I am so scared! Please help!

[former_Catholic]

In order to care for any minor children, you have to have at the very least the signed written legal permission of the parent(s) in order to authorize medical care for any of them in case of medical emergency. Without that, in the event of any medical emergency you and the child are helpless as you do not have the authority to authorize medical treatment for the child without signed written permission of the parent. That means the kid sprains and ankle or breaks an arm and you are left with a screaming child waiting in the waiting room down at hospital emergency because nobody whatsoever has got the authority to treat that child.
You cannot register minor children for school unless you are their parent or legal guardian.
You cannot sign and update their school registration for this school year unless you are their parent or legal guardian.
Your insurance will not cover these children as you have no legal right to these children.
In the event of the incapacitation of the mother, their fathers still have parental rights to their children unless those rights have been revoked by a court of law, and those rights may well include visitation with the child and/or custody of the child in the event of the inability, death or incapacitation of the mother, and you have no legal basis on which to interfere with that whatsoever.
You need to contact social services/child protective services/the city attorney’s office or whatever local authority there is handy and inform them of this situation immediately because your “pact” with the mother legally means absolutely nothing in terms of these children.
You have absolutely no legal right nor authority to these children as far as the state is concerned. The authorities need to be informed of this situation immediately. It is for your own legal protection. It is also for the children’s legal protection. It is also for the parents’ and relatives legal protection. What time the kids are supposed to go to bed is not important. The legal status of these kids is EXTREMELY important. Their mother is not competent to care for them if her 11 year old phones you and tells you that mom is threatening suicide. These kids are going to need social and mental health services that you cannot hardly hope to provide all on your own, even if a court did grant you custody of them, and right now *you have no legally established custody rights to these kids whatsoever. * In addition to that, you may already be on thin legal ice for not having reported this horrible situation of child neglect on the part of the suicidal mother to the police/authorities already. You are under legal obligation to report any situation of child abuse or neglect INCLUDING A SUICIDAL MOTHER to the authorities (child protective services) immediately.
Immediately means immediately. That is the law.

 

[flyingfish]

I think it’s very admirable that you want to take care of your friend’s children.

It is one thing to take care of them temporarily, and quite another to do so permanently. You said your husband is stressed out, you have to put your marriage ahead of this.

There are plenty of foster families out there who would be capable of looking after these children if it turns into a long term situation. The health of your marriage is more important than a pact you made with your friend. Promises are important, but promises that are made without the full understanding of the consequences are less so, and if keeping a promise made to a friend long ago before you even got married threatens your marriage you need to realize that your marriage comes first.

Generally we should not make these kinds of promises at all, precisely because we can’t predict future events. God would not expect you to keep unreasonable promises, and this one I think is an unreasonable promise. Your husband should have a say in this, and you can’t predict your future financial situation and physical and psychological ability to raise another person’s children.

 

[Cat]

In order to care for any minor children, you have to have at the very least the signed written legal permission of the parent(s) in order to authorize medical care for any of them in case of medical emergency. Without that, in the event of any medical emergency you and the child are helpless as you do not have the authority to authorize medical treatment for the child without signed written permission of the parent. That means the kid sprains and ankle or breaks an arm and you are left with a screaming child waiting in the waiting room down at hospital emergency because nobody whatsoever has got the authority to treat that child.
You cannot register minor children for school unless you are their parent or legal guardian.
You cannot sign and update their school registration for this school year unless you are their parent or legal guardian.
Your insurance will not cover these children as you have no legal right to these children.
In the event of the incapacitation of the mother, their fathers still have parental rights to their children unless those rights have been revoked by a court of law, and those rights may well include visitation with the child and/or custody of the child in the event of the inability, death or incapacitation of the mother, and you have no legal basis on which to interfere with that whatsoever.
You need to contact social services/child protective services/the city attorney’s office or whatever local authority there is handy and inform them of this situation immediately because your “pact” with the mother legally means absolutely nothing in terms of these children.
You have absolutely no legal right nor authority to these children as far as the state is concerned. The authorities need to be informed of this situation immediately. It is for your own legal protection. It is also for the children’s legal protection. It is also for the parents’ and relatives legal protection. What time the kids are supposed to go to bed is not important. The legal status of these kids is EXTREMELY important. Their mother is not competent to care for them if her 11 year old phones you and tells you that mom is threatening suicide. These kids are going to need social and mental health services that you cannot hardly hope to provide all on your own, even if a court did grant you custody of them, and right now *you have no legally established custody rights to these kids whatsoever. * In addition to that, you may already be on thin legal ice for not having reported this horrible situation of child neglect on the part of the suicidal mother to the police/authorities already. You are under legal obligation to report any situation of child abuse or neglect INCLUDING A SUICIDAL MOTHER to the authorities (child protective services) immediately.
Immediately means immediately. That is the law.

