i am homosexual, yet i am Catholic

[kaj3]

Equinox:

So you are stating that I should give up 18 years of upbringing, beliefs and values because I am homosexual, then you are basically saying that I am not excepted within the church. I have been told and I believe that the church accepts / loves everyone…

Equinox – I think you are making an assumption that if the Church doesn’t allow you to do what you want to do, then she doesn’t love or accept you. That is not true. It is precisely the opposite.

It’s like a mother who does not allow her child to touch a hot stove – the child may not understand why, but the mother knows he will be burned if he touches it. And so the mother makes a rule not to touch the stove out of love for her child.

When we disagree with the teachings of the Church, it no doubt takes a great amount of humility to follow her in obedience. Jesus ordained the Catholic and has promised to safeguard her teachings so that we can spend eternity with him. This is our goal in life – the pleasures that this world may have to offer will not compare with eternity with Jesus.

 

[YinYangMom]

Equinox:

So I am allowed to think homosexual but not act on the human feelings, thoughts, and emotions that go with them i.e. having a partner. Like any heterosexual male is. The question is simple am I allowed to be Catholic and Homosexual?

Just as a heterosexual is not allowed to indulge in lustful thoughts, neither is a homosexual.

We heterosexuals struggle with remaining chaste when society is inundating us with how free and wonderful sex is.

The challenge for all Catholics is how to put God first, keep our eyes on the Kingdom, instead of giving in to earthly temptations.

You’ve read the bible…mankind has always struggled with temptation since the Fall.

You are no different than the rest of us.
And you are not called to a different life than the rest of us.

Like all things of this earth, we are stewards of the gifts of God…that includes our bodies, our minds, and our souls. Our souls are contained within this body awaiting its return to God. We must take care to ensure it gets there for happiness only rests in His presence.

 

[mikew262]

fix:

Pedophilia is a crime? If one has those tendencies, yet never acts on them, is it a crime in some states?

Ok, one is potentially a crime if acted upon, still the other isn’t.

 

[kamz]

kaj3:

Equinox – I think you are making an assumption that if the Church doesn’t allow you to do what you want to do, then she doesn’t love or accept you. That is not true. It is precisely the opposite.

It’s like a mother who does not allow her child to touch a hot stove – the child may not understand why, but the mother knows he will be burned if he touches it. And so the mother makes a rule not to touch the stove out of love for her child.

When we disagree with the teachings of the Church, it no doubt takes a great amount of humility to follow her in obedience. Jesus ordained the Catholic and has promised to safeguard her teachings so that we can spend eternity with him. This is our goal in life – the pleasures that this world may have to offer will not compare with eternity with Jesus.

AMEN, You’ve hit it right on

 

[Equinox]

mike182d:

Why is pedophilia a crime?

Because it is against the law, homosexuality is not, we are not discussing paedophilia we are discussing homosexuality. to put them into the same context or even the same sentence is wrong, AS WE ARE ON ONE TOPIC NOT THE OTHER

 

[montanaman]

Equinox:

I was parents taught me the same in a catholic context, however I was born this way and my parents understand, they love me for who I am and have never had the bigoted view that being homosexual is a crime against the church or the state. All I am stating is if I choose to get married and partake in the act of sex does this mean I am not catholic for committing one sin (in my head) against God, when paedophiles and killers may be forgiven in the eyes of the church etc

There is no need to be forgiven for having the homosexual desires unless you actively entertain them. You are a Catholic in good standing with the Church if you work to avoid indulging in the thoughts/actions of homosexuality–just as heterosexuals with strong desires are if they don’t entertain such thoughts.

A homosexual Catholic marriage is impossible, however. Even if you found a schismatic priest (or priestess) willing to perform the ceremony, they would have no power or authority to do so. The marriage simply wouldn’t be valid, and any sexual activity “consummated” in it would be sinful.

I encourage you to look up the link posted above to Courage. That will be a much greater resource for you than this board.

 

[mikew262]

mike182d:

Why is pedophilia a crime?

See my answer above.

