I am considering the Orthodox Church

[Mickey]

Our monsignor told my chiropractor, when he was going through a crisis of faith, to stop reading the catechism; he said it’s the most boring and pointless book in the world, only good for putting someone to sleep. He said he uses it to get to bed at night…nice lol

Ouch! I have never heard such a thing. When I was in communion with Rome, the catechism was an invaluable source for explaining Catholic teachings. I cannot believe he said this? Perhaps you need to attend another Catholic Church?

 

[Mickey]

Of course! But you could say the same for Orthodox Priests, because according to the statistics I gave above, the rate of Catholic Priests abusing minors is no higher than that of Orthodox Priests abusing minors.

I did not see any stats that you posted on Orthodox priests. What is your source? Can you provide a link? The excerpt of the article you posted begins by saying, “*although good data is hard to acquire…” *
**
Are you making generalizations based on this article?

 

[SSTeacher]

The fact is is this happens in the Orthodox Church, and by converting to Orthodoxy, scandals are going to happen as well, except you don’t hear much about them in the media because they are hushed up.

If you say so.

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And, to add to the uncertainty, one can never know for sure who might be hushing something up or covering something up.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers. Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I doubt that you’ve made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic. But it’s possible that you haven’t yet reached the end of your spiritual journey. I thought I had reached the end of mine in the year 2000, when I converted to Evangelical Christianity. However, at the end of 2005, when I began to have doubts about the Evangelical position, I decided to search further. I explored several Non–Catholic denominations and then moved on to explore Orthodox Christianity. I came to Catholic Answers Forum in November 2008, intending to compare and contrast the conclusions I’d reached at that point with the post–conciliar Catholic worldview and although I do not deny that contemporary Catholicism has much to offer, I eventually decided that the fullness of truth is to be found only in Holy Orthodoxy. I became an Orthodox catechumen in April of last year and I will be chrismated shortly, on Saturday, April 3.

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy.

There can be no harm in your doing so. The word Orthodoxy means “right worship” and there is nothing in the way Orthodox Christians approach the LORD in worship to which any thinking Catholic could reasonably object.

I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

I’ve read sundry comments posted by Catholics in the Traditional Catholicism forum and although I think the word “corruption” is perhaps a little strong, I have formed the impression that the horror of Catholic clerics abusing children is not the only issue inside the Catholic Church that is troublesome to contemporary Catholics.

Thoughts?

I think you should contact your nearest Orthodox priest and tell him that you’d like to “come and see.”

Glory to God forever.

Sincerely,
Mick

 

[Mickey]

I became an Orthodox catechumen in April of last year and I will be chrismated shortly, on Saturday, April 3.

Hi Mick,

I am very happy for you. You must be very excited! It will truly be a Holy Pascha to remember!

May God grant you many blessed years!

 

[Lapell]

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?

I’ve just got in, so I will start by replying to the OP before looking the other posts, if you don’t mind…
As for the pope, I don’t think the revelations on sexual abuses implicate him at all. I am quite satisfied about his present position, which he seems determined to keep to the end, and so I think you don’t have to worry about our present pope.
Even in the case he would have done awful things personally, that would not alter his authority as the successor of Peter in teaching the truth about Jesus Christ per se. Let’s say that a pope who doesn’t practice what the Magisterium of the Church teaches is an example not to follow.

 

[Lapell]

As Jesus said about some of the Jewish spiritual authorities: “They teach from Moses’ pulpit. Therefore, do what they preach, but don’t imitate them, for they speak, and do not.”
If a pope was such, we would still have to do what he preaches us from Peter’s pulpit (what they used to call “ex cathedra”: that’s what is meant: Peter’s pulpit), for even then he would teach the Truth. Only, he would not be one we should imitate.
And so, you would still be in the right Church.

 

[SSTeacher]

SSTeacher;6438311:

I became an Orthodox catechumen in April of last year and I will be chrismated shortly, on Saturday, April 3.