This is excellent advice. I tried to say something along these lines, but I don’t have the knowledge that this poster has. I urge you to please read this post over and over and follow the very wise advice, especially the advice about reporting the negligence. Remember, the children are helpless; as much as you are concerned about their mother, the children and their safety should be your first concern.

And I also agree with the advice about your husband. Even if he agreed verbally, it doesn’t sound like a wise plan to take in three troubled children when your husband isn’t in perfect agreement. YOUR MARRIAGE should be your number one priority in this situation. It will do these children, not to mention yourself, NO GOOD if the marriage crumbles under the stress.

In the future, before you make any life-altering decisions or promises, always check with your husband, PRAY together over the situation, and be in PERFECT agreement. The two of you are one–you can’t make these kinds of decisions without him.

 

[Carjack1]

First and foremost, my husband is in agreement with me. He just got stressed out. I just found out this is going to be temporary. We will be signing legal paperwork when she gets out. I will not hand these three children over to social services because I do love them. Handing children over to the government is very much frowned upon in my culture. Children tend to become just another case. Thank you for your advice everyone. My husband and I spoke of a plan and we will handle the situation. Yes. I do acknowledge my huband is the head of the household. I am the neck and the head turns because of it.

 

[Matt33]

I will not hand these three children over to social services because I do love them. Handing children over to the government is very much frowned upon in my culture. Children tend to become just another case.

What culture do you speak of?

There are many foster parents and great social workers who would cringe at what you are saying.
Trust me I am as anti government as they come but when dealing with children it is best to put your own agenda and ideas and misconceptions aside and focus on what is best for the kids. I have found that social workers can be very helpful in family crisises. They are trained, knowlegabe and most of the care a great deal more than you think. To close a door because of a stigma is well… not a good idea. Again, I am not saying that you are not making the right decision just that your decision should not be based on this culture you speak of. And be made with the only factors being, your marriage and the kids. I think earlier you asked what appropriate bedtimes were. I urge you to get as much help, even from the evil government as you can. This will not be easy and bedtimes will soon be an afterthought. Regardless of who is on board now, it will stress your marriage. I do admire you. But be careful.
I will pray for you.

 

[Carjack1]

What culture do you speak of? I am hispanic

There are many foster parents and great social workers who would cringe at what you are saying.
Trust me I am as anti government as they come but when dealing with children it is best to put your own agenda and ideas and misconceptions aside and focus on what is best for the kids. I have found that social workers can be very helpful in family crisises. They are trained, knowlegabe and most of the care a great deal more than you think. To close a door because of a stigma is well… not a good idea. Again, I am not saying that you are not making the right decision just that your decision should not be based on this culture you speak of. The decision was not based on cultureAnd be made with the only factors being, your marriage and the kids. I think earlier you asked what appropriate bedtimes were. I urge you to get as much help, even from the evil government as you can. We go it covered. As it is only temporary. This will not be easy and bedtimes will soon be an afterthought. Regardless of who is on board now, it will stress your marriage. I do admire you. Thank you But be careful.Ok
I will pray for you.

 

[JustAnotherThou]

First and foremost, my husband is in agreement with me. He just got stressed out. I just found out this is going to be temporary. We will be signing legal paperwork when she gets out. I will not hand these three children over to social services because I do love them. Handing children over to the government is very much frowned upon in my culture. Children tend to become just another case. Thank you for your advice everyone. My husband and I spoke of a plan and we will handle the situation. Yes. I do acknowledge my huband is the head of the household. I am the neck and the head turns because of it.

Carjack, I believe what you and your husband can and are willing to do for these children is wonderful. Of course your husband may stress, how many new dads and moms have we heard on this board that are stressed!! God brings us children in ways we will never understand or even imagine!!

To clear up some stuff: You don’t have to contact your local social services. Although, if you have them for an extended period of time, lets say more than a week, and have to enroll them in school you do need to get some type of guardianship. You can probably ask your priest if there is an attorney in your parish that can help. I know we have one in ours that works with fellow parishioners on matters such as this. He usually does it at a reduced cost or free.

