I am Potestant asking about the saints

  • Thread starter Thread starter JesusFreak16
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
JesusFreak16:
Hey,
Don’t you guys believe that only God can judge? If so, then only God would know who is in heaven. The Church is made of people. Human people. Human people who can make mistakes.

God’s Peace~ Lisa
:ehh:
Click to expand...
Discerning and judging are not the same thing:

dis·cern ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-sûrn, -zûrn)
v. dis·cerned, dis·cern·ing, dis·cerns
v. tr.
To perceive with the eyes or intellect; detect.
To recognize or comprehend mentally.
To perceive or recognize as being different or distinct; distinguish. See Synonyms at see1.

v. intr.
To perceive differences.

judge ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jj)
v. judged, judg·ing, judg·es
v. tr.
To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration: judge heights; judging character.

Law. To hear and decide on in a court of law; try: judge a case.
Obsolete. To pass sentence on; condemn.
To act as one appointed to decide the winners of: judge an essay contest.
To determine or declare after consideration or deliberation.
Informal. To have as an opinion or assumption; suppose: I judge you’re right.
Bible. To govern; rule. Used of an ancient Israelite leader.

v. intr.
To form an opinion or evaluation.
To act or decide as a judge.

Peace
 
40.png
JesusFreak16:
It is true that we are shown that Christianity is the right faith, but other things are not as simple (if that is simple at all). What I’m saying is that you can’t say how “holy” a person is because you are not omni-present, so you can’t know if one of the saints sinned quietly in his/her room. Only God would know.
If you think God revealed that to you, you may be wrong as we are all human and imperfect.

God’s Peace~
Lisa
Click to expand...
Being a Saint doesn’t mean that he led a *sinless *life during his earthly life. There are only two human beings who led perfectly sinless lives, no other. Some of the greatest saints of the Church were great sinners. Again, I’ll point you to St Paul.

That being said, the Church dicerns that, by God’s mercy, a person – upon his deat – is sanctified by God’s grace and enters Heaven. Further, he us worthy as exemplary figure and spiritual hero and worthy of public veneration. Hence, the Church’s declaration of he canonisation.
 
40.png
homer:
Hey Lisa good point! The Catholic church says that noone can be sure of his salvation and yet it talks about Saints who are for sure Saints!
Click to expand...
You get us wrong.

A person cannot be absolutely sure of his eventual sanctification upon death while still living on this earth. But upon death the soul is judged and his fate is sealed for eternity.

One who is in Heaven will always be in Heaven. Once the soul is there, the assurance is there. Nothing can separate him from God.

That’s why the Church only declares Saints people who are already deceased. Now, we can use the word “saints” and “saintly” to describe certain God-like qualities of men. But a “Saint” by definition is one who is already eternally secured in Heaven.
 
40.png
JesusFreak16:
Hey,
Don’t you guys believe that only God can judge? If so, then only God would know who is in heaven. The Church is made of people. Human people. Human people who can make mistakes.

God’s Peace~ Lisa
:ehh:
Click to expand...
Lisa,

Indeed only God can judge, but God, through Christ, delegated to the Church’s first leader’s the power to bind and to loose. Indeed the Sacred Scriptures read

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

So if the apostles have the power to declare something binding on both heaven and eath.

However, the church is not juding someone a saint. The church is rather determining that someone’s life is worthy of imitation. I.E. They are the success stories of the life of faith.
 
40.png
homer:
Hey Lisa good point! The Catholic church says that noone can be sure of his salvation and yet it talks about Saints who are for sure Saints!
Click to expand...
Hey! Look who crawled back out of the wood-work, our resident hit-and-run anti-Catholic! Long time no see Homer. Been lurking? Or are you and Lisa the same person? 😃
 
40.png
Fidelis:
Hey! Look who crawled back out of the wood-work, our resident hit-and-run anti-Catholic! Long time no see Homer. Been lurking? Or are you and Lisa the same person? 😃
Click to expand...
May you be able someday to take out all this hate from your heart, in Jesus name.
 
40.png
homer:
May you be able someday to take out all this hate from your heart, in Jesus name.
Click to expand...
Pardon me, Homer, but this wonderful person, rather than going to get misconceptions from people like you, are actually coming to learn the Catholic faith FROM CATHOLICS! 🙂 The people here are doing their best to answer questions as they come. The only hater that’s in here, seems to be you. You might want to get all that anti-Catholicism out of your heart in Jesus’ name, and then try to fill it up with the truth.