 

[mike182d]

Equinox:

Because it is against the law, homosexuality is not, we are not discussing paedophilia we are discussing homosexuality. to put them into the same context or even the same sentence is wrong, AS WE ARE ON ONE TOPIC NOT THE OTHER

That’s a circular argument. Naturally, a thing is a crime if it is against the law and it is against the law if it is a crime. That’s not what I was asking.

The question was, why was it made into law? What objective reasoning do we have to *make *pedophilia a crime?

There is a point to this and it is *very *relevant. I’m trying to be very Socratic about this and lead you to the necessary conclusion step by step.

 

[mike182d]

mikew262:

See my answer above.

Which answer?

 

[Equinox]

One thing I have noticed by reading all of you responses, you all have individual minds that work in different ways, and some people are more tolerant that others, others are well just bigots to any little thing. I will now sign off by saying, at the end of the day I am comfortable with who I am, I have a loving supporting family and friends, I am a good person, I believe that now more than ever, it is my life, if God at judgement day is not willing to accept me for who I am, then I guess I will just have to be a soul in infernal damnation.

Good Night and God Bless

P.s I will be back tomorrow so please carry on…

 

[YinYangMom]

Equinox:

in ‘his eyes’ two homosexuals that are married cannot partake in the act which expresses love for/ to the other individual, without fear of Infernal damnation.

It is mankind which has equated sex with love.

God IS love.
He expressed His love for us in two ways -

He became Man, like us so that He could guide us home to Him.

He suffered brutally, died, and rose from the dead, so that we could be with Him at the end of time.

Neither of those had anything to do with sex.

LOVE is giving oneself completely to the other…
For us Christians that other is only God…
Married people marry so that they can serve God by creating new life (two men and two women can never do that).
Single people serve God either through Holy Orders, or vocations, or through living celibate lives and helping those around them.

Always our hearts and minds are directed to our love and commitment to God, our Creator.

 

[setter]

Equinox:

One thing I have noticed by reading all of you responses, you all have individual minds that work in different ways, and some people are more tolerant that others, others are well just bigots to any little thing. I will now sign off by saying, at the end of the day I am comfortable with who I am, I have a loving supporting family and friends, I am a good person, I believe that now more than ever, it is my life, if God at judgement day is not willing to accept me for who I am, then I guess I will just have to be a soul in infernal damnation.

Good Night and God Bless

P.s I will be back tomorrow so please carry on…

Such a brave statement from such a young gentleman …ahhh, you have gotta love the brashness of youth.

God bless and keep an open mind and heart.

 

[mike182d]

Ok, I’m sorry, but I have to let off some steam here because this is far too frustrating…

Why is it like pulling teeth to get people to prove with logic why homosexuality should be accepted? If you *dare *question it you are an ignorant bigot. I hate having to accept something for no other reason than someone “feels” its right without having any reason for me to believe it. Every single time I’ve tried to ask a homosexual to defend their homosexuality, they shut-down completely and refuse to talk about it. I get challenged *all the time *on my Catholicism and since I know why I’m Catholic I have no problem when someone questions me.

sigh

 

[buffalo]

Equinox:

One thing I have noticed by reading all of you responses, you all have individual minds that work in different ways, and some people are more tolerant that others, others are well just bigots to any little thing. I will now sign off by saying, at the end of the day I am comfortable with who I am, I have a loving supporting family and friends, I am a good person, I believe that now more than ever, it is my life, if God at judgement day is not willing to accept me for who I am, then I guess I will just have to be a soul in infernal damnation.

Good Night and God Bless

P.s I will be back tomorrow so please carry on…

True Christian charity demands draternal correction with love. Posters are trying to guide you and show the true Catholic teachings.

Browse this site:
http://www.sbministries.org/
**Stephen Bennett Ministries, **

Stephen Bennett struggled with homosexuality until he was 28 years old. Alcoholic, bulimic and a drug addict, his destructive life style nearly killed him. Over 11 years actively as a promiscuous homosexual man with countless male partners, many of Stephen’s homosexual partners and friends are tragically dead from AIDS. Finally, one day while happily involved in a long term, committed relationship with a man he was in love with, Stephen was confronted by a Christian woman knocking at his door with a Bible in her hand. He would never be the same again.

