I am considering the Orthodox Church

[graceandglory]

And on contraception, it is not fair to say they are all over the board. No Orthodox jurisdiction says, for example, artificial contraception, WAHOO!

But do they condemn it as intrinsically evil?

 

[Milliardo]

You say, “all the orthodox churches condemn abortion.” With what authority do they condemn?

The Orthodox Church affirms what we read in the Didache, that abortion is condemned. I do not know who are the Orthodox you are referring to; perhaps they are like those liberal Catholics who have the same contempt for Catholic teachings?

 

[graceandglory]

The Orthodox Church affirms what we read in the Didache, that abortion is condemned. I do not know who are the Orthodox you are referring to; perhaps they are like those liberal Catholics who have the same contempt for Catholic teachings?

I have no axe to grind, I was just sharing my own spiritual journey, and why I chose not to become an Eastern Orthodox. I read the best names in Orthodox apologetics when I was converting from very conservative evangelicalism.

The Original poster had some concerns, and I was hoping to encourage the OP to remain a Roman Catholic.

Can an Eastern Orthodox answer my early question? Do they condemn contraception as intrinsically evil? And who are “they?” Is there a Magisterial Authority that can state what the truth is, or is it up to each believer to figure out what is true for them? Who is to say what “we” believe? I ask in all honesty.

This is my journey and these are the questions that brought me to the Catholic Church.

 

[5Loaves]

I read many orthodox writers and found nothing but contempt for pro-life politicians.

I’m sorry and surprised you’ve encountered “nothing but contempt” in “many orthodox writers”. I don’t know what those sources are. It does not match my experience of Orthodox teaching. Here is another suggested reading in addition to the one by His Beatitude, Metropolitan Jonah I referred to earlier.

An Orthodox View of Abortion
BRIEF AMICUS CURIAE OF THE HOLY ORTHODOX CHURCH Submitted to the Supreme Court October Term, 1988
The Holy Orthodox Church was founded by Jesus Christ and the Apostles, and bears witness to that continuous and unbroken faith. [2] The precepts of the Orthodox Christian faith mandate the protection of innocent human life, especially that of unborn children. The Church regards abortion as murder, and as such, takes a very active role in opposing legalized abortion.…

The link will take you to the entire Amicus Curiae brief.

His Beatitude, Metropolitan Jonah from the link I provided in my previous post:

As Orthodox Christians, we strongly affirm the value and sanctity of all human life, from the moment of conception to the final breath one takes. **This affirmation is theologically based, **in that each person bears within him or her self the image of God, and has the potential to fulfill that image by likening him/herself to God. To artificially terminate life is to transgress on that which is holy; it is unthinkable, a grave sin…Every child is an image of the Christ Child, every person an image of God…We affirm the sanctity of life, made holy by the incarnation of the Christ. We affirm that every stage of our life has been sanctified…

You say, “all the orthodox churches condemn abortion.” With what authority do they condemn?

As part of the apostolic church of Jesus Christ, part of what His Holiness John Paul II referred to as “the other lung” of the Church.

 

[Alethiaphile]

In my experience, and I was seriously considering converting, and I visited many orthodox parishes, I could tell of their left-leanings. I read many orthodox writers and found nothing but contempt for pro-life politicians. It did cause me to wonder.

I’ve been to a lot of Orthodox churches, and have never had anything close to that impression. If anything, I’ve been a little put off by some of the Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Ann Coulter afficionados. Of course, they can be found anywhere.

You say, “all the orthodox churches condemn abortion.” With what authority do they condemn?

Uh, as successors of the Apostles.

 

[Mickey]

I could tell of their left-leanings.

LOL! How long have you been Roman Catholic. Boy, do I have some “left leaning” stories for you.

I read many orthodox writers and found nothing but contempt for pro-life politicians.

I found the opposite. The Holy Orthodox Church is rather conservative overall.

 

[josephdaniel29]

You say, “all the orthodox churches condemn abortion.” With what authority do they condemn?

With Apostolic authority to bind and loose. Apparently you didn’t read enough.

