from all different background to hear and talk about how a Benedictine approach may enrich our lives.

I also tend to think that it’s much better to talk with, and share a little of life with, other people than read about them. For example, I’ve been reading about Quakerism and was recently blessed to be able to share in one of their Quaker meetings for worship (which are mostly silent; silence may sometimes bring us together when words would divide). There’s a better quality of understanding, I believe, when we spend some time with others.

A last point is that I’ve learned a great deal from non-Catholic Christians. C.S.Lewis, for example, played an important role in developing my adult faith. That, more lately, has been supported by N.T.Wright who is a super scholar of first century Christianity. I’ve also learned from Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, whose writings on Genesis and Exodus, from a Jewish perspective, opened up a greater understanding of the books for me.

That’s just a few very personal perspectives and experiences where sharing in prayer, worship or study with other Christians (or a Jew) have been a blessing to me.

God bless +

Michael

 

[Origen52]

Hi Moabiter

I’m glad to say that in the UK we have a Churches Together movement that the Catholic Church supports. We have ecumenical events and worship, and in my previous parish we had a six week shared bible study group each year.

I also feel blessed that we have an ecumenical prayer group at work, so some of us get together, from quite different denominations, to pray together - either for personal intentions people have, or for world events.

Benedictine communities often have lay groups called ‘oblates’ and these may frequently be ecumenical in nature (the Benedictines are rooted in a time before schisms occurred). At our local abbey we also have “Benedict days” which attract people from all different background to hear and talk about how a Benedictine approach may enrich our lives.

I also tend to think that it’s much better to talk with, and share a little of life with, other people than read about them. For example, I’ve been reading about Quakerism and was recently blessed to be able to share in one of their Quaker meetings for worship (which are mostly silent; silence may sometimes bring us together when words would divide). There’s a better quality of understanding, I believe, when we spend some time with others.

A last point is that I’ve learned a great deal from non-Catholic Christians. C.S.Lewis, for example, played an important role in developing my adult faith. That, more lately, has been supported by N.T.Wright who is a super scholar of first century Christianity. I’ve also learned from Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, whose writings on Genesis and Exodus, from a Jewish perspective, opened up a greater understanding of the books for me.

That’s just a few very personal perspectives and experiences where sharing in prayer, worship or study with other Christians (or a Jew) have been a blessing to me.

God bless +

Michael

Michael, I totally agree with you. I have never heard a Protestant say anything nasty about the Catholic Church. One of my good friend is a baptist minister, I have gone to hear her preach and was impressed with 1. The quality of her sermon 2. The attention and respect of the congregation. The service lasted over two hours and there was no shuffling of feet or attempt to stamped out at the end of the service. I can’t imagine any catholic congregation attending regular two hour masses.

I think in these difficult times for all religions, deists have to support and respect each other. If we can start by agreeing in the existence of a creator god, we can respectfully share our religious experiences. I am a catholic because I believe the teachings of the church are the most consistent with the teachings of Christ, but I don’t believe we have a lock on goodness, faith, or the Holy Spirit. Maybe my perspective is different because I live in Canada and here Catholicism is the major religion:shrug:

 

[eyesopening]

Michael, I totally agree with you. I have never heard a Protestant say anything nasty about the Catholic Church. One of my good friend is a baptist minister, I have gone to hear her preach and was impressed with 1. The quality of her sermon 2. The attention and respect of the congregation. The service lasted over two hours and there was no shuffling of feet or attempt to stamped out at the end of the service. I can’t imagine any catholic congregation attending regular two hour masses.

I think in these difficult times for all religions, deists have to support and respect each other. If we can start by agreeing in the existence of a creator god, we can respectfully share our religious experiences. I am a catholic because I believe the teachings of the church are the most consistent with the teachings of Christ, but I don’t believe we have a lock on goodness, faith, or the Holy Spirit. Maybe my perspective is different because I live in Canada and here Catholicism is the major religion:shrug:

I was a protestant up until last year and I had all kinds of nasty things to say about the Catholic Church. I am now happily Catholic! It depends on what kind of protestant you encounter. I was an evangelical Presbyterian. When we joined our church we would swear to uphold the Westminster Confession of Faith. This states emphatically that the Pope of Rome is in fact the anti-Christ. I swore to this, and later realized the error of my ways and converted to Catholicism. Most protestants (I said most) who are serious about their faith do not really believe Catholics are really Christians at all, although they tend to talk about this amongst themselves and do not normally confront Catholics about this. Many of the protestants that you associate with probably believe this but are not rude enough to say so directly to you.

 

[Origen52]

I was a protestant up until last year and I had all kinds of nasty things to say about the Catholic Church. I am now happily Catholic! It depends on what kind of protestant you encounter. I was an evangelical Presbyterian. When we joined our church we would swear to uphold the Westminster Confession of Faith. This states emphatically that the Pope of Rome is in fact the anti-Christ. I swore to this, and later realized the error of my ways and converted to Catholicism. Most protestants (I said most) who are serious about their faith do not really believe Catholics are really Christians at all, although they tend to talk about this amongst themselves and do not normally confront Catholics about this. Many of the protestants that you associate with probably believe this but are not rude enough to say so directly to you.

I will assume you live in England or the states, if I’m wrong I apologize. In my defence, let me assure you I am not an idiot and I can tell when I’m being patronized. Denise (baptist minister) and I have known each other for six years. We are not just acquaintances, we are friends. We go out together and get together at least once a week.
The reformation happened over 500 years ago, let’s move on.