Hi Mick,

I am very happy for you. You must be very excited! It will truly be a Holy Pascha to remember!

May God grant you many blessed years!

Thank you very much, Mickey. I’m more excited than I can say – and must admit to being a little nervous, too. I’d like it if everybody in my family was coming along with me but that isn’t how things are just now, unfortunately. Still, in time, perhaps they’ll all perceive that the doors of repentance are also open for them.

And may God grant you many years, also, Mickey! :bounce:

Sincerely,
Mick

 

[Lapell]

If you’re considering Orthodoxy, make sure it’s for all the right reasons: papal authority, filioque, theology, liturgy, history, etc. The Catholic Church has corruption in it. That’s just a fact of life. I am appauled at the pope’s role in this and I’m disgusted at the constant defense people have of the molesters, especially here in CAF. There’s always a defense, an excuse, it’s the knee-jerk apologetics mode.

If one were to explore Orthodoxy, it would be because the individual seriously has doubts about papal infallibility, supremacy, and they see the Roman Church as having initiated the Great Schism. If one were to explore Othodoxy, he’d have to see Roman Catholicism as full of innovation, teachings that diverge from the deposit of faith in the early church, and men like Honorius would be a slam-dunk evidence that the papacy is open to error and heresy. A person considering Orthodoxy would view things like transubstantiation, the marian apparitions, purgatory, indulgences, etc. as innovations. A person considering Orthodoxy might also do so because he considers the Catholic Church two steps away from Protestantism in her liturgy, happy-clappy and lessened in the dignity and beauty of litrugy she had pre-Vatican II.

I agree with you that the corruption in the Church is obscene and unconscionable. You should be outraged. And if anyone in here tries to smooth it over with the lame excuse, “yeah, well it happens in every church,” you should roll your eyes. But I’m saying you should make sure that your reason for leaving isn’t JUST this scandal, but more theological meat and depth.

A scandal is a scandal, in the Catholic Church as well as outside. It hurts us because we’re not suppose to cause any scandals (things which make other people fall). I never meant to say there was nothing of the kind in our Church. Humans are humans. And scandals make teaching the Truth seem something hypocritical, even though teaching the Truth actually comes from Jesus Christ Himself, as Fr. John Corapi says in the Teachings of Jesus Christ series (on the Catechism of The Catholic Church).

 

[Barbieflausa]

Thank you very much, Mickey. I’m more excited than I can say – and must admit to being a little nervous, too. I’d like it if everybody in my family was coming along with me but that isn’t how things are just now, unfortunately. Still, in time, perhaps they’ll all perceive that the doors of repentance are also open for them.

And may God grant you many years, also, Mickey! :bounce:

Sincerely,
Mick

what a wonderful time for you…OPA! and a blessing to all who will come to know the mysteris of Orthodoxy. The east and the West have much to share with one another…much like the mixing of two great cooks, or the wonders of jazz where music from the west meets east, north and south.

 

[Lapell]

I can appreciate the difficulties you face and I think you’re taking the wisest course. It may be that in due course you will feel drawn to Orthodoxy not because of what you find distasteful in Catholicism but because of what you perceive to be so beautiful in Orthodoxy.

Fraternally,
Mick

Aesthetic beauty is very fine. Truth is also beautiful, even more than just aesthetic beauty. Schism isn’t beautiful. The papacy in itself is beautiful because Mt 16 is beautiful for it comes from Jesus Himself, way before the schism. Insults from both sides against one another are certainly not beauty either.
there certainly is room for improvement, hmm?

 

[Mickey]

Aesthetic beauty is very fine. Truth is also beautiful, even more than just aesthetic beauty. Schism isn’t beautiful.’

Amen.

The fullness of truth and the divine beauty of the Holy Orthodox Church is otherworldly.

Schism is not beautiful and we pray for Rome to return to the fold.

