I am considering the Orthodox Church

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Mickey said:
Oh contrare Jharek.

The Keenan was immediatey revised after the doctrine was declared by Pius IX. Prior to this it read:

Q. Must not Catholics believe the Pope in himself to be infallible?
A. This is a Protestant invention; it is no article of the Catholic faith; no decision of his can oblige, under pain of heresy, unless it be received and enforced by the teaching body, that is, by the Bishops of the Church.
Keenan Catechism

😉
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Hmmm, searching “infallible” and I get regarding the pope:
Q. Whence comes it that the Pope cannot teach error in place truth?
A. He is infallible: because God assists him, because the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of all truth, aids him according to the promise made to Peter, and in him, to his successors.
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Q. Did not the Apostles and first Christians act on this teaching as infallible?
A. Yes; in Acts xv, 2; Paul and Barnabas, and certain others, went up to Jerusalem to have a disputed question of religion authoritatively decided. They had no Scripture to guide them: yet, after great disputation, they, as the teaching body, decided, Saint Peter declaring that their decision was the decision of the Holy Ghost—“It seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and to us;” and this decision was obeyed by all, as the infallible decree of heaven.
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In addition to the already posted… Sorry Mickey.

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Anyway, it has been enforced hasn’t it? Along with a healthy dose of Keenan constantly asserting the infallibility of the Pope all over the place in his Catechism. I stand by my statements, any catholic who denies the constant teaching of the Church is quite possibly putting their salvation at risk. Only God knows for sure though right? 🙂
 
Mickey said:
And my point was: there was no such risk for those born before 1870. 😃
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So Mickey, do you think it was okay to believe God the Son was in fact a human being who assumed Godly nature instead of being born God and Man, as some did before Nicea declared? 🙂

No risk there believing that eh?
 
Shin said:
So Mickey, do you think it was okay to believe God the Son was in fact a human being who assumed Godly nature instead of being born God and Man, as some did before Nicea declared?
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Good thing we had seven great councils of the undivided Church to set us straight and fight heresies during the times of early Christianity, eh?

No infallible Pope there, eh? 🙂

Gotta go kids! See you next week. 👋
 
Wrong. Catholicism teaches that he is capable of human error–but not doctrinal error ex-cathedra. He is infallible according to RCism. And if I am not mistaken, he would be capable of declaring doctrine apart from a council due to his supposed “infallibility”. This is foreign to the early Church.

Really gotta go now.
 
Harpazo said:
I suggest reading The Orthodox Veneration of the Mother of God by St. John (Maximovitch) of Shanghai and San Francisco. It’s an excellent exposition on the Orthodox view of proper veneration to the Mother of God and he shows how the Immaculate Conception is not compatible with the Orthodox Christian Faith.

In Christ,
Andrew
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By what Orthodox authority is something deemed “proper veneration”? As I’ve shown, Bishop Ware says it is not incompatible and is, in fact, acceptable for Orthodox Christians to believe.
 
jam070406 said:
By what Orthodox authority is something deemed “proper veneration”? As I’ve shown, Bishop Ware says it is not incompatible and is, in fact, acceptable for Orthodox Christians to believe.
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You are hinging your argument on something that bishop Ware has said?
 
Harpazo said:
“I say that the Virgin Mary could not be sanctified before Her conception, inasmuch as She did not exist. If, all the more, She could not be sanctified in the moment of Her conception by reason of the sin which is inseparable from conception, then it remains to believe that She was sanctified after She was conceived in the womb of her mother. This sanctification, if it annihilates sin, makes holy Her birth, but not Her conception. No one is given the right to be conceived in sanctity; only the Lord Christ was conceived of the Holy Spirit, and He alone is holy from His very conception. Excluding Him, it is to all the descendants of Adam that must be referred that which one of them says of himself, both out of a feeling of humility and in acknowledgement of the truth: Behold I was conceived in iniquities (Ps. 50:7). How can one demand that this conception be holy, when it was not the work of the Holy Spirit, not to mention that it came from concupiscence? The Holy Virgin, of course, rejects that glory which, evidently, glorifies sin. She cannot in any way justify a novelty invented in spite of the teaching of the Church, a novelty which is the mother of imprudence, the sister of unbelief, and the daughter of light-mindedness.” Bernard of Clairvaux, Epistle 174

In Christ,
Andrew
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If you are going to appeal to Catholic Teaching why not go to the sources that are authoritative?
 
Mickey said:
You are hinging your argument on something that bishop Ware has said?
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He’s a Bishop right? Do you know better then your Bishops? If anything you’ve shown that Orthodox opinion is just that, opinion.
 
Mickey said:
You are hinging your argument on something that bishop Ware has said?
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Of course your new faith tradition is incapable of making an infallible declaration on the matter, since it can’t have an Eccumenical Council in it’s own right 🙂

Your old one could 🙂
 
crazzeto said:
Of course your new faith tradition is incapable of making an infallible declaration on the matter, since it can’t have an Eccumenical Council in it’s own right 🙂

Your old one could 🙂
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That’s not only completely ridiculous, the reality is quite the opposite. :rolleyes:
 
jam070406 said:
He’s a Bishop right? Do you know better then your Bishops? If anything you’ve shown that Orthodox opinion is just that, opinion.
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ONE thing that ONE Bishop says which is clearly out of sync with the concensus of the rest of the Church is not something to base an arguement on. Give it up-you’re grasping at straws. Shall we then go and see if one of YOUR Bishops has ever said something at odds with the concensus of the rest of your Church? Think we might be able to find a few instances? I do. 😉
 
crazzeto said:
Of course your new faith tradition is incapable of making an infallible declaration on the matter, since it can’t have an Eccumenical Council in it’s own right 🙂

Your old one could 🙂
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As it is the Church doesn’t hold ecumenical councils to condemn the ‘infallible’ dogmatic definitions of a group that has been outside the Church for the past thousand years. 🤷 You can go ahead and define that up is down, not our problem.
 
trophybearer said:
ONE thing that ONE Bishop says which is clearly out of sync with the concensus of the rest of the Church is not something to base an arguement on. Give it up-you’re grasping at straws. Shall we then go and see if one of YOUR Bishops has ever said something at odds with the concensus of the rest of your Church? Think we might be able to find a few instances? I do. 😉
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You miss the point. He stated that the IC has never been defined or condemned in your Church. Therefore it has never been declared error as some like to try and claim. And nobody is heretical if they believe it. 👍
If I am wrong show me the Official authoritative declaration that states otherwise.
 
trophybearer said:
As it is the Church doesn’t hold ecumenical councils to condemn the ‘infallible’ dogmatic definitions of a group that has been outside the Church for the past thousand years. 🤷 You can go ahead and define that up is down, not our problem.
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The fact is, you hurl accusations, concerning the IC, at the Catholic Church and have no authoritative basis to do so. You can’t have it both ways.
 
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