i am presbyterian i want to convert ..

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the looming mass retirement of the baby boomers (and our responsibility to provide medical insurance to them). This impending crisis is actually much more dire than social security will be.
This is why people should have been and/or should be having more babies. 😃 Because now we have a problem (even in our country, and we pay a lot of taxes already) trying to rectify a situation that is very lopsided, in that, we have a workforce that is smaller than the amount of people who will be retiring. We in the Western world need to reproduce ourselves, and I’m telling you now, it isn’t so bad in America as it will be in Europe (whose governments are more socialistic) as their birthrate is below replacement level (I think in America it’s still at above 2 children). Most of them will have to fix this problem through immigration, in order to keep their socialistic programs alive.
 
This is why people should have been and/or should be having more babies. 😃 Because now we have a problem (even in our country, and we pay a lot of taxes already) trying to rectify a situation that is very lopsided, in that, we have a workforce that is smaller than the amount of people who will be retiring. We in the Western world need to reproduce ourselves, and I’m telling you now, it isn’t so bad in America as it will be in Europe (whose governments are more socialistic) as their birthrate is below replacement level (I think in America it’s still at above 2 children). Most of them will have to fix this problem through immigration, in order to keep their socialistic programs alive.
I actually once felt that way … but now tend to disagree with that theory mostly for economic reasons. The fact is people should be able to finance their own retirement. In other words we can have a social security system, even a compulsory government ran pension system of some sort. However, the system needs to invest in things (even if just zero or near zero risk fixed income, government issued securities like municipal bonds or treasuries). Moreover, monies from our retirement system cannot be commingled with our general funds.

Even if the government ran the system (and it weren’t structured as a completely private account scheme where the individual gets to choose what financial firm manages his or her money) it would still work, as long as the underlying investments earned enough (on average over the 20 - 40 year life of the fund) to support an individuals retirement. All the studies I’ve seen indicate that retirees would fare much better under such a system (even if their money earned a mere 3 - 4% it’s much better than current earnings, which is about negative 1% because today the fund is essentially structured like a ponzie scheme and loses money on inflation).

As for Medicare … that can only be fixed as part of an overall restructuring of our medical delivery system. I don’t advocate doing away with private insurance or coming down hard on pharmaceutical companies (or other sources of innovation and economic investment). Rather I actually like the French model (or at least a hybrid version of it). I do think government can centralize medical records and perhaps even billing with some sort of quasi-government/private organization (something like Network Solutions used to be with the internet – a model we already know works).

If Obama could get these sorts of things done & aggressively move us toward ethanol (and perhaps even ā€œeventuallyā€ hydrogen produced from ethanol, which IMO will be the ultimate solution) then I’d vote for him in a third term if it were possible (well maybe not, I love the Constitution too much).
 
I actually once felt that way … but now tend to disagree with that theory mostly for economic reasons. The fact is people should be able to finance their own retirement. In other words we can have a social security system, even a compulsory government ran pension system of some sort. However, the system needs to invest in things (even if just zero or near zero risk fixed income, government issued securities like municipal bonds or treasuries). Moreover, monies from our retirement system cannot be commingled with our general funds.

Are you refering to what we Canadians call RRSPs (registered retirement savings plan) wherein we can invest an amount (sometimes so we can avoid paying a higher income tax) which we can use later for retirement purposes, is this what you mean?

Even if the government ran the system (and it weren’t structured as a completely private account scheme where the individual gets to choose what financial firm manages his or her money) it would still work, as long as the underlying investments earned enough (on average over the 20 - 40 year life of the fund) to support an individuals retirement. All the studies I’ve seen indicate that retirees would fare much better under such a system (even if their money earned a mere 3 - 4% it’s much better than current earnings, which is about negative 1% because today the fund is essentially structured like a ponzie scheme and loses money on inflation).

uuummmh, Francis, I don’t know what you’re talking about? Non comprende.

As for Medicare … that can only be fixed as part of an overall restructuring of our medical delivery system. I don’t advocate doing away with private insurance or coming down hard on pharmaceutical companies (or other sources of innovation and economic investment). Rather I actually like the French model (or at least a hybrid version of it). I do think government can centralize medical records and perhaps even billing with some sort of quasi-government/private organization (something like Network Solutions used to be with the internet – a model we already know works).

There is talk here (in Canada) of having a two tiered system (but its just talk I don’t think it will ever happen), which basically means keep the Public funded health care, but provide Private as well. Our public health care system has quite a few problems.

