I am Going to My First Roman Catholic Mass Tomorrow

[saylo]

Huh? One of the things the Roman Catholic Priest who I spoke to said was required was that I have a similar Eucharistic theology (i.e. believe in the Real Presence) to a Roman Catholic. How is that degrading the Eucharist to mere symbolism?

It is not uncommon for a priest to be wrong on his perception of the Eucharist…not these days, anyway.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/28/28_2_9.gif

http://www.catholic-legate.com/articles/canon_law_101.html

Notice the similarity between the science of Canon Law and the science of Biblical exegesis. In seeking answers to canonical questions,

we cannot simply pick up the Code of Canon Law

and find a random canon that appears to support our position. Rather, we must understand each canon according to its proper text, its context within the code, canonical tradition, the historical circumstances that gave rise to the canon’s necessity, and finally the intention and purpose with which the legislator promulgated it.

When in doubt on some point of Catholic theology etc. - and addressing the questions raised by the OP in connection with the subject of this thread:

• Phone your Catholic diocesan offices and briefly outline your question(s) and they will either put you through to a known and reliable, reputable person who can give an accurate and informed answer…or give you the telephone number of someone who can.
  With many in these Forums one cannot even discern if they are male or female, let alone anything beyond that… and certainly in most instances there is no way to source check that they are indeed a reliable source of sound and accurate Catholic teaching and theology.

.

 

[nsper7]

Some people seem to think there was an implicit question in my original post and such. In reality, my questions were answered when I spoke to the Priest a few weeks ago and I also prayed about it too (asking that my Communion and Confession would be accepted).

I more made this thread to hear different people’s opinions on this issue and also to tell everyone of an interesting and good thing that occurred in my life.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Some people seem to think there was an implicit question in my original post and such. In reality, my questions were answered when I spoke to the Priest a few weeks ago and I also prayed about it too (asking that my Communion and Confession would be accepted).

I more made this thread to hear different people’s opinions on this issue and also to tell everyone of an interesting and good thing that occurred in my life.

Hi there Nsper7…I think I come under that category of “some people” Delighted to read that in your own mind and conscience the issue is settled completely…and that your experience at Mass was a happy one.
In honesty, things got far too complex and involved in this thread for such as I, confusing to me. This is why you can always escape from me into Apologetics, Philosophy and Moral Theology should there be need which I totally doubt…I’m never there!!! And on the most rare occasion when I have found myself there purely accidentally…I have been completely shot down truly and rightly, and been on headache tablets myself for a day or two.
It did cross my mind too that those in this thread could well be simply having a discussion and sharing opinions, debating issues…but I stuck my foot in things (and probably ‘in my mouth’ too) anyway. Nothing unusual…I am just happy to read that all is settled as far as you are concerned. With that I too can rest easy and if someone stated that there was no reason not to rest easy from the start…I would not dispute that either and nothing unusual with me.
I read a document once on community…and it stated that difficult and hard to bear members in a community should really be very highly appreciated - they give members of any community the opportunity to practise heroic virtue
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_3_23.gif
Blessings and my regards…Barb

 

[Dauphin]

1. They must be in a state of grace as their own Rite/denomination would define it (in other words, how would I prepare spiritually before receiving Eucharist at an Episcopal Church?)
2. They must believe in the Real Presence (when I told him I believe in the RP, but not necessarily transubstantiation, he said it was okay).

This priest is utterly wrong. You must be in a state of grace as God defines it, which includes freedom from the sins of heresy and schism. If you fail to accept any article of Catholic doctrine or submit to the Roman Pontiff, you may not receive Holy Communion.

No person is permitted to pick and choose which Catholic doctrines to which they wish to assent. The Church proposes transubstantiation for belief by every Christian, and if you do not believe it, you may not receive Holy Communion.

The laxity of this priest and many posters here concerning the Eucharist is totally unacceptable and extremely disturbing. It’s stunning that so many are complicit in abuses and sacrileges against the Most Sacred Body and Blood of the Lord, as if the suffering He endured on the cross was not enough.

 

[nsper7]

This priest is utterly wrong. You must be in a state of grace as God defines it, which includes freedom from the sins of heresy and schism. If you fail to accept any article of Catholic doctrine or submit to the Roman Pontiff, you may not receive Holy Communion.

No person is permitted to pick and choose which Catholic doctrines to which they wish to assent. The Church proposes transubstantiation for belief by every Christian, and if you do not believe it, you may not receive Holy Communion.

The laxity of this priest and many posters here concerning the Eucharist is totally unacceptable and extremely disturbing. It’s stunning that so many are complicit in abuses and sacrileges against the Most Sacred Body and Blood of the Lord, as if the suffering He endured on the cross was not enough.