That was over 16 years ago. Today at 42 years old, Stephen is happily married over 13 years to his beautiful wife Irene - a Christian woman - who knew Stephen when he was actively living as a homosexual man and never stopped praying for him. Stephen and Irene are the parents of two beautiful little children, a boy and a girl. Their passion and commitment – as a couple and a family – is to *make a difference *in the lives of millions worldwide with the Truth.

Stephen Bennett’s message is one of love, compassion and exhortation to the church: that we need to love and reach out to homosexual individuals as Christ would. Many have been guilty far too long of “hating the sinner, as well as the sin.”

Simply, SBM is boldly reaching out worldwide with the truth about homosexuality - and truly making a difference!

 

[YinYangMom]

Equinox:

However, I have not partaken in the act that we are referring. I believe in no sex before marriage. So what I am asking is in the future at some point when I get married to somebody of the same sex, moral values etc. Will I committing a sin by partaking in the act.

The act to which you are referring for married couples, is marital relations opening themselves up to the possibility of life being created by God through their physical union.

The act which you would be partaking in should you ‘marry’ another male is sodomy, and that has always been considered a grave sin. It is a sin of the flesh for the intent is only physical gratification not opening oneself up to God creating life through such union.

 

[LilyM]

mike182d:

That’s a circular argument. Naturally, a thing is a crime if it is against the law and it is against the law if it is a crime. That’s not what I was asking.

The question was, why was it made into law? What objective reasoning do we have to *make *pedophilia a crime?

There is a point to this and it is *very *relevant. I’m trying to be very Socratic about this and lead you to the necessary conclusion step by step.

The objective reasoning is surely that one of the partners is under the age of consent for sex - isn’t that the definition of pedophilia? Sexual acts involving a minor?

The reasoning behind an age of consent for sex is the same as the reasoning behind a minimum age for driving, smoking, voting … a person’s intellect has to be reasonably well-formed before they can indulge in certain behaviours. This is due to the inherent risks involved and high level of responsibility required.

If we had under-18s voting then Ronald McDonald or Britney Spears would very likely be US President. Likewise a minor isn’t mature enough to properly consent to sex. No valid consent = rape regardless of the age of the participants. It could be argued that some minors are mature enough to participate, very simply it’s too difficult to assess them on a case-by-case basis, so blanket rules are made about minimum ages.

 

[Darrel]

Originally Posted by Equinox
*One thing I have noticed by reading all of you responses, you all have individual minds that work in different ways, and some people are more tolerant that others, others are well just bigots to any little thing. I will now sign off by saying, at the end of the day I am comfortable with who I am, I have a loving supporting family and friends, I am a good person, I believe that now more than ever, it is my life, if God at judgement day is not willing to accept me for who I am, then I guess I will just have to be a soul in infernal damnation. *

Good Night and God Bless

P.s I will be back tomorrow so please carry on

Are you searching for tolerance or moral acceptance? I can name a hundred things that are worse sins then being gay. Love is not a feeling, it is a choice, you are choosing to love as a homosexual because you choose to believe you are born that way.

You can also choose to accept that it is wrong and seek help in correcting your same sex attraction. I happen to have a vile temper and an addiction to coffee and cigarettes these things are also wrong. I am choosing to control all three along with a million other things like impatience a potentialy judgemental attitude and the occaisional hatred of sick people in this world. I may be worse then you as a sinner. Yet I will face the truth. If you are Catholic then you know you will face it anyway. You may say ‘whatever’ now as your attitude towards damantion but we both know if you were standing before God right now you might feel a bit different. If you are looking for truth look to Christ and not a world full of lies. The same secular opinion makers who say it’s ok to be gay will tell you it’s right to kill the unborn.

-D

 

[mike182d]

LilyM:

The objective reasoning is surely that one of the partners is under the age of consent for sex - isn’t that the definition of pedophilia? Sexual acts involving a minor?