Before you talk to mom about any of this, you should first talk to her case worker. They probably won’t be able to tell you much, although it is best to screen things through them rather than put more burden on her than she can take at this time.

Just because this happened it does not mean that she still can’t care, love and protect her children in the future. If they do go back to her before you get some type of guardianship, it would be best to bring this up to her as soon as you believe she can handle it and make sure something is set up just in case anything happens.

If finances are a problem, you could contact social services, they would probably do everything they could to keep them in your home and get you through foster parenting classes ASAP!!! In that case you could receive foster care per diem, it is not a lot, although it does help. It would put the children and your friend at the mercy of the State. But I can pretty much promise you that almost every social services office in the country would rather try to work with you than have to place a sibling group!!!

I know people think it is cliché, although remember, God only gives you what you can handle!! Your friend and her children are very blessed to have you and your husband!!

If you need to vent or anything feel free to PM me!!

 

[Writer]

Is there a legal arrangement? When you say “made a pact,” did you just make a verbal agreement? Is there anything in writing?

If there is no legal arrangement, I doubt the State would allow you to just take her kids. They would go to foster care first, and you would have to petition to gain custody. I have my doubts that a girlfriend pact would stand up in a court. If it were written, signed, and witnessed, perhaps it would hold up. But I really don’t think the court would turn three children over to another young woman who isn’t a relative.

I hope everything turns out OK for her, her children, and you and your husband.

I’d agree with this post. Your personal arragnements should not have a great deal of bearing as far as the state is concerned. You should remember to safeguard your home and marriage and be careful about obligating yourself in ways that could put you and your family’s well being at serious risk and jeopardy. You’re not responsible to clean up your friend’s mess, but you can continue to help her in what ways are available.

 

[Matt33]

Carjack,
There has been some very good advice on this thread. I just want to second that there are services that you really can tap into that will help. You said that culture wan’t part of your decision but a couple posts earlier you said it was. Statistics do not back up your assertion of your culture’s taboo. Perhaps it is a personal one.

 

[choose_to_love]

Carjack, I do not want to seem like I am piling on, but you really should consider calling social services. You must consider what is best in this particular moment for these particular children. This does not sound like a tenable long-term situation at present. It was only about a year ago you yourself were posting here that you were suicidal, thinking about praying to get cancer, etc. To have three children suddenly placed into your home with no preparation just sounds like asking for trouble.

where is the children’s bio dad? Is there a custody order between bio dad and your friend?

Are they registered for school? Are you in the same district as your friend?

In addition, I would question the validity of any supposedly binding document that anyone would execute upon coming out of a psychiatric hospitalization, as their capacity would have to be an issue.

 

[Carjack1]

Carjack, I do not want to seem like I am piling on, but you really should consider calling social services.I will not be calling them. My husband and I decided to handle it You must consider what is best in this particular moment for these particular children. I know handing children over to the goverment, while having a supportive system of friends and family is not the best for them This does not sound like a tenable long-term situation at present. It was only about a year ago you yourself were posting here that you were suicidal, thinking about praying to get cancer, etc. To have three children suddenly placed into your home with no preparation just sounds like asking for trouble.Thank you for bringing up painful things I was going through a year ago. I do not know how helping children is asking for trouble.

where is the children’s bio dad?Gone Is there a custody order between bio dad and your friend? She has full custody

Are they registered for school? Yes Are you in the same district as your friend?No. I have been driving them to school

In addition, I would question the validity of any supposedly binding document that anyone would execute upon coming out of a psychiatric hospitalization, as their capacity would have to be an issue.

Her wishes were that I would stay with the children if something should happen to her. This comment was made verbally, in front of many witnesses, in case it were to become an issue. I cross that path when I get to it.

 

[Carjack1]

Carjack,
There has been some very good advice on this thread. I just want to second that there are services that you really can tap into that will help. You said that culture wan’t part of your decision but a couple posts earlier you said it was. Statistics .It’s not personal. Being that you are not a part of my culture, I think that was presumptive of you to state.

 

[Sunflower15]

I think it is wonderful that those children have you and your husband to watch over them! You sound very mature and reliable! I have been a single mom of three kids [sons] and understand that it at times [not too often and not for long!] can get overwhelming. Thus is LIFE, kids or no kids!

Routines are good, try to find something that works for all of you. BE FLEXIBLE! If a great plan does not produce harmony and a sense of belonging to a family, then it is not a good plan at all! And, even a great plan that works needs ‘fine tuning’ from time to time, or a ‘break’ to keep life enjoyable. Above all, try to be as fair and equitative as possible among the three, and to foster a sense of ‘family’ by repeating that each helps the rest…that things are worked out together. In a short time, you and your husband will be great parents!