Yours in Christ
Joe

 

[Madaglan]

From a strict interpretation of the bit about Peter being the Rock…** If indeed the Pope is corrupt, then the Church has fallen; logically, then, there is no church, and orthodoxy and Catholicism are both simple inherited delusions.
**
If instead, the Rock is Peter’s confession, then Orthodoxy may or may not be valid, Catholicism probably isn’t, but neither can truly claim Peter’s faith, since more was defined at Nicea, and not all that was accepted at Nicea in the 4th C can be traced to Peter; some traces to Paul, and some to other patriarchal founders, including St. Andrew and St Mark. In fact, if indeed, Peter’s confession of faith is the part that should not fall, one needs to look for an anti-nicene sect that still holds the Petrine letters as the primary text of the faith. (The Byzantine rite actually gives more credence to the Pauline letters.)

In short, by either calculation, I figure either the Catholic and Orthodox Faiths are both valid, since the Pope reconizes both as the same faith (even if some Orthodox deny such) or both are delusional nonsense.

And Protestantism? If indeed either apostolic communion has fallen, then Christ was in error, or some small petrine church in hiding has prevailed and the rest of us have missed it, but protestantism is still, in either case, in serious denial of the (1) origins of the bible as an artifact of the Catholic and Orthodox Union, (2) the pauline texts’ meaning, (3) the petrine texts’ meaning, and (3) the meaning of the last supper.

It is not my understanding, in the Latin Catholic tradition, that if the Pope is corrupt, then the Church has fallen. In their personal lives, some of the Medici Popes were quite corrupt, yet this did not disqualify them from their position. Even were the Pope to embrace heresy, he simply would cease being Pope. That is what I took from Latin theology.

 

[Madaglan]

I have no axe to grind, I was just sharing my own spiritual journey, and why I chose not to become an Eastern Orthodox. I read the best names in Orthodox apologetics when I was converting from very conservative evangelicalism.

The Original poster had some concerns, and I was hoping to encourage the OP to remain a Roman Catholic.

Can an Eastern Orthodox answer my early question? Do they condemn contraception as intrinsically evil? And who are “they?” Is there a Magisterial Authority that can state what the truth is, or is it up to each believer to figure out what is true for them? Who is to say what “we” believe? I ask in all honesty.

This is my journey and these are the questions that brought me to the Catholic Church.

The expression “intrinsically evil” or “intrinsic evil” is not given to contraception alone but to a number of other acts. The expression is understood according to the moral theology of the Latin Church which looks at the moral act itself, the intention and the circumstances surrounding the act. Contraception, like rape, adultery, blasphemy, incest, abortion and euthenasia, is considered by the Latin Church wrong in all cases, no matter what the intention or circumstances. Now, killing another human being, stealing, lying–these are not considered intrinsically evil acts, per Latin Catholic teaching, even though most faithful Catholics would say these are wrong if asked right or wrong. If my memory serves me well, the debate on lying as intrinsically evil or wrong in most cases but acceptable in certain cases, depending on the intention, has not been magisterially decided upon.

The Orthodox do not have the same systematic moral theology. So, it is not to be expected that they employ the same language. The Orthodox spiritual father will guide the couple by looking at their intentions. If they do not want to have children out of selfish reasons, he will act appropriately by reminding them not to neglect their marital duty of having children, or at least attempting to procreate. I would think that a Latin priest would do the same for a couple that, for selfish reasons, wanted to utilize NFP to prevent having children until a later time.

 

[Barbieflausa]

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?

Do you have an Orthodox Church in your area? This is a WONDERFUL time to explore the “left lung”…we are heading into the High Holy days (this year everyone is celberating at the same time)…many will be using the ancient Liturgy of Saint Basil The Great. Holy Week there is usually a service in the day…but especially at night. Email or call and see if someone from the church will guide you through. You might be a bit overwhelmed as so much goes on. Let the Holy Spirit be your guide and ask Our Lady/The Theotokas for guidance as well.

 

[torch621]

All the Catholics here have said everything that’s needed to be said.

Don’t leave the Church. Feeling scandalized is no reason to go into schism.

 

[jbm0117]

Go to where you feel called. You will be chastised on forums. No one is sure their way to right, though they claim they are. I believe Rome sees the Eastern Orthodox as a sister church, if I am not mistaken.