That’s our definition, yes. But most of society in antiquity did not believe this. It was common in Rome to marry girls who were 12 years old. Why? Because life expectancy was so short and infant mortality rates were so high that in order to have as many children as possible, you had to marry a girl as soon as she was able to bear children. I don’t believe we should do this today, but I’m just trying to point out that our definitions of “minor” and “of age” are generally arbitrary. Why is a 21 year old “of age” to drink? What makes an 18 year old any different from a 17 year old? These aren’t universal maxims.

The reasoning behind an age of consent for sex is the same as the reasoning behind a minimum age for driving, smoking, voting … a person’s intellect has to be reasonably well-formed before they can indulge in certain behaviours. This is due to the inherent risks involved and high level of responsibility required.

If “well-formed intellect” is the reason for setting age limits, they need to set the age for consent at 30. If you’ve ever been to college, you’ll understand.

If we had under-18s voting then Ronald McDonald or Britney Spears would very likely be US President. Likewise a minor isn’t mature enough to properly consent to sex. No valid consent = rape regardless of the age of the participants. It could be argued that some minors are mature enough to participate, very simply it’s too difficult to assess them on a case-by-case basis, so blanket rules are made about minimum ages.

What if a child *did *consent?

Look, I’m not saying pedophilia is ok. What I’m saying is that there is a reason why pedophilia is considered sexual deviancy *beyond *written law and whatever that principle is must also apply to *any *form of sexual deviancy, necessarily.

 

[kamz]

Darrel:

Are you searching for tolerance or moral acceptance? I can name a hundred things that are worse sins then being gay. Love is not a feeling, it is a choice, you are choosing to love as a homosexual because you choose to believe you are born that way.

You can also choose to accept that it is wrong and seek help in correcting your same sex attraction. I happen to have a vile temper and an addiction to coffee and ciggarettes these things are also wrong. I am choosing to control all three along with a million other things like impatience a potentialy judgemental attitude and the occaisional hatred of sick people in this world. I may be worse then you as a sinner. Yet I will face the truth. If you are Catholic then you know you will face it anyway. You may say ‘whatever’ now as your attitude towards damantion but we both know if you were standing before God right now you might feel a bit different. If you are looking for truth look to Christ and not a world full of lies. The same secular opinion makers who say it’s ok to be gay will tell you it’s right to kill the unborn.

-D

Awesome post, so true, so true!!!

 

[Alterum]

mike182d:

That’s a circular argument. Naturally, a thing is a crime if it is against the law and it is against the law if it is a crime. That’s not what I was asking.

The question was, why was it made into law? What objective reasoning do we have to *make *pedophilia a crime?

There is a point to this and it is *very *relevant. I’m trying to be very Socratic about this and lead you to the necessary conclusion step by step.

I thought you were making a different (and quite worthwhile) point; namely, that pedophilia, insofar as mere sexual attraction is concerned, is not a crime. Neither is homosexuality. One can think about molesting children or violating a same-sex “partner” as much as he wishes, and he will not be arrested for it.

Like homosexuality, pedophilia is a psychological disorder that probably arises from both genetic and environmental factors. It is fairly common knowledge that a much larger percentage of homosexuals are pedophiles, than heterosexuals. I do not say this to be degrading to homosexuals; I think it validates the point that the two are somewhat related psychological disorders.

Of course, just because a pedophile feels a perverse sexual attraction to children does not mean he has any right to go ahead and have sexual relations with a child, even if the child consents and even if both parties think what they are doing is an “act of love”. This is illicit in both a moral and civil sense.

Likewise, just because a homosexual feels a perverse sexual attraction to members of the same sex, does not mean he has any right to go ahead and have sexual relations with a member of the same gender, even if his “partner” consents and even if both parties think what they are doing is an “act of love.” While this is not illicit in a civil sense, it certainly is illicit in a moral sense.

Finally, all sexual relations outside of marriage are by definition gravely sinful. Since same-sex marriage is theologically impossible according to our Catholic beliefs, any sexual relations between two members of the same sex – regardless of civil marriage status – are unequivocally and inherently sinful.

Equinox, if you wish to serve God above your own sexual desires, I urge you to seriously consider the teachings of the Church on this matter. Pray, talk to your priest, and get psychological help if you desire it.