The most important thing these kids need is a sense that they can count on someone! That they are valuable, and loved! They must feel ‘marginal’ at this time. I would tell them things will get better…sometimes there are ‘bumps’ on the road…

Also, kids love to hear angel stories. I would tell them about angels and their guardian angels in particular, as well as calling on Archangel Michael when they are scared. I would teach them to pray together and individually. I would also show them movies of saints…these things are ‘absorbed’ by kids as if they were sponges! [especially in times of uncertainty].

 

[choose_to_love]

carjack,

I am not referencing your posting history in order to bring up painful memories, but to include all factors that will affect the best interests of the children at issue. In that sense, it’s not about you, or what promises you made; it’s about the kids. On the other hand, you and your husband do not have any substantial experience parenting. Don’t get me wrong, I think it is admirable, commendable, and wonderful that you are being open fully to these dear kids in their hour of need. I am getting the sense that you are doing what you feel obligated to do (willingly, of course) and that may not necessarily be what is really in their long term best interest, or yours. I think, and I have done some dependency work, that social services will be thrilled to have your family as a resource for the kids, but then you can be sure that both you and the kids are getting any services that are needed.

What counseling have you looked into obtaining for the kids?

Would you at least consider calling your local legal services, if you do not have an attorney? palegalservices.org/finder/north_penn_legal_services.htm
Your consultation would be confidential, and you can make sure whatever agreement you make with your friend is as effective and correct as possible.

If this is to be any kind of long term situation, I think, but am not positive, that living/residing in one district and going to school in another one is not looked upon well by the nonresident district, absent a court order. Again, a good reason to contact an attorney.

 

[Carjack1]

carjack,

I am not referencing your posting history in order to bring up painful memories, but to include all factors that will affect the best interests of the children at issue. In that sense, it’s not about you, or what promises you made; it’s about the kids. On the other hand, you and your husband do not have any substantial experience parenting. Don’t get me wrong, I think it is admirable, commendable, and wonderful that you are being open fully to these dear kids in their hour of need. I am getting the sense that you are doing what you feel obligated to do (willingly, of course) and that may not necessarily be what is really in their long term best interest, or yours. I think, and I have done some dependency work, that social services will be thrilled to have your family as a resource for the kids, but then you can be sure that both you and the kids are getting any services that are needed.

What counseling have you looked into obtaining for the kids?

Would you at least consider calling your local legal services, if you do not have an attorney? palegalservices.org/finder/north_penn_legal_services.htm
Your consultation would be confidential, and you can make sure whatever agreement you make with your friend is as effective and correct as possible.

If this is to be any kind of long term situation, I think, but am not positive, that living/residing in one district and going to school in another one is not looked upon well by the nonresident district, absent a court order. Again, a good reason to contact an attorney.

I will look up those resources. Thank you. My friend called her caseworker and let them know what is going on. I am going to call the parish.

 

[Matt33]

.

It’s not personal. Being that you are not a part of my culture, I think that was presumptive of you to state.

You are the one who referenced culture. I am unaware of any culture in America other than the amish and some militias that do not utilize social services or that detest them more than any other culture. Are you insinuating that some cultures DO like giving children to the government? I think that the culture argument is not applicable here and it is misleading for you to use it as a tool of justification of your decision. And as for presuming… It is presumptuous of you to assume I am not part of your culture. Why in the world is it more taboo to use knowlege and logic and help from servisces than to do what the parents of these kids have done?
Many social service workers HAVE to have multi linguistic capabilities. Why is that? perhaps becasue we are all one society taking care of each other in a charitable moral, and holy manner, unseperated by the “you don’t know me” attitude of seperating cultures out.
Use social services… to rule it out only shows that the best interest of the kids is not the priority but maby pride is.

 

[PrairieMom]

GET HELP from the state. Contact a social worker who can help you do this correctly. Truly I cannot say say what you are doing is right or wrong I sure don’t envey you and I will pray for you.

I also would advise you to contact a social worker. I have worked with them a lot in the past, and our family currently has one to help with our special-needs child. Generally, they will do whatever possible to ensure the long-term stability for the kids. They can also help get financial aid and programs in place to assist both you (and your husband) AND mom when she’s well enough to resume care of her brood.

And, obviously, pray.