If Obama could get these sorts of things done & aggressively move us toward ethanol (and perhaps even ā€œeventuallyā€ hydrogen produced from ethanol, which IMO will be the ultimate solution) then I’d vote for him in a third term if it were possible (well maybe not, I love the Constitution too much).
Have you ever considered being a politician?
 
Have you ever considered being a politician?
when I’m older … who knows (I might have to lie and say I’m religious though, and it’s becoming exceedingly difficult to cover my tracks, although I could probably get elected in places like NYC, San Francisco, Seattle, and maybe Austin pretty easily without being a theist). šŸ™‚

Our social security system is basically the equivalent of your pension system & yes I’m well aware of the problems in Canadian health care (not even our democrats here would dare propose such a loopy system). The problem our republican party is having right now is democrats became smart and market savvy. No longer do they ignore corporate interests (or view business as an opposing interest). Even where they rub up against business they’ve at least managed to change the perception of their party. At the same time the republicans lost their street cred insofar as being the party of low taxes and spending (and they became a little over zealous with their almost blind support of religious interests).

Anyways … I guess this is WAY off topic šŸ™‚
 
Dear josie, humble and jam,

I just wanted to say that I enjoy your discussions – except for the 90s bands (too young for me). I don’t understand all that is discussed, but I can see that you are a good bunch, and your discussions tend to be charitable, which is not all that common on the boards.

God bless,
Dan
 
when I’m older … who knows (I might have to lie and say I’m religious though, and it’s becoming exceedingly difficult to cover my tracks, although I could probably get elected in places like NYC, San Francisco, Seattle, and maybe Austin pretty easily without being a theist). šŸ™‚

Our social security system is basically the equivalent of your pension system & yes I’m well aware of the problems in Canadian health care (not even our democrats here would dare propose such a loopy system). The problem our republican party is having right now is democrats became smart and market savvy. No longer do they ignore corporate interests (or view business as an opposing interest). Even where they rub up against business they’ve at least managed to change the perception of their party. At the same time the republicans lost their street cred insofar as being the party of low taxes and spending (and they became a little over zealous with their almost blind support of religious interests).

Anyways … I guess this is WAY off topic šŸ™‚
Francis, we’ve been way off topic along time ago! Anyways, if you do consider to be a politician, please don’t be like other politicians and lie. The last thing you want to do is misrepresent yourself. Keep your honour intact, I hate liars. Anyways with your background, having served your country you might stand a good chance of being a successful politician.
 
Dear josie, humble and jam,

I just wanted to say that I enjoy your discussions – except for the 90s bands (too young for me). I don’t understand all that is discussed, but I can see that you are a good bunch, and your discussions tend to be charitable, which is not all that common on the boards.

God bless,
Dan
It’s very nice of you to say so, please do join in on our discussions, the more the merrier. God bless you too.
 
Francis, we’ve been way off topic along time ago! Anyways, if you do consider to be a politician, please don’t be like other politicians and lie. The last thing you want to do is misrepresent yourself. Keep your honour intact, I hate liars. Anyways with your background, having served your country you might stand a good chance of being a successful politician.
come on now … while I consider myself an honest guy, lying is part of life. Parents lie to their kids all the time (and for good reason). You can say what you will about hypocrisy … but it works (House made this point in tonight’s show pretty eloquently). šŸ™‚
 
come on now … while I consider myself an honest guy, lying is part of life. Parents lie to their kids all the time (and for good reason). You can say what you will about hypocrisy … but it works (House made this point in tonight’s show pretty eloquently). šŸ™‚
Parents lying to their children are more than likely commiting the kind of lies we consider ā€œwhite liesā€. The kind of lie you’re considering is an extremely dishonest one. You can’t lie about believing in God, so you can get more people to vote for you. That would be a dishonouring thing to do. I do not think you would do such a thing, Francis. You should never do such a thing, Francis. I would be very disappointed if I knew you were capable of lying to this degree. Lying will get you no where (it may at first) because the truth always comes out. So, will you still consider lying? And as for hypocrisy, everyone plays the hypocrite, because we don’t see our foibles as easily as we see it in others, however, hypocrisy is not a virtue, so you need to ask yourself that if you are being a hypocrite shouldn’t you try not to be, for the sake of being a good person. And House is just a crotchety old curmudgeon who needs God!! 😃
 