So Dauphin, what am I to do (asked rhetorically)? After all, the Priest (who is validly ordained and the head priest at the parish) has given me the requirements I should meet before receiving Eucharist at a Roman Catholic Mass.

Now, who are you or anyone else (unless they are also a priest or higher) to challenge the Priest I spoke to?

 

[jmcrae]

So Dauphin, what am I to do (asked rhetorically)?

You have to follow your conscience.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

You have to follow your conscience.

… …

 

[totustuus2345]

Now, who are you or anyone else (unless they are also a priest or higher) to challenge the Priest I spoke to?

Many priests these days are not always in line with what the Church teaches

i.e.

unsing glass chalices,
skipping Mass parts,
changing the words of the Eucharistic Prayer,
giving a little too much power* to the laity during Mass,
denying communion to a kneeling person (this actually happens, the priest forced this person to receive on the hand!)

etc. etc. etc.

*for lack of better terms

I know you want to be close to Christ, but our Churches are divided now, and receiving the Eucharist is not acceptable at this time, maybe the Holy Spirit is calling you to the Catholic Church? Hopefully, with time and prayer, these divisions may dissapear and we “will all be one” as Jesus prayed.

May God bless you

Patrick

 

[saylo]

This priest is utterly wrong. You must be in a state of grace as God defines it, which includes freedom from the sins of heresy and schism. If you fail to accept any article of Catholic doctrine or submit to the Roman Pontiff, you may not receive Holy Communion.

No person is permitted to pick and choose which Catholic doctrines to which they wish to assent. The Church proposes transubstantiation for belief by every Christian, and if you do not believe it, you may not receive Holy Communion.

The laxity of this priest and many posters here concerning the Eucharist is totally unacceptable and extremely disturbing. It’s stunning that so many are complicit in abuses and sacrileges against the Most Sacred Body and Blood of the Lord, as if the suffering He endured on the cross was not enough.

Thank you, Dauphin. We who cherish the Eucharist as the actual living Body and Blood of Christ and the awesome realization that He dwells within us while the Eucharist is still undigested thank you.

There is a kind of “relativism” concening the Eucharist and the indiscriminate distribution of it and that is discouraging.

It borders on “humanistic” and should be something to be very wary.

We can see a “touchy-feely” attitude. The Eucharist is taking second place to touchy-feely.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

**Originally Posted by saylo **http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cab/viewpost.gif

St. Paul said, (paraphrasing) …“he who receives the Body and Blood of Christ unworthily is guilty of the Body and Blood of Christ…”

Totally agree. Interesting that we pray in The Mass before Holy Communion “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed”…is this an unnecessary appeal to The Lord? I am not disputing St. Paul…rather I am wondering what biblical exegesis has to say about your quote from St. Paul and I think we understand it as receiving The Blessed Eucharist in the state of mortal sin?..and then why do we pray, theologically speaking, that prayer we do above at Mass prior to Holy Communion?
Questions!

“Unworthily” is defined by Canon Law and that cannot be challenged no matter how, as individuals, would like to be more tolerant and humane. It is NOT a “social” gesture. How did we ever get to that point?

Canon Law is certainly binding on Catholics…as I previously posted:

http://www.catholic-legate.com/articles/canon_law_101.html

*…"…Notice the similarity between the science of Canon Law and the science of Biblical exegesis. In seeking answers to canonical questions, *
**

we cannot simply pick up the Code of Canon Law and find a random canon that appears to support our position

**
. Rather, we must understand each canon according to its proper text, its context within the code, canonical tradition, the historical circumstances that gave rise to the canon’s necessity, and finally the intention and purpose with which the legislator promulgated it…"…

The Eucharist is NOT a meal, per se, it is a bonding of the flesh and blood of Jesus with our own as individuals. WE ALL have to come to Him in total belief, appreciation, humility, and a love for Him that transcends anyone else on this earth.

Alleluia Amen!

There must be a total belief in His Presence. This is not a “social” thing…it is personal and yet it is a community as well.

Alleluia Amen!
We all receive the One Body and Blood of The Lord and are hence united as one people in Him…and each individual fully receives His Body and Blood.

Receiving unworthily can result in eternal condemnation. The opposite is true when we receive with gratitude: eternal life.

Alleluia Amen! Yet we are all totally unworthy, and it is the gratuitous gift of The Lord that is our worthiness.

“He who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood shall never die…”

Alleluia Amen!

We are talking about the Eucharist here and NOT about being “judgmental.”