 

[Carjack1]

.
You are the one who referenced culture. I am unaware of any culture in America other than the amish and some militias that do not utilize social services or that detest them more than any other culture. Are you insinuating that some cultures DO like giving children to the government?No. I am not. I was stating that it is not something that we do. I think that the culture argument is not applicable here It is. Thank you for your opinionand it is misleading for you to use it as a tool of justification of your decision. It is not misleading. As I am a part of that culture. Also I do not need to justify my actions. My decison was not based on culture. It was based on what the mother, myself, and my husband thought And as for presuming… It is presumptuous of you to assume I am not part of your culture. If you are hispanic than state it. Saying statistics in reference to my culture was a bit of a give away that you are not hispanic. If I am wrong, I apologize Why in the world is it more taboo to use knowlege and logic and help from servisces than to do what the parents of these kids have done?It is taboo to give children away to someone who is unknown, then to let them stay with someone who loves and cares for them and is known
Many social service workers HAVE to have multi linguistic capabilities. Why is that? perhaps becasue we are all one society taking care of each other in a charitable moral, and holy manner, unseperated by the “you don’t know me” attitude of seperating cultures out.
Use social services… to rule it out only shows that the best interest of the kids is not the priority but maby pride is.

To suggest that my husband and I have made adjustments in our lives in the last 24 hours, all for the name of pride, is arrogant. Just because I will not call social services

 

[Carjack1]

I also would advise you to contact a social worker. I have worked with them a lot in the past, and our family currently has one to help with our special-needs child. Generally, they will do whatever possible to ensure the long-term stability for the kids. They can also help get financial aid and programs in place to assist both you (and your husband) AND mom when she’s well enough to resume care of her brood.

And, obviously, pray.

The mother contacted the caseworker to discuss this. I meet with her and the caseworker today.

 

[Matt33]

You are the one who referenced culture. I am unaware of any culture in America other than the amish and some militias that do not utilize social services or that detest them more than any other culture. Are you insinuating that some cultures DO like giving children to the government?No. I am not. I was stating that it is not something that we do. I think that the culture argument is not applicable here It is. Thank you for your opinionand it is misleading for you to use it as a tool of justification of your decision. It is not misleading. As I am a part of that culture. Also I do not need to justify my actions. My decison was not based on culture. It was based on what the mother, myself, and my husband thought And as for presuming… It is presumptuous of you to assume I am not part of your culture. If you are hispanic than state it. Saying statistics in reference to my culture was a bit of a give away that you are not hispanic. If I am wrong, I apologize Why in the world is it more taboo to use knowlege and logic and help from servisces than to do what the parents of these kids have done?It is taboo to give children away to someone who is unknown, then to let them stay with someone who loves and cares for them and is known
Many social service workers HAVE to have multi linguistic capabilities. Why is that? perhaps becasue we are all one society taking care of each other in a charitable moral, and holy manner, unseperated by the “you don’t know me” attitude of seperating cultures out.
Use social services… to rule it out only shows that the best interest of the kids is not the priority but maby pride is.

To suggest that my husband and I have made adjustments in our lives in the last 24 hours, all for the name of pride, is arrogant. Just because I will not call social services

Look, all I am saying is that hispanic culture is not unique in this area. My wife is hispanic, I am an educated, adult in the USA, i know something of other cultures including hispanics. Imagine if a white person said “Our culture doesn’t belive in social services” Now who is arrogant?
But honestly lets just take culture out of it which is where it belongs.
You may call what I said arrogant. But to make changes in your life for a whole 24 hours, and refuse to educate yourself on ALL possible avenues based on your own stereotypes only can be not only arogant and prideful but also ignorant. I pray that I am just misunderstanding your opinion.
lets review some facts for a second.

1. A mom who is suicidal and mentaly unfit,
2. At least one dad who is diagnosed mentaly ill The other gone… (hope that isn’t a cultural thing that I couldn’t understand)
3. An aunt… now taking custody who a year ago was mentaly ill and suicidal.
4. A grandma who is an alchoholic.
   Yeah, you are right… social services is a bad idea who knows what unstable circumstances these kids could end up in.
   I am not trying to be mean, I truley want the best for these kids and you. I hope your decision is the right one.

At first… I was neutral on this but the more the thought process is exposed the more concerns I have. One thing is for sure… some counseling for these kids is a moral imperative especially with the history of family mental illness and instability.
A tragedy this is. I only hope that with God’s help you can bring goodness to the situation. Good luck and Godspeed. Prayers for you and your family.