Parents lying to their children are more than likely commiting the kind of lies we consider ā€œwhite liesā€. The kind of lie you’re considering is an extremely dishonest one. You can’t lie about believing in God, so you can get more people to vote for you. That would be a dishonouring thing to do. I do not think you would do such a thing, Francis. You should never do such a thing, Francis. I would be very disappointed if I knew you were capable of lying to this degree. Lying will get you no where (it may at first) because the truth always comes out. So, will you still consider lying? And as for hypocrisy, everyone plays the hypocrite, because we don’t see our foibles as easily as we see it in others, however, hypocrisy is not a virtue, so you need to ask yourself that if you are being a hypocrite shouldn’t you try not to be, for the sake of being a good person. And House is just a crotchety old curmudgeon who needs God!! 😃
well, fortunately I have no immediate plans of becoming a politician (so I won’t be testing the theory). Honestly … I don’t know what I do. I can’t say for certain I wouldn’t skew the truth if it was easier (and if it gave me a better shot of winning).

Sure I can claim the moral high ground now since I’m not in the situation … but I honestly couldn’t say what I would do exactly?

You know it’s always the guys who are so sure of themselves & claim the fictitious moral high ground who wind up falling on their face. At least I admit I don’t know how I would handle that sort of situation (at least that way I’ll be more apprehensive of my own behavior if the time really does come).

Anyways … I gotta get some sleep!
 
well, fortunately I have no immediate plans of becoming a politician (so I won’t be testing the theory). Honestly … I don’t know what I do. I can’t say for certain I wouldn’t skew the truth if it was easier (and if it gave me a better shot of winning).

Sure I can claim the moral high ground now since I’m not in the situation … but I honestly couldn’t say what I would do exactly?

You know it’s always the guys who are so sure of themselves & claim the fictitious moral high ground who wind up falling on their face. At least I admit I don’t know how I would handle that sort of situation (at least that way I’ll be more apprehensive of my own behavior if the time really does come).

Anyways … I gotta get some sleep!
Francis this is not about what you think you will or will not do, but what you should and should not do. And Francis, I have yet to fall on my face, so when I tell you that you should not act dishonestly I am not playing the hypocrite. Integrity matters. Being honest matters. Winning an election doesn’t matter. It’s who you are not what you are that’s important.
 
Francis this is not about what you think you will or will not do, but what you should and should not do. And Francis, I have yet to fall on my face, so when I tell you that you should not act dishonestly I am not playing the hypocrite. Integrity matters. Being honest matters. Winning an election doesn’t matter. It’s who you are not what you are that’s important.
Hmmmm, Vince Lombardi or Jesus? Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing!

I’m going with Vince (I know he was real) 😃
 
Hmmmm, Vince Lombardi or Jesus? Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing!

I’m going with Vince (I know he was real) 😃
So, basically, what you’re saying is that you need to lie in order to win, whereas Vince Lombardi never had to. And how can you say winning is the only thing that matters, that is so superficial. When you were a practicing Catholic, didn’t you see these things (lying for gain and such) as being wrong?

You sound cynical at times, too worldly, like you’ve forgotten what really matters.

P.S. What exactly do you do as a lawyer working for the government? I’m not sure if this question is silly or not.
 
So, basically, what you’re saying is that you need to lie in order to win, whereas Vince Lombardi never had to. And how can you say winning is the only thing that matters, that is so superficial. When you were a practicing Catholic, didn’t you see these things (lying for gain and such) as being wrong?

You sound cynical at times, too worldly, like you’ve forgotten what really matters.

P.S. What exactly do you do as a lawyer working for the government? I’m not sure if this question is silly or not.
I’m sorry Francis, I shouldn’t have said this. I’m feeling a little guilty right now. 😦
 
With respect Holly there’s no first century precedent for the Papacy. Rome came to dominate Christianity because it dominated the world when Christianity was invented. In fact the only bishop that scholars believe Peter probably did anoint was Ignatius of Antioch. However, we have writings from Ignatius, Polycarp, and Clement … none of which indicate anything beyond either a Presbyterian or Episcopal governing structure for the church (with no lead bishop at Rome).

The tradition you point to didn’t emerge until centuries after these men lived. Take Pope Linus as an example, the second bishop of Rome (allegedly after Peter occupied the chair). There’s no evidence or even direct claims or writings or anything that indicates Peter did any more than preach in Rome, just as he preached in many other cities and anointed bishops (or presbyters) elsewhere. The Roman church claimed for itself the primacy of Peter, it’s not something that can be directly supported or even logically inferred from any apostolic precedent, writing, or anything.