Robert H. 👍
 
40.png
JesusFreak16:
What I’m saying is that you can’t say how “holy” a person is because you are not omni-present, so you can’t know if one of the saints sinned quietly in his/her room.
Click to expand...
To me this is the best thing about having the Saints have such importance in the church - the more you find out about them and see how they struggled with sin and the hard things in life, in the same way that we all do, you can identify with them.

Since reading the Office of the Hours lately it’s great how much more I’ve found out about the saints! Similarly going to daily mass - you really pick up on this.

Vince
 
“By their works shall you know them.” Quote

Do you agree with this statement of Christ.
 
your question will be answered one day friend.
the path is narrow, whom will lead you?
The christ that you have created or the Son of God?
this is the more profound question one might ask. don’t you think?
when you have fully submitted to Christ our Lord, you may one day find your answer
 
40.png
JesusFreak16:
Hey,
Don’t you guys believe that only God can judge? If so, then only God would know who is in heaven. The Church is made of people. Human people. Human people who can make mistakes.

God’s Peace~ Lisa
:ehh:
Click to expand...
Hello Lisa, nice to meet you. Surely you have known people in Christ, they have that air about them that is unmistakable. Love emmenates from them and you want to be near them, because they make you feel that good, and you know God is running their lives.

You said something about what they do in their bedrooms…and yes we are all sinners, but for me that is what is so awesome about being a Catholic…reconcilliation. Pope John Paul went to confession every week, and so while yes…we are all sinners, we are also Forgiven, and so if you confess your sins regularly, and really try not to repeat, you too have a chance at being a Saint!

It is a long process publically calling someone out into Sainthood. Lots of investigation and testamonies. There are signs and Miracles documented…and so we can be quite certain that said person is a saint.

I suspect that their are many Saints not recognized officially. They go their entire lives living for Jesus and TRULY loving their neighbor, They could be Catholic or Protestant…they are GOOD and pleasing to God but they won’t be noticed until they Die…and the ultimate Loving Judge will reward them for their Perserverence…they ran the race hard and won!

Peace in Christ…lets all work for Sainthood
 
40.png
JesusFreak16:
Hey,
Don’t you guys believe that only God can judge? If so, then only God would know who is in heaven. The Church is made of people. Human people. Human people who can make mistakes.

God’s Peace~ Lisa
:ehh:
Click to expand...
That saints don’t sit in judgement of us. Only God does. So, we are in agreement there. There are some Protestants that believe that when we die, we will care nothing about this world. Catholics do not view death the same. We believe that the Saints in heaven do still care about us and can see what is happening on earth. Just as I might ask my brother to pray for me, I can ask a Saint to pray to God for me.
 
40.png
JesusFreak16:
Hey,
Don’t you guys believe that only God can judge? If so, then only God would know who is in heaven. The Church is made of people. Human people. Human people who can make mistakes.

God’s Peace~ Lisa
:ehh:
Click to expand...
I think that your question is actually by what authority does the Catholic church decide who is a saint. It is a good question.

When I was a protestant I was bothered by Mathew 16:18 Truely I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

It sounded as though the Lord Jesus was giving those disciples an awful lot of power. It almost seemed presumptious to allow them to bind an loosened things on earth and heaven. I never had a pastor speak on these verses.

Our church is apostlic(SOmeone correct me if I have the wrong term) that means that its leaders are the spiritual succesors to the apostles. This is where its authority comes from.

The process of cannonization is long. The church doesn’t say hey, Sam was a nice guy. You’re a saint, buddy. The church has a process that includes the presence of documented miracles. Because the church comes at the all process as a skeptic, it can be tough to have someone declared a Saint. The church also acknowldeges that it might miss a few people. So there are more saints in heaven then we know about.
 
the process of cantonization takes years. often what happens, someone more knowledgeable than me correct me if im wrong, but as part of the process, three miracles must be completed in hte name of the holy deceased person. for example, if so and so was being considered for cantonization, then at least three miracles must be documented that were accomplished by someone praying for their intersession, for example, healings. these miracles must be examined by non catholic professionals to ensure there is no earthly explanation. if this and other processes are accomplished, the church declares that it is right to assume this person now resides with God.

other types of saints could include people like baptized infants who died. a baptized infant who died would not have had the opportunity to commit a sin, and therefore must be with God. hope that helps!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top