I am so darned tired of bad liturgical experiences!

[robwar]

We are not protestants. We don’t follow a literal interpretation of St. Paul as the foundation of our Faith. If Christ spoke those words, you might (might) have an argument. But the Magisterium dictates these matters, not individual, isolated Bible quotations.

I am tired of pro-veil people (and I wear one!) trying to push a PERSONAL PREFERENCE on everyone else, due to one Scripture verse. Scripture says if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. Well, pal? Getting ready to blind yourself? If your hand causes you to sin, chop it off. Got that ax ready? I didn’t think so?

I have never seen pro-veil people push their agenda. If you are wearing one yourself what is your point here?

 

[robwar]

I am so tired of bad bishops! If not for some of them, many of these Mass Disasters would not be happening.

have you spent any time praying for them? what are you defining as bad bishops? It is easy to complain about bishops but are you doing to part and earnestly praying for them?

 

[TimothyH]

Very well put. for those on this thread that are complaining about Bishops and Priests, have you honestly tried to pray for them or are you praying for them? If you are going to mass in order to pick it apart for what it is or isn’t doing you will end up with the stuff and attitudes being expressed here. If you are going to mass to encounter the living God in the 2 parts of mass liturgy of the Word and the Eucharist that is what you will encounter. it is all too easy to go to mass, pick it apart and then come on a public forum like this to complain. If you are concern about what is happening in your mass, have you tried to be a part of the worship committee in your parish? have you tried to be even apart of it in being an usher, lector, EM etc. have you tried to train and become a sacristan which is often the person who is organizing the mass? it is very sad to see what probably are concerns about liturgical problems yet instead of being positive and involved to make changes you undermined your credibility by gripping on the internet for the world to see.

Every parish needs more sacristans. Sacristans are a hidden ministry, and they work hard, but If you want to have a direct impact on the reverence at Mass (and a key to the Church ), become a sacristan, or an altar server. I realize that not everyone is called to these ministries, but if you are, altar serving and setting up before the Mass and tearing down after are great ways to have a positive impact on the Mass.

I had a woman come up to me in the grocery store and tell me that she went to Mass on some random Saturday morning and didn’t realize that we had adult altar servers, that it added dignity and reverence to the Mass and that she was proud to be a part of it all. That’s what sacristan and altar servering is all about - taking the burden off the priest so that he can pray the Mass instead of worrying about finger bowls and candles being lit and if there are enough hosts in the bread plate.

-Tim-

 

[robwar]

When it comes to the liturgy I get so darned tired of bad experiences!

On one extreme end we have the sexism/feminism, felt banners, adobe-colored vestments, missing vestments, wood/glass sacred vessels, abusive use of EMcHC, loud talking in church, rings of people around the altar, abusive inclusive language, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

On the other end we have the reactionaries. Only the -]EF Mass/-] TLM, holier than though attitudes, everything they don’t personally care for is an “abuse”, no women in liturgical roles no matter what the Church actually allows, veils worn as crowns of piety, severe behavior towards others, dress like it’s 1955 or risk scorn, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Sadly these two extremes constitute far too many of the Catholic liturgies celebrated today.

I realize we are humans and suffer from the reality of Original Sin. One would think however that with God’s Grace the experience we receive when we attend a liturgy or get involved in a parish would not be as marginal (or downright awful) as it too often is.

We humans – sinners that we are, should be doing a far better job with God’s Church. I am finding this more and more frustrating.

I think you need to check your own attitude as you go to mass. Have you ever tried to be involved in the mass in some way? Are you yourself looking to encounter God no matter what is going on around you or are you going looking at others and judging them base on what they are or aren’t doing, getting mad at the Priest and blaming him for everything that is wrong? you are talking about extremes but the extreme here is attitude. When I go to mass, it is to encounter God and that is not going to be disturbed no matter what else is or isn’t going on. If you are going to mass with a critical eye, you will leave as you are not happy and dissatisfied. If you are going to mass to encounter the living God in the Eucharist then that is what you will encounter and mass will be satisfying no matter what is or isn’t going on.

