I am considering the Orthodox Church

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gumbercules
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

Gumbercules

Guest
I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?
 
Gumbercules said:
I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
You should become Orthodox because you believe what it teaches is true, not based on scandals in the RCC. Orthodoxy has plenty of its own scandals. The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, but the hierarchy is still composed of sinners.
 
wynd said:
You should become Orthodox because you believe what it teaches is true, not based on scandals in the RCC. Orthodoxy has plenty of its own scandals. The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, but the hierarchy is still composed of sinners.
Click to expand...
So true.
 
As has been said, if you want a Church that doesn’t have a hierarchy composed of sinners you’re out of luck. It doesn’t exist. The Orthodox Church doesn’t have the major sex scandals that the Catholics seem to be having (although don’t confuse that with pedophile priests being nonexistant in the East), but we have our own issues. Uniting to the Orthodox faith for that reason is a false unity.
 
First of all, be careful who you believe. There will always be critics and implications, but no charge, of any sort, against our Holy Father has been confirmed. That being said, even if it is demonstrated that the Pope has been involved in scandal (though I very much doubt it I the case of our current Holy Father), Jesus’ promise holds true - the gates of Hades will not prevail. The Church has been rocked by scandal in high places again and again and again…yet despite the multitude of failings on the part of the hierarchy, the Church itself has endured and her faith and sacraments intact. During the Arian heresy, when West and East were still one, there was a point where the majority of bishops were heretics?
! But Jesus is not hindered by the failings of his ministers. Even if sometimes celebrated poorly and by impious hands, the sacrifice of Christ is still offered on our altars…because our faith is ultimately not in the hierarchy but in Christ himself. Jesus has given his priests a marvelous gift, but Satan will target them more than anyone else - and they still have freewill, including the ability to sin. St John Chrysostom, who is highly venerated in Orthodoxy, and who in fact composed the liturgy they use to this day, once said ‘The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops’. (or something close to that). Caiaphas, who was high priest, condemned Jesus to death…yet Scripture tells us he spoke by the Holy Spirit. His personal sin and lack of faith did not invalidate the authority God gave him.
 
Gumbercules said:
I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I remember when I was fed up with the “personal interpretation” and fractured denominationalism of my evangelical sojourn for truth brought me to the crossroads of Eastern Orthodox vs. Roman Catholicism. Some of my friends had become Eastern Orthodox, one had become a Catholic.

For me, the bottom line came when I was reading a book by Frederica Mathewes-Green, an Eastern Orthodox author. They did not have one Authority in Eastern Orthodox thinking. For me it was the Sanctity of Life issue. The Eastern Orthodox have not had binding Magisterial teaching for centuries, so they are all over the board on abortion and contraception. I realized that the Roman Catholic Church is the only Church on Earth that is totally functionally Biblical, has a binding Magisterium, and Authoritative teaching.

This article by Jimmy Akin shares some of my other misgivings with Eastern Orthodox.

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0504bt.asp

The Church, it’s authority and it’s teaching is not corrupt.
Yes, there are corrupt people.
Jesus said there would be – and in the pews right next to us.

Gotta see that from another perspective though, sometimes, in order to realize it’s everywhere. I had the vantage point of seeing corruption on the evangelical side (which changes its beliefs over time to cater to the masses) before I converted to be Roman Catholic.
 
Gumbercules said:
I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Leaving Christs Church because of the actions of its members is not a valid reason. To put it as nicely as I can there is and never will be a valid reason to leave The Catholic Church. You show God true love by staying in his Church, and you commet a bigger abuse by leaving His Church than those who while in the Church live scandalously. Stay with Christ and His Church especially during its journey to calvery! If you were an Apostle would you let Judas shake your faith? If not then why now? Ask yourself how do you give glory to God by leaving his house to join another which was founded by men who also left Gods house?

Poor Jesus please have mercy on us all!
 
Our Lord hates these terrible abuses, heresies, and harming of innocent little children. However, schism is a sin, and it does not make Him feel better. When Our Lord appeared to St. Faustina, He asked that people pray especially for heretics and schismatics, because during His passion they tore at His Body and Heart.

ewtn.com/devotionals/mercy/novena.htm#5
 
awatkins69 said:
Our Lord hates these terrible abuses, heresies, and harming of innocent little children. However, schism is a sin, and it does not make Him feel better. When Our Lord appeared to St. Faustina, He asked that people pray especially for heretics and schismatics, because during His passion they tore at His Body and Heart.

ewtn.com/devotionals/mercy/novena.htm#5
Click to expand...
…then again, you’re not obligated to believe in any of those apparitions either- right? :rolleyes:
 
Study Orthodoxy. Attend Divine Liturgy. Pray, reflect, and let the Holy Spirit guide you. If, after all these things, you are still convinced that Orthodoxy has the Truth, then by all means do so. It takes time for one to become a catechumen, and from that time to entering the Orthodox Church even more time. You will have a lot of time to think things.
 
Gumbercules said:
I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
If you decide to become Orthodox, become Orthodox because you believe what Orthodoxy teaches is true.