When I accuse any other of not being worthy or not having the right morally to receive The Lord in Holy Communion and that they are in serious culpable moral error if they do, then I think I am judgemental and of his/her conscience and its status morally. Our Catholic Laws cannot be binding morally on anyone else but Catholics…without of course becoming ridiculous. If a person does not uphold the Catholic Faith, then how can our canonical laws be binding on that person?
I suspect only that some non Catholics who do believe in the Real Presence and in The Catholic Church could be well far more believing and reverant than perhaps some Catholics even though such Catholics are in the state of Grace? What does this mean or imply, simply what I stated.
Certainly I can point out our rules and regulations to a non Catholic or even to a Catholic and as I understand them - and I could be right and I could be wrong. I can even explain to them what these imply as I understand etc - even my fears and suspicions re some matter and either the Catholic or non Catholic - and I could be right or I could be wrong …beyond that is The Lord’s alone…

*…but I am out of my comfort zone and diving into the deep end…ah well…no pain, no gain…but then again - pain possibly, but not necessarily any gain at all…c’est la vie! *

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_11_10.gif

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Thank you, Dauphin. We who cherish the Eucharist as the actual living Body and Blood of Christ and the awesome realization that He dwells within us while the Eucharist is still undigested thank you.

There is a kind of “relativism” concening the Eucharist and the indiscriminate distribution of it and that is discouraging.

It borders on “humanistic” and should be something to be very wary.

We can see a “touchy-feely” attitude. The Eucharist is taking second place to touchy-feely.

We who cherish the Eucharist as the actual living Body and Blood of Christ and the awesome realization that He dwells within us while the Eucharist is still undigested

…as many of us indeed do I am confident! and I am also confident that probaly many non Catholics in their own particular Faith expression and if such Faith Expresion does believe in The Real Presence in their Holy Communion rite, feel exactly the same.

There is a kind of “relativism” concening the Eucharist and the indiscriminate distribution of it and that is discouraging.

A personal assessment and as such is valid as a personal assessment. It is not an declaration of an absolute truth, I dont think!

It borders on “humanistic” and should be something to be very wary.

Another personal opinion and assessment and as such valid…again not a declaration of an absolute truth, I dont think!

We can see a “touchy-feely” attitude. The Eucharist is taking second place to touchy-feely.

Apolgoies, but I do not know what you mean; however, as worded above does seem to go beyond a personal opinion and assessment to a declaration of an actual situation as fact. Source?..and with respect - is it fallible human opinion?

 

[saylo]

**Originally Posted by saylo **http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cab/viewpost.gif
*Totally agree. Interesting that we pray in The Mass before Holy Communion “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed”…is this an unnecessary appeal to The Lord? I am not disputing St. Paul…rather I am wondering what biblical exegesis has to say about your quote from St. Paul and I think we understand it as receiving The Blessed Eucharist in the state of mortal sin?..

It is obvious that is what is meant. The Church also sets the conditions for reception of the Eucharist. Jesus gave that authority when He said, “Whatever you bind on earth…whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven.” It comes under Canon Law.

*Canon Law is certainly binding on Catholics…as I previously posted

Certainly is…to the point that a non-Catholic has to be dissuaded from receiving Communion. That is the Catholic’s obligation. The OP here is a perfect example.

When I accuse any other of not being worthy or not having the right morally to receive The Lord in Holy Communion and that they are in serious culpable moral error if they do, then I think I am judgemental and of his/her conscience and its status morally. Our Catholic Laws cannot be binding morally on anyone else but Catholics…without of course becoming ridiculous. If a person does not uphold the Catholic Faith, then how can our canonical laws be binding on that person?**

This sounds a lot like “relativism” and what the Holy Father continues to stress against. Very dangerous.

I suspect only that some non Catholics who do believe in the Real Presence and in The Catholic Church could be well far more believing and reverant than perhaps some Catholics even though such Catholics are in the state of Grace? What does this mean or imply, simply what I stated.

This is comparing apples to oranges. Children, before their First Holy Communion are schooled and inspired of what will be taking place…it is a PREPARATION. In your view no preparation is necessary for a non-Catholic only to believe in the Real Presence. But, “Real Presence” can mean different things to different people; Catholics and non-Catholics.

Certainly I can point out our rules and regulations to a non Catholic or even to a Catholic and as I understand them - and I could be right and I could be wrong. I can even explain to them what these imply as I understand etc - even my fears and suspicions re some matter and either the Catholic or non Catholic - and I could be right or I could be wrong …beyond that is The Lord’s alone…

This paragraph is void of absolutes. It is nebulous. It sounds that “right” and “wrong” are in the same gray zone. It’s almost like saying, “the 10 Commandments are really only SUGGESTIONS.”

*…but I am out of my comfort zone and diving into the deep end…ah well…no pain, no gain…but then again - pain possibly, but not necessarily any gain at all…c’est la vie! *

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_11_10.gif

 

[BarbaraTherese]

It is my personal opinion only that we do need to hear homilies which clearly spell out exactly Who The Blessed Eucharist is in the Sacred Body and Blood of Christ and that if we do receive The Blessed Eucharist and we consider ourselves in mortal sin and are unrepented and mortal sin(s) unconfessed in The Sacrament of Reconciliation that our souls are destined for Hell in all probability. I also think as my personal opinion that this directive to give such homilies should come from diocesan authority and not as optional recommendation.