 

[robwar]

Every parish needs more sacristans. Sacristans are a hidden ministry, and they work hard, but If you want to have a direct impact on the reverence at Mass (and a key to the Church ), become a sacristan, or an altar server. I realize that not everyone is called to these ministries, but if you are, altar serving and setting up before the Mass and tearing down after are great ways to have a positive impact on the Mass.

I had a woman come up to me in the grocery store and tell me that she went to Mass on some random Saturday morning and didn’t realize that we had adult altar servers, that it added dignity and reverence to the Mass and that she was proud to be a part of it all. That’s what sacristan and altar servering is all about - taking the burden off the priest so that he can pray the Mass instead of worrying about finger bowls and candles being lit and if there are enough hosts in the bread plate.

-Tim-

Amen and Amen, I am a lector and since becoming involved in the mass, my own eyes and attitude and involvement has changed. if more of these complainers were involved directly in some way with mass, I think we would not have these threads on CAF.

 

[Zosimus41]

When it comes to the liturgy I get so darned tired of bad experiences!

You know I find it interesting. If you were to talk to the parish preist about it…THEY DONT WANT TO HEAR IT!

Liturgical abuse is our golden calf. What was it 40 days Moses went to Mt Sanai
to get the commandments and in less than 40 days they were worshiping the golden calf.

We have so many things in this world that work against the teaching of the church.

Women’s rights= women preist
Pollitically correctness=Be who you are.Do what you want.
The right to choose.

Yes I know not all think this way but I believe a lot of people do.

 

[asd72]

Very well put. for those on this thread that are complaining about Bishops and Priests, have you honestly tried to pray for them or are you praying for them? If you are going to mass in order to pick it apart for what it is or isn’t doing you will end up with the stuff and attitudes being expressed here. If you are going to mass to encounter the living God in the 2 parts of mass liturgy of the Word and the Eucharist that is what you will encounter. it is all too easy to go to mass, pick it apart and then come on a public forum like this to complain. If you are concern about what is happening in your mass, have you tried to be a part of the worship committee in your parish? have you tried to be even apart of it in being an usher, lector, EM etc. have you tried to train and become a sacristan which is often the person who is organizing the mass? it is very sad to see what probably are concerns about liturgical problems yet instead of being positive and involved to make changes you undermined your credibility by gripping on the internet for the world to see.

I think you and Timothy have the good points. Very definitely for me it is not people who hold hands during the Our Father that primarily effects my spiritual progress, it is my sin which I struggle with loads! Of course it’s good to have a beautiful Mass which reflects to the senses the reality of Mass as heaven on earth, but that reality is there regardless and we should be trying to focus on that.

And the fact of the matter is venting to others on here achieves nothing positive, prayer and action keeping in mind charity and respecting authority would be more productive I would think.

 

[robwar]

Jegudiel;9270141:

When it comes to the liturgy I get so darned tired of bad experiences!

You know I find it interesting. If you were to talk to the parish preist about it…THEY DONT WANT TO HEAR IT!

Liturgical abuse is our golden calf. What was it 40 days Moses went to Mt Sanai
to get the commandments and in less than 40 days they were worshiping the golden calf.

We have so many things in this world that work against the teaching of the church.

Women’s rights= women preist
Pollitically correctness=Be who you are.Do what you want.
The right to choose.

Yes I know not all think this way but I believe a lot of people do.

It depends how you go to and approach the Priest. You will have more of his ear if you are already involved in the mass and the parish. Priests are often spread way too thin so someone who comes up to them with complaints about the mass will more than likely just get blown off. You also have the worship committee in a parish which does oversee the mass and how the church is decorated. Just as Tim H. pointed out, becoming a Sacristan is the hidden but most important way to have influence on the mass and its reverence.
To just say Priests don’t want to hear it is more about the priest being spread too thin and what most likely was an ineffective approach to the Priest.

 

[superamazingman]

We are not protestants. We don’t follow a literal interpretation of St. Paul as the foundation of our Faith. If Christ spoke those words, you might (might) have an argument. But the Magisterium dictates these matters, not individual, isolated Bible quotations.

But for so long, the magisterium required them for women, to obviously the pro-veilers are on the right track.