All the volumes of information the church disseminates on this topic doesn’t change the basic root facts. The papacy finds support from only the internal claims of the RCC, and not from any discernible historical source.
You are applying a too rigorous approach to History, that not even Historians themselves would consider appropriate. History tells us through St. Iranaeus that there was an unbroken line of Popes since St. Peter till that time for which St. Iranaues wrote his claim in 180 A.D. . For you to discount this because you state only the RCC has stated such is wrong. The RC is a credible source of information as we were through her enabled to understand much of early Christianity. How could a Historian of this time period piece together early Christianity on the basis for which you approach it? It could not been done without taking into consideration what She (the Church) had to say (through countless documented letters and such).

The Unbroken Line of Popes Throughout the Ages:

It is by far the longest continuous line of succession of any religious institution on earth.
By the time that the last book of the Bible (Revelation) was written, the Catholic Church was already on its fifth Pope.

St. Irenaeus listed the first 14 Popes in ā€œAgainst Heresiesā€, 3:3:3, 180 AD

  • St. Peter (32-67), Matthew 16:18
  • St. Linus (67-76), 2Timothy 4:21
  • St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
  • St. Clement I (88-97), Philippians 4:3
  • St. Evaristus (97-105)
  • St. Alexander I (105-115)
  • St. Sixtus I (115-125)
  • St. Telesphorus (125-136)
  • St. Hyginus (136-140)
  • St. Pius I (140-155)

  • St. Anicetus (155-166)
  • St. Soter (166-175)
  • St. Eleutherius (175-189)
  • St. Victor I (189-199)
  • St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
  • St. Callistus I (217-22)
  • St. Urban I (222-30)
  • St. Pontain (230-35)
  • St. Anterus (235-36)
  • St. Fabian (236-50) . . . . . . .
Early Church Fathers Recognized Papal Primacy and Succession

Clement of Rome, about 96, writing to Corinth about this disunity, ā€œBut if any disobey the word spoken by him, Peter, through us.ā€ Remember Linus, Cletus, Clement, Sixtus? Those were the first Popes.

Irenaeus, writing in the 2nd Century says, ā€œAnyone who wished to discern the truth may see in every Church in the whole world, the Apostolic succession clear and manifest.ā€ We saw that in Acts 1. I mean, if Judas’ office when left vacant is filled by a successor, then why should we be scandalized and lose our faith if a Pope is a scoundrel? You know, you may say, ā€œThe Pope shouldn’t be a scoundrel.ā€ I’d say, ā€œYeah and amen.ā€ But Jesus knew that it wasn’t going to be human strength and human authority that would put it all together for the Church. That’s why He chose a Judas in the first place, to assure our hearts that no matter who was in the Apostolic seat, whether it’s Peter or the other Apostles, his Bishops, it’s Jesus’ omnipotent love for His family that will see us through to the truth, no matter what may come.

Irenaeus goes on and says, ā€œWe can enumerate those who were appointed as bishops in the churches by the Apostles and their successors down to our own day, but as it would be very long in a book of this kind to enumerate the successors of all through the churches, I will point out the Apostolic tradition in faith announced to mankind.ā€ And it goes on. Speaking about the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul at Rome – I won’t read the whole quote, it goes on, but there also we see Iraneaus in the 2nd Century underscoring the Bishops as the successors to the Apostles and the Bishop of Rome, in particular, as the successor to Peter.

Tertullian in the late 100’s and the early 200’s A.D. said, ā€œWas anything withheld from Peter who was called the Rock on which the Church should be built, who also obtained the keys to the kingdom of heaven with the power of binding and loosing in heaven and earth?ā€

Origen, in the late 100’s spoke of Peter first because, ā€œHe was more honored than the rest.ā€

St. Cyprian spoke of the Roman Church founded on Peter who fixed his chair in Rome. He speaks of the Church in Rome as our Mother Church, ā€œthe root of universality and Catholicity.ā€

to be continued . . .
 