The Orthodox Church has had its share of scandals.

To paraphrase Billy Graham: if you find the perfect church, then by all means join it. Then it will not be perfect.
 
graceandglory said:
For me, the bottom line came when I was reading a book by Frederica Mathewes-Green, an Eastern Orthodox author. They did not have one Authority in Eastern Orthodox thinking. For me it was the Sanctity of Life issue. The Eastern Orthodox have not had binding Magisterial teaching for centuries, so they are all over the board on abortion and contraception. I realized that the Roman Catholic Church is the only Church on Earth that is totally functionally Biblical, has a binding Magisterium, and Authoritative teaching.
Click to expand...
All the Orthodox Churches condemn abortion. And on contraception, it is not fair to say they are all over the board. No Orthodox jurisdiction says, for example, artificial contraception, WAHOO!
 
Two years is far too short to consider ourselves ‘mature’ Catholics. To be considering moving on to yet another tradition in such a short time span… seems odd to me.
 
**
Gumbercules said:
I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
**

No offense,but I think you need to re-examine your beliefs as a Christian. If you truly believe the Orthodox Church does not have its share of scandals or issues,then you are gravely mistaken.Second,Jesus Himself stated their will be scandals and I wonder why? Because we are sinners.Third,one is not Catholic because of the priest,but because of God. You didn’t join a health club,but belong to the Body of Christ through baptism.Fourth, you forget one simple aspect of the church: Jesus left a church full of sinners,not perfectionists.

Last but not least, I can tell you of one scandal in the early church.I do recall Peter DENYING Jesus during His trial? Did the other Apostles and disciples leave because of Peter’s scandal? 😉

Your convictions should NOT be based on a few bad apples,but on God and God alone.
 
Gumbercules said:
I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
The Pope himself is not a part of the scandal. He is correcting it. The scandal is due to satan attacking the leaders of the Church, in the priestly clergy. It’s the one, true, catholic and apostolic Church, after all. The sex abuse is only very few priests compared to the many, many good ones. That’s like saying all teachers are bad, because a few were caught doing inappropriate things with minors. Of course they aren’t all bad. The Pope is doing the best he can to fix things.

Pray about it.
 
Madaglan said:
All the Orthodox Churches condemn abortion. And on contraception, it is not fair to say they are all over the board. No Orthodox jurisdiction says, for example, artificial contraception, WAHOO!
Click to expand...
Thank you! I do not want to sidetrack this thread, but I’m offended by hearing that claim again here on CAF that Orthodox don’t have a clean teaching on abortion and contraception. In my experience the Orthodox have come out squarely in opposition to abortion and artificial birth control. At the March for Life Orthodox clergy have been on the main stage and highly visible. His Beatitude, Metropolitan Jonah has been unflinching in his call for the sanctity of all human life. Students from Saint Vladimir’s Seminary, and Saint Tikhon’s Seminary were highly visible at the March.

I’ve resisted speaking up when this claim that the Orthodox have a less than clear position on Life has been made numerous times here on CAF . Thank you for speaking up, Madaglan.
 
From a strict interpretation of the bit about Peter being the Rock… If indeed the Pope is corrupt, then the Church has fallen; logically, then, there is no church, and orthodoxy and Catholicism are both simple inherited delusions.

If instead, the Rock is Peter’s confession, then Orthodoxy may or may not be valid, Catholicism probably isn’t, but neither can truly claim Peter’s faith, since more was defined at Nicea, and not all that was accepted at Nicea in the 4th C can be traced to Peter; some traces to Paul, and some to other patriarchal founders, including St. Andrew and St Mark. In fact, if indeed, Peter’s confession of faith is the part that should not fall, one needs to look for an anti-nicene sect that still holds the Petrine letters as the primary text of the faith. (The Byzantine rite actually gives more credence to the Pauline letters.)

In short, by either calculation, I figure either the Catholic and Orthodox Faiths are both valid, since the Pope reconizes both as the same faith (even if some Orthodox deny such) or both are delusional nonsense.

And Protestantism? If indeed either apostolic communion has fallen, then Christ was in error, or some small petrine church in hiding has prevailed and the rest of us have missed it, but protestantism is still, in either case, in serious denial of the (1) origins of the bible as an artifact of the Catholic and Orthodox Union, (2) the pauline texts’ meaning, (3) the petrine texts’ meaning, and (3) the meaning of the last supper.
 
trophybearer said:
…then again, you’re not obligated to believe in any of those apparitions either- right? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
True. But you *are *obligated to believe that schism is a sin, whether you believe he said so to St. Faustina or not.
 
Madaglan said:
All the Orthodox Churches condemn abortion. And on contraception, it is not fair to say they are all over the board. No Orthodox jurisdiction says, for example, artificial contraception, WAHOO!
Click to expand...
In my experience, and I was seriously considering converting, and I visited many orthodox parishes, I could tell of their left-leanings. I read many orthodox writers and found nothing but contempt for pro-life politicians. It did cause me to wonder.

You say, “all the orthodox churches condemn abortion.” With what authority do they condemn?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top