 

[Megan7]

But for so long, the magisterium required them for women, to obviously the pro-veilers are on the right track.

 

[DJK100]

When it comes to the liturgy I get so darned tired of bad experiences!

On one extreme end we have the sexism/feminism, felt banners, adobe-colored vestments, missing vestments, wood/glass sacred vessels, abusive use of EMcHC, loud talking in church, rings of people around the altar, abusive inclusive language, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

On the other end we have the reactionaries. Only the -]EF Mass/-] TLM, holier than though attitudes, everything they don’t personally care for is an “abuse”, no women in liturgical roles no matter what the Church actually allows, veils worn as crowns of piety, severe behavior towards others, dress like it’s 1955 or risk scorn, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Sadly these two extremes constitute far too many of the Catholic liturgies celebrated today.

I realize we are humans and suffer from the reality of Original Sin. One would think however that with God’s Grace the experience we receive when we attend a liturgy or get involved in a parish would not be as marginal (or downright awful) as it too often is.

We humans – sinners that we are, should be doing a far better job with God’s Church. I am finding this more and more frustrating.

My advice is to get the GIRM and then join/start a liturgy committee. Start trying to fix the problems by taking more active control. Just know that it will be hard a first.

 

[Zosimus41]

Zosimus41;9271616:

It depends how you go to and approach the Priest. You will have more of his ear if you are already involved in the mass and the parish. Priests are often spread way too thin so someone who comes up to them with complaints about the mass will more than likely just get blown off. You also have the worship committee in a parish which does oversee the mass and how the church is decorated. Just as Tim H. pointed out, becoming a Sacristan is the hidden but most important way to have influence on the mass and its reverence.
To just say Priests don’t want to hear it is more about the priest being spread too thin and what most likely was an ineffective approach to the Priest.

I get your point. But its not like the preist has no idea these things are going on and he has no idea its not correct. I think its more the people and lack of education on how things should be done and its up to the preist to set things right however I believe most preist dont want to “make waves” in correcting the people who volunteer.

One only has to go to YOUTUBE type in Michael Voris or Cardincal Arinze to see its not just a matter of being active in your parish and having a heart to heart with the preist.

I have been very involved with my parish and other parishes. Knights of Columbus,prayer groups, teaching re. Even with the GIRM on my side I have made no head way.

Reality is PC has crept into the church and its going to take someone with power i.e. the pope to get things back on track.

 

[Zosimus41]

My advice is to get the GIRM and then join/start a liturgy committee. Start trying to fix the problems by taking more active control. Just know that it will be hard a first.

AMEN

Because the GIRM is the truth and you know how unpopular the truth can be!

 

[TimothyH]

Zosimus41;9271616:

It depends how you go to and approach the Priest. You will have more of his ear if you are already involved in the mass and the parish. Priests are often spread way too thin so someone who comes up to them with complaints about the mass will more than likely just get blown off. You also have the worship committee in a parish which does oversee the mass and how the church is decorated. Just as Tim H. pointed out, becoming a Sacristan is the hidden but most important way to have influence on the mass and its reverence.
To just say Priests don’t want to hear it is more about the priest being spread too thin and what most likely was an ineffective approach to the Priest.

Oh man, the priest gets an ear full from the sacristan! If you want the priest to listen to you then become a sacristian.

Our lead sacristan has her own parking spot, closer to the vestry than the pastor. She is 83 years old, spent 30 years in the air force, and she is not afraid to put her hand on her hip, slam a book down on the counter, look at up at Father who is two feet taller than her, and say, “You know Father, we’re not supposed to be doing such and such and I’m not doing it!” I heard her scold a priest for spilling wine on the altar linens too often and she was right - this priest gave me a soggy host more than once when I was altar serving - he spilled the precious blood into the ciborium. Intinction anyone?

Seriouly, sacristans are the hidden support structure of the liturgy. They order the hosts and the candles and the wine, and have a huge (name removed by moderator)ut into what works well and what doesn’t, down to what type of fabric and what type of buttons should be on the cassocks.

Priests rely on their sacristans more than most of us know, and a good sacristan is as good as gold.

-Tim-