Hilary in the 300’s speaks of the foundation of the Church on the Rock from which the Church was built. In other words, the early Church Fathers recognized this. The Protestant historian, Goodspeed, in his history book says, ā€œThe claim of primacy among the bishops for its head began under Victor in the 2nd Century and progressed under Calistus who claimed the power of the keys and reached a peak under Stephen in the 3rd Century, who professed to occupy the chair of St. Peter.ā€ Now even Cyprian, when he opposed Stephen as Pope, didn’t oppose authority but opposed his opinions. Then finally, because Cyprian is St. Cyprian, he gave in to the Pope which is why he became a saint. St. Cyprian says, ā€œA primacy is given to Peter and it is thus made clear that there is but one Church and one Chair.ā€

I have about thirty quotes from a Syriac saint and Father, St. Ephraim. He is the one who just reaches to the clouds for words to describe the authority of Peter and his successors in the Sea of Rome. I don’t have time to go through these all, but I recommend a three- volume work written by a Professor Jurgens, The Faith of the Early Fathers, and it goes through all the Fathers and the many, many things they said to show that they recognize this authority in the Pope. Augustine, for instance, ā€œEven if some traitor crept into this order of Bishops which is drawn from Peter, himself, up to Anastasius who now occupies the same See, he would not prejudice the Church.ā€ He speaks of the cathedre Petri.

When you look at St. Augustine, a great saint and Father that the Protestants revere, Augustine had more things to say about the Popes as successors to Peter with all of his plenary authority than almost anybody else in the first seven centuries of the Church. It’s astonishing. Augustine said, ā€œWho is ignorant that the chief Apostolate is to be preferred to any Episcopate?ā€ Of the dignity of Peter he says, ā€œin whom the primacy of the Apostles shone forth with excelling grace.ā€

catholic-pages.com/pope/hahn.asp
 
You are applying a too rigorous approach to History, that not even Historians themselves would consider appropriate. History tells us through St. Iranaeus that there was an unbroken line of Popes since St. Peter till that time for which St. Iranaues wrote his claim in 180 A.D. . For you to discount this because you state only the RCC has stated such is wrong. The RC is a credible source of information as we were through her enabled to understand much of early Christianity. How could a Historian of this time period piece together early Christianity on the basis for which you approach it? It could not been done without taking into consideration what She (the Church) had to say (through countless documented letters and such).
Good response … but in fairness Irenaeus only affirmed that Linus was the first ā€œBishopā€ of Rome … and also created the concept of apostolic succession (in a sense, though not exactly in the same way it’s viewed today). During Irenaeus’ time Christendom was not governed by a central authority in Rome. Indeed during his debates with the Gnostic’s he pointed to the mutual agreement among ā€œall the apostolic churchesā€ concerning core matters as evidence supporting his position (though there was occasional disagreement in very minor areas of doctrine … but that’s another story & not worth talking about really).

Comparatively though at that time the church was very united in doctrine, and the amazing thing was they didn’t need a Pope (indeed the bishop at Rome wasn’t even viewed as a first among equals, he was just the bishop of Rome). It was in unanimity where they believed infallibility was found (i.e. Episcopal councils); and this idea was most certainly supported (perhaps even promulgated) by St. Iraneaus.

Peter was Peter … there’s no logical indication by scripture that the idea of a Peter should live on in perpetuity. He was the rock (of faith that according to Christ was given by god), he carried forward Christ’s mission to build the church (along with Paul). He validated Paul’s ministry and apostleship. There’s many ways Peter lived up to his role, but there’s just no support IMO for the RCC’s idea of a papacy.

Indeed the schism was the beginning of the end for Christian unity; and even more than that it marked the slide away from doctrine that can reasonably be said to represent the apostolic vision. As I’ve said … if a Christian desires truth, consistency, sound doctrine, etc. they won’t find it all in one place. It’s now sprinkled throughout Christendom, so you have to do your homework.

If you really believe in a god & in Jesus Christ then I suppose one church is just as good as the other (within reason of course … I confine application of this to more liberal mainline churches, you know people who don’t feel the need to handle snakes and engage in other bizarre practices or don’t live like a cabal).
 
Comparatively though at that time the church was very united in doctrine, and the amazing thing was they didn’t need a Pope (indeed the bishop at Rome wasn’t even viewed as a first among equals, he was just the bishop of Rome). It was in unanimity where they believed infallibility was found (i.e. Episcopal councils); and this idea was most certainly supported (perhaps even promulgated) by St. Iraneaus.