Finally here’s a quote from the catholic catechism

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

 

[Brigid34]

I was a protestant up until last year and I had all kinds of nasty things to say about the Catholic Church. I am now happily Catholic! It depends on what kind of protestant you encounter. I was an evangelical Presbyterian. When we joined our church we would swear to uphold the Westminster Confession of Faith. This states emphatically that the Pope of Rome is in fact the anti-Christ. I swore to this, and later realized the error of my ways and converted to Catholicism. Most protestants (I said most) who are serious about their faith do not really believe Catholics are really Christians at all, although they tend to talk about this amongst themselves and do not normally confront Catholics about this. Many of the protestants that you associate with probably believe this but are not rude enough to say so directly to you.

I am another that has heard no anti-catholic words from any other than on CA radio. I realize they are out there but haven’t encountered any.

Regarding the parish you become involved with-I would talk to the priest of the church near you as he may have ideas about starting such groups or of one that is just starting that you aren’t aware of yet.

 

[felsguy]

I will assume you live in England or the states, if I’m wrong I apologize. In my defence, let me assure you I am not an idiot and I can tell when I’m being patronized. Denise (baptist minister) and I have known each other for six years. We are not just acquaintances, we are friends. We go out together and get together at least once a week.
The reformation happened over 500 years ago, let’s move on.

In many parts of the US anti-Catholicism is virulent? May I ask in what part of the world you live?

And one exception generally does not make the rule.

.

 

[eyesopening]

I will assume you live in England or the states, if I’m wrong I apologize. In my defence, let me assure you I am not an idiot and I can tell when I’m being patronized. Denise (baptist minister) and I have known each other for six years. We are not just acquaintances, we are friends. We go out together and get together at least once a week.
The reformation happened over 500 years ago, let’s move on.

Finally here’s a quote from the catholic catechism

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

I am another that has heard no anti-catholic words from any other than on CA radio. I realize they are out there but haven’t encountered any.

Regarding the parish you become involved with-I would talk to the priest of the church near you as he may have ideas about starting such groups or of one that is just starting that you aren’t aware of yet.

Origen52. I in no way meant to imply that you were an idiot. I believe you when you say that you are friends.

Brigid, anti-Catholism is huge. When I was a protestant we would have study groups completely dedicated to debunking Catholicism. I was invited to seminars where this was the subject matter. It was the focus of Sunday school lessons for children, adults, special weekday meetings etc. and I don’t just mean in the church that I was involved (there actually was less of that kind of thing where I went to church). The southern Baptists are particular into this type of thing. (I was a pentecostal and then a Evangelical Presbyterian.) When I became a Catholic the vast majority of Catholics that I met were clueless that this was going on. It is happening at nearly every fundamentalist church in Houston and likely across the entire south (US) and many evangelical churches around our nation right now. Just because you personally haven’t been exposed to it (thanks be to God) doesn’t mean its not out there.

Now that being said, I also did not mean to sound as if I’m ready to start lighting the pyres! I love my evangelical friends and the more educated among them had no problem when I converted to Catholicism despite all this. However, my pastor and my pastor’s wife called me in (I was the church pianist) to discuss my leaving for Catholicism and she said to me and I quote, “You are making a big mistake. Catholicism is a works religion and they are THE ENEMY!” No lie, she said that! Hers is a very common viewpoint in the more radical protestant denominations out there.

 

[Origen52]

In many parts of the US anti-Catholicism is virulent? May I ask in what part of the world you live?

And one exception generally does not make the rule.

.

I think I mentioned that I live in Canada, in Toronto, one of the friendliest, safest, multi-ethnic cities in the world. Canada has very strict rules about “hate speech”, that keeps a lid on the type of things which can be said over the media. Some of the things I’ve heard broadcast from the u.s., in the name of free speech would not be allowed here. Maybe that’s why we live in a spirit of acceptance and cooperation. Also, in Canada Catholics are the largest religious group, this may make a difference. We also don’t have many extreme evangelist, which seem to be a large group in the u.s.

In Canada only 22% claim to be creationists, in the u.s. the number is about 50%. This may be a result of a more fundamentalist evangelical base, just a guess on my part. Be it as it may, I think the point I’m trying to make, maybe badly, is that as Catholics we should be open to ecumenism, and not allow negative people to make us defensive. We also need to be careful to not claim that “only Catholics can be saved”. It’s never been the teaching of the church and I understand how that can antagonize other religions. So finally, what I’m saying is let’s all try to get along, and support each other to be accepting of others.

 

[felsguy]

Be it as it may, I think the point I’m trying to make, maybe badly, is that as Catholics we should be open to ecumenism, and not allow negative people to make us defensive. We also need to be careful to not claim that “only Catholics can be saved”. It’s never been the teaching of the church and I understand how that can antagonize other religions. So finally, what I’m saying is let’s all try to get along, and support each other to be accepting of others.

I agree wholeheartedly.

.

 

[Moabiter]

When I met with my (now former) Evangelical pastor and explained that I was now re-embracing my Catholic faith, he expressed his regret in losing me, but couldn’t have been more respectful about my decision. And we remain on excellent terms.

Yet I’ve also heard similar stories to the one offered by Eyesopening from friends of mine.

Here in Germany, anti-Catholicism tends to be more virulent among wider secular society. For one, DER SPIEGEL, arguably Germany’s most influential print medium, is stridently anti-Catholic (and in extension anti-Christian). Those views also hold sway over many Protestants and also a fair number of Catholics, themselves, though I suppose that it is then more properly decribed as anti-clericalism.

That being said, I don’t ask about a fellow Christian’s stance on papal authority, the priesthood and moral theology when worshipping together. I don’t see associating with Protestants and worshipping together leading me astray from my newfound orthodoxy. No more than associating with the many Catholics here who are emphatically not orthodox in their outlook.

I think particularly in a predominantly atheist/agnostic environment as one finds here in Eastern Germany, Christians of all denominations and persuasions need to come together. My sense is that our situation here is quite unlike that experienced by say American Catholics.