My personal opinion and assessment and as such is valid. We each are entitled to experience reality from our own ground of being.

Certainly The Lord will not commit to Hell those who do not fully understand their moral postion etc. etc.and the realities of our Faith…not them anyway.

.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Hi there Saylo…and thank you for the response. It is 12.15am here almost Thur. 14.8.08 (Tomorrow is the Solemnity of The Assumption:extrahappy: ).
I have just got some information that I needed and am heading off to bed. Tomorrow in the main will be committed elsewhere than CAF. But sooner or later I will get back to this thread and to your reply to me, Saylo. Thanks again.

Blessings and my regards…Barb

 

[saylo]

It is my personal opinion only that we do need to hear homilies which clearly spell out exactly Who The Blessed Eucharist is in the Sacred Body and Blood of Christ and that if we do receive The Blessed Eucharist and we consider ourselves in mortal sin and are unrepented and mortal sin(s) unconfessed in The Sacrament of Reconciliation that our souls are destined for Hell in all probability. I also think as my personal opinion that this directive to give such homilies should come from diocesan authority and not as optional recommendation.

This is realativism. It is a dangerous path. One reason is being unable to distinguish sin from virtue; holiness from worldliness.

My personal opinion and assessment and as such is valid. We each are entitled to experience reality from our own ground of being.

Certainly The Lord will not commit to Hell those who do not fully understand their moral postion etc. etc.and the realities of our Faith…not them anyway.

More of the same. It is dangerous.

.

 

[Dauphin]

So Dauphin, what am I to do (asked rhetorically)? After all, the Priest (who is validly ordained and the head priest at the parish) has given me the requirements I should meet before receiving Eucharist at a Roman Catholic Mass.

Now, who are you or anyone else (unless they are also a priest or higher) to challenge the Priest I spoke to?

I’m someone who knows the Divine law, and is telling it to you in the hope that you won’t damn yourself by following this priest’s advice.

Being “validly ordained” does not entitle one to commit sacrilege and violate the Divine law. The Eucharist isn’t our plaything. I don’t even want to imagine what this priest’s punishment will be. There’s a common saying that the road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests - and this is a perfect demonstration of that. He’s leading you off a cliff - no matter what your “feelings” and “conscience” tell you.

 

[margya]

So Dauphin, what am I to do (asked rhetorically)? After all, the Priest (who is validly ordained and the head priest at the parish) has given me the requirements I should meet before receiving Eucharist at a Roman Catholic Mass.

Now, who are you or anyone else (unless they are also a priest or higher) to challenge the Priest I spoke to?

It might be best to call the Apologist Line at Catholic Answers or post it in the forum for Ask an Apologist had have them explain to you what the requirements are for joining the Catholic Church and why non Catholics are not able to receive the Eucharist.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

totustuus

Many priests these days are not always in line with what the Church teaches

i.e.

unsing glass chalices,
skipping Mass parts,
changing the words of the Eucharistic Prayer,
giving a little too much power* to the laity during Mass,
denying communion to a kneeling person (this actually happens, the priest forced this person to receive on the hand!)

Because of these abuses, you’re making the assumption that the OP’s priest doesn’t know what he’s talking about or taking liberties which he is not allowed.

The OP is Anglican and according to the information on the USCCB website, can be allowed to receive Holy Communion, if given permission by the ordinary, aka the Bishop. The Bishop, knowing the priest of his dioceses, can allow them to discern whether to allow a person to receive or not.

This priest who is the only authority in this matter, has given permission to the OP, and she should follow him, rather than the participants of a internet website.

BTW, your profile says that your 14 years old, yet you’re making statements like you know more than this priest.

Jim

 

[nsper7]

I have made a decision. I had originally been planning to go to the Wednesday Mass today since the Episcopal Chapel House would normally have a Wednesday Eucharist and I always tried to attend, but I realize there is no definitive ‘need’ to attend the Wednesday service (as opposed to the Sunday Mass and any major Holy Days).

However, I will go to Confession today and I will attend the Mass for the Assumption (in Anglicanism, although the day has a different name, it is still a major feast).

Dauphin, I hope you are not personally offended by my decisions, but you can understand why I would listen to the ordained Priest in charge of the parish. And I hope you know that I would never intentionally make the Eucharist a “plaything”. I do believe in the Real Presence and to dishonor the Eucharist is to dishonor Christ, His Church (the ‘One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church’ of which I hope and believe both Anglicans and Roman Catholics and all others who rightly call on the name of the Lord are part of) and the privilege I have been granted.