**Peter was Peter … there’s no logical indication by scripture that the idea of a Peter should live on in perpetuity. He was the rock (of faith that according to Christ was given by god), he carried forward Christ’s mission to build the church (along with Paul). He validated Paul’s ministry and apostleship. There’s many ways Peter lived up to his role, but there’s just no support IMO for the RCC’s idea of a papacy. **
One of the greatest Protestant Biblical scholars of the century supports this – W. F. Albright, in his Anchor Bible Commentary on Matthew. I opened it up. I was surprised to see, ā€œPeter as the Rock will be the foundation of the future community, the church. Jesus here uses Aramaic and so only the Aramaic word which would serve His purpose. In view of the background in verse 19, one must dismiss as confessional interpretation any attempt to see this rock as the faith or the confession of Peter.ā€ In other words, Professor Albright is admitting as a Protestant that there is a bias in Protestant anti- Catholic interpreters who try to make Jesus’ reference to the rock point only to Peter’s faith or confession. ā€œTo deny the pre-eminent position of Peter,ā€ Albright says, ā€œamong the disciples or in the early Christian community is a denial of the evidence. The interest in Peter’s failures and vacillations does not detract from this pre- eminence, rather it emphasizes it. Had Peter been a lesser figure, his behavior would have been of far less consequence. Precisely because Peter is pre-eminent and is the foundation stone of the Church that his mistakes are in a sense so important, but his mistakes never correspond to his teachings as the Prince of the Apostles.ā€ We will see."

Albright goes on in his commentary to speak about the keys of the kingdom that Jesus entrusted to Peter. Here’s what he says, ā€œIsaiah 22, verse 15, undoubtedly lies behind this saying of Jesus. The keys are the symbol of authority and Father Roland DeVoe rightly sees here the same authority vested in the vicar, the master of the house, the chamberlain of the royal household in ancient Israel. In Isaiah 22 Eliakim is described as having the same authority.ā€

Now let’s just stop here and ask, ā€œWhat is he talking about?ā€ I think it’s simple. Albright is saying that Jesus in giving to Peter not only a new name, Rock, but in entrusting to Simon the keys of the kingdom, He is borrowing a phrase from Isaiah 22. He’s quoting a verse in the Old Testament that was extremely well known. This, for me, was the breakthrough. This discovery was the most important discovery of all. Let’s go back to Isaiah 22 and see what Jesus was doing when He entrusted to Peter the keys of the kingdom.

By the way, I do not find hardly any Catholic defenders of the faith these days with awareness of this particular point. This was the point above all points for me. It was the point that the defenders of the Catholic faith in the 16th and 17th Centuries were very aware of, but for some reason amnesia has set in upon many defenders and interpreters not aware of how crucial this particular passage is. In Isaiah 22 beginning back in verses 19 and 20, we have some very interesting background. This is where Jesus goes for a quotation to cite this passage.

What’s happening here? Well, in verse 19 it says, ā€œI will thrust you from your office and you will be cast down from your station and on that day I will call my servant Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah, and I will clothe him with your robe and will bind your girdle on him and will commit your authority to his hand, and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the House of Judah; and I will place on his shoulder the key of the House of David.ā€

Now the House of David is like, you know, the House of Bourbon. It’s a dynastic reference. The House of David is the Davidic kingdom, the Davidic dynasty. We know this because David has been dead for hundreds of years when this is happening in Isaiah 22, ā€œI will give you the key of the House of David. He shall open and none shall shut, and he shall shut and none shall open. He will become a throne of honor to his father’s house.ā€ Look at all of the symbols of dynastic authority that are being given to this individual. First of all, an office. Second, a robe. Third, a throne and fourth, keys, the key of the House of David, these royal keys.

Now, what is going on here? I’ll just summarize it in rather simple terms. Hezekiah was at the time, the king over Israel. He was the son of David, hundreds of years after David had died. He was in the line of David and also he was ruler over the House of David. Now all kings in the ancient world had, as kings and queens have these days, cabinet officers, a cabinet of royal ministers. Like Margaret Thatcher is the Prime Minister, so there are other ministers under the Queen in Great Britain. Hezekiah, as King, had as his Prime Minister before Shebna who proved unworthy. So he was expelled, but when he was expelled, he left an office vacant. Not only did you have dynastic succession for the king, but you also have a dynastic office for the Prime Minister. When Shebna is expelled, there is an empty office that needs to be filled and that’s why Eliakim is called to fill it.

catholic-pages.com/pope/hahn.asp
 
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