 

[Lapell]

You may, if you wish, add my name to the list of people whose original (non-Catholic) churches were also corrupted by sexual abusers. I grew up Presbyterian, and it was only a few years after finally leaving that church for good that I learned that the greeter who had been there every Sunday since I could remember, handing out bulletins and always helping at church functions, was actually a serial sexual predator who had, during those same decades, been molesting young boys who he had in his care over the summer, ostensibly to do landscaping work on his property. He was eventually convicted of multiple counts of child molestation and kidnapping (because he had several underage boys in his house who had apparently been there for months at the time of his arrest, in some sort of bizarre brainwashing situation). I know all this because my step-mother at the time served on the jury that convicted him. My brother had even worked for him one summer. Thanks be to God nothing happened to him (and I was too young to go out there).

Anyway, just wanted to echo that such terrible tragedies can and do happen in any church. Orthodoxy has a great deal of appeal for me, too, but that is due to relative purity of its doctrine and liturgy, not its people. We’re all human. Popes, bishops, laypeople…all sinners, each and every one of us.

It usually isn’t done in the open, so how long does a thing like that takes before the people would know? Including, how much time would it take for the people who learn what happens to make it known to the proper people? And who would be the proper people to speak to, so as the problem be treated properly? And should you start on suspicions only? or should you make sure the thing is certain? For there have been convictions of innocent people even in matters just like these in the past. We must keep that in mind.

 

[Lapell]

Amen.

The fullness of truth and the divine beauty of the Holy Orthodox Church is otherworldly.

Schism is not beautiful and we pray for Rome to return to the fold.

Rome is where Peter’s pulpit is. And he died in Rome. So Peter’s legitimate successors should “return to the fold”? There have been many of Peter’s successors in Rome for about a thousand years before the Schism. And you are telling me that Peter’s present successor must “return to the fold”? How is that?
That the popes should practice the true teachings of the Church they have been delivering in the name of Jesus Christ the actual Head of the Church, this I do agree. But they have kept preaching in the Name of the Everlasting High Priest, Jesus the Christ, up to the end!

 

[SSTeacher]

SSTeacher;6438616:

Thank you very much, Mickey. I’m more excited than I can say – and must admit to being a little nervous, too. I’d like it if everybody in my family was coming along with me but that isn’t how things are just now, unfortunately. Still, in time, perhaps they’ll all perceive that the doors of repentance are also open for them.

And may God grant you many years, also, Mickey! :bounce:

Sincerely,
Mick

what a wonderful time for you…OPA! and a blessing to all who will come to know the mysteries of Orthodoxy. The east and the West have much to share with one another…much like the mixing of two great cooks, or the wonders of jazz where music from the west meets east, north and south.

Yes, a wonderful time indeed. Thanks for your contribution.

Cordially,
Mick

 

[Lapell]

Yes, a wonderful time indeed. Thanks for your contribution.

Cordially,
Mick

God bless you in your journey, SSTeacher.
Sincerely and prayerfully,
Denis

 

[Lapell]

In each one’s own journey, my prayer is that you and I let Jesus Christ grow and that you and I, in doing so, diminish. Easy to say, but hard to put into practice. I need your prayers to achieve this. I will gladly pray for you. Not against you. Have a wonderful journey, everyone. Jesus the Christ must be our goal, ultimately. God be with you all!

 

[lemonbeam]

If you say so.

It’s not if I say so, it’s according to the statistics and to the following article:

sfweekly.com/2002-05-22/news/un-orthodox-behavior/

• Three S.F. women are working to expose cases within the Orthodox Church.

*The lack of response is typical in the Orthodox Church, says Dr. Lucas. “There’s a pattern of keeping things quiet, avoiding a scandal,” he says. “In the interest of keeping it hush-hush, they’ll send the priest away without informing other people.”
*

---

So you see, there have been cover ups in the Orthodox Church too.

 

[Mickey]

Rome is where Peter’s pulpit is.

Rome was founded by St Peter and St Paul.

And he died in Rome.

So did St Paul.

So Peter’s legitimate successors should “return to the fold”?

Yes. Rome was Orthodox at one time and then separated herself from the rest of the Church.

There have been many of Peter’s successors in Rome for about a thousand years before the Schism. And you are telling me that Peter’s present successor must “return to the fold”? How is that?

Return to the Church of the first 1000 years.

Let us not start this argument yet again here. There are many threads for that.

 

[Mickey]

It’s not if I say so, it’s according to the statistics

What statistics?

and to the following article:

You have linked to an article from eight years ago. Any follow-ups?

I am not saying that the Holy Orthodox Church does not have sinners, but I think your “statistics” and “evidence” for widespread sexual abuse in the Holy Orthodox Church is very weak indeed.

 

[SSTeacher]

Gumbercules;6426689:

SSTeacher;6426194:

I’m in total agreement with gurneyhalleck1.

I respectfully suggest that you stay loyal to the Catholic Church and set your sights on weathering out the storm. Work on trying to forgive in your heart all the molesters, together with those who now seek to defend them by diverting attention away from the main point with suggestions of anti–Catholic agendas and exaggeration by the media. Consider the hurt inflicted upon those Catholic children who have suffered at the hands of the perpetrators – and consider, too, the pain of the parents of these children, the siblings and all the other family relatives and friends. Pray for them all. Pray, too, for the ungodly men who committed these acts that they will repent and that the LORD will grant them peace and forgiveness for their sins and not allow them to leave this life without true faith and sincere conversion. Pray, also, for your spiritual leaders that they will by God’s grace find the strength to resist the temptation to bear false witness. There is work for you to do inside Catholicism. If you don’t do it, it won’t get done. Go be an encourager to your fellow–Catholics in their time of need. Forget about Orthodoxy Christianity for the time being.

After your work is done you may still feel inclined to check into Holy Orthodoxy but if you do decide on that course please be aware that you will very soon discover that the Orthodox Church is not without problems. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

May you quickly find peace of mind and the burden of uncertainty be lifted from you.

In Christ,
Mick

I think your advice is good. I think going to another form of Christianity because I am fleeing from another form is wrong, and for me to go to Orthodoxy just because I am fleeing Catholicism would be an insult to the Orthodox Church.

When I came to Catholicism from Evangelical Protestantism, it was because I thought the teachings of the Catholic Church were true, not because I was sick and disgusted with Evangelical Protestantism.

And I suppose my interest in checking out an Orthodox Church stems more from my disgust with the abuse scandal that has implicated the highest echelons of the Church, and what I feel is the encroaching liberalism both liturgically and doctrinally that I feel is in the Church.I can appreciate the difficulties you face and I think you’re taking the wisest course. It may be that in due course you will feel drawn to Orthodoxy not because of what you find distasteful in Catholicism but because of what you perceive to be so beautiful in Orthodoxy.

Fraternally,
Mick

SSTeacher;6427075:

I can appreciate the difficulties you face and I think you’re taking the wisest course. It may be that in due course you will feel drawn to Orthodoxy not because of what you find distasteful in Catholicism but because of what you perceive to be so beautiful

in Orthodoxy.

Fraternally,
Mick
:thumbsup:Aesthetic beauty is very fine. Truth is also beautiful, even more than just aesthetic beauty. Schism isn’t beautiful. The papacy in itself is beautiful because Mt 16 is beautiful for it comes from Jesus Himself, way before the schism. Insults from both sides against one another are certainly not beauty either.
there certainly is room for improvement, hmm?

Assuming that at some time in the future the Original Poster experiences a Divine Liturgy then the principle lex orandi, lex credendi will probably come into play. In other words, nobody should be surprised to discover that the Church which claims to embody the fullness of Truth worships in a way that is reverent and beautiful and aesthetically pleasing. The rule of prayer is the rule of faith.

SSTeacher;6438793:

Yes, a wonderful time indeed. Thanks for your contribution.

Cordially,
Mick

God bless you in your journey, SSTeacher.
Sincerely and prayerfully,
Denis

How kind you are. Thank you very much indeed.

Appreciatively,
Mick