I Am The Mind of the Universe

[freesoulhope]

Assuming that there was no immaterial soul, and that conciousness was nothing more then a chemical reaction in a complex nervous system; would it be right to think of are selves as distinct indivisuals? Or rather; are we instead the multiple personal conciousness of the universe? In other words, the universe itself is one being, which has become concious through a meduim of multiple biological organisms; a sort of universal conciousness. If the latter; is indivisuality a man made illusion, or could they be both true?

Peace.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Assuming that there was no immaterial soul, and that conciousness was nothing more then a chemical reaction in a complex nervous system; would it be right to think of are selves as distinct indivisuals? Or rather; are we instead the multiple personal conciousness of the universe? In other words, the universe itself is one being, which has become concious through a meduim of multiple biological organisms; a sort of universal conciousness. If the latter; is indivisuality a man made illusion, or could they be both true?

Peace.

Option 2. Individuality is an illusion.

Peace…

MW

 

[catharina]

There’s nothing new under the sun. It sounds as if both of you swallowed the works of Carl Jung. Those of us who are Catholic can be quite certain that individuality is very real and is an absolute gift of God. (We are not parts of a “splintered” God.)

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

There’s nothing new under the sun. It sounds as if both of you swallowed the works of Carl Jung. Those of us who are Catholic can be quite certain that individuality is very real and is an absolute gift of God. (We are not parts of a “splintered” God.)

What does the Biblical quote have to do with anything? Just didn’t get it.

LOL, actually I’ve never read his works, only allusions to his works. You can’t be quite certain of anything my friend. I thought I was certain of everything, but found that my understanding was sorely lacking (and still is).

You will admit with me and the Bible that God is spirit? that God is love? that God is light? that He has never been seen by mortal man? We are created in his image, but not the physical image. If we were as He is, then he would be physical, but you can see He is not.

What gives us any reason to believe that we are not spirit, that we are not love and that we are not light instead of this material manifestation? If we are as He is, according to the Scriptures, then we are not physical in reality.

Peace…

MW

 

[davidv]

What does the Biblical quote have to do with anything? Just didn’t get it.

LOL, actually I’ve never read his works, only allusions to his works. You can’t be quite certain of anything my friend. I thought I was certain of everything, but found that my understanding was sorely lacking (and still is).

You will admit with me and the Bible that God is spirit?

Agreed

that God is love?

Agreed

that God is light?

Agreed

that He has never been seen by mortal man?We are created in his image, but not the physical image. If we were as He is, then he would be physical, but you can see He is not.

Not true. God was incarnated as a human, Jesus.

What gives us any reason to believe that we are not spirit, that we are not love and that we are not light instead of this material manifestation? If we are as He is, according to the Scriptures, then we are not physical in reality.

Peace…

MW

See above

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

Not true. God was incarnated as a human, Jesus.

See above

Here it gets tricky. I was specifically referring to God the Father, not God the Son. No one has seen the Father, except the Son (as Jesus professed) and which was my point. Moses saw him only in a burning bush, not in a physical form that walks up to you and shakes your hand.

I have trouble with the wording you posted. It’s too simplistic to say that “God” was incarnated as a human, Jesus. It took many books of Scriptures to discuss that issue and I doubt we could get through it ourselves after quite some time.

My points were: God the Father has never been seen by mortal man. His personal characteristics have been described with non-physical properties in Scripture (such as love, light and spirit).

Although Genesis speaks of God walking in the garden and speaking and in Exodus it is said He wrote the original Ten Commandments with his fingers, these seem to be anthropomorphisms to me.

Since you say that God incarnated in human form as Jesus, then would you say that we are made in Jesus’s image or God’s or are they one and the same image? And are you then stating that God the Father has a physical form?

Peace…

MW

 

[davidv]

Here it gets tricky. I was specifically referring to God the Father, not God the Son. No one has seen the Father, except the Son (as Jesus professed) and which was my point. Moses saw him only in a burning bush, not in a physical form that walks up to you and shakes your hand.

I have trouble with the wording you posted. It’s too simplistic to say that “God” was incarnated as a human, Jesus. It took many books of Scriptures to discuss that issue and I doubt we could get through it ourselves after quite some time.

My points were: God the Father has never been seen by mortal man. His personal characteristics have been described with non-physical properties in Scripture (such as love, light and spirit).

Although Genesis speaks of God walking in the garden and speaking and in Exodus it is said He wrote the original Ten Commandments with his fingers, these seem to be anthropomorphisms to me.

Since you say that God incarnated in human form as Jesus, then would you say that we are made in Jesus’s image or God’s or are they one and the same image? And are you then stating that God the Father has a physical form?

Peace…

MW

I believe you are asking me to explain a mystery, which am completely incapable of doing. But here are some very fallable thoughts on the matter:

As “persons” Father, Son and Holy Spirit are unique, yet they share the same nature (divine). There is only one God.

Our nature is “human”. In his incarnation Jesus took on human nature. In this way God made himself visible. In this nature, he lived out perfectly our human nuture.

God’s image, visibly, is Jesus, perfectly, in each of us, imperfectly.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

I believe you are asking me to explain a mystery, which am completely incapable of doing. But here are some very fallable thoughts on the matter:

As “persons” Father, Son and Holy Spirit are unique, yet they share the same nature (divine). There is only one God.

Our nature is “human”. In his incarnation Jesus took on human nature. In this way God made himself visible. In this nature, he lived out perfectly our human nuture.

God’s image, visibly, is Jesus, perfectly, in each of us, imperfectly.

Mystic Warrior:

that He has never been seen by mortal man?We are created in his image, but not the physical image. If we were as He is, then he would be physical, but you can see He is not.

davidv:

Not true. God was incarnated as a human, Jesus.

This brings me back to the second set of quotes by you and I.

My position was that God the Father has no physical body and that we humans are therefore not created in his (non-existent) physical image, but in his image of love, light and spirit.

If God the Father is spirit and we are made in his image (which is spirit), then we are both spiritual beings, not physical beings. That doesn’t mean He or us can’t inhabit a physical body (which we humans appear to be), but that we are spiritual by nature and physical in manifestation.

I’m far from being able to explain the mysteries of the Christian faith or any other for that matter. I putter around the best I can to make sense of it all. I have a passion for the search though.

Peace…

MW

 

[Nita]

What gives us any reason to believe that we are not spirit, that we are not love and that we are not light instead of this material manifestation?

Peace…

MW

COMMON SENSE. A very important “sense” in philosophy and psychology.

Nita

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

COMMON SENSE. A very important “sense” in philosophy and psychology.

Nita

You firmly believe in things you can’t see Nita. What makes you believe what you see, hear, taste, touch, etc is real? The senses aren’t perfect. The mind loves to play tricks.

Peace…

MW

 

[catharina]

MW, first I agree with you on NOTHING since you’ve proven your tendency to hold mental reservations on statements that might seem to be truthful. Going back to a false assumption by you? You call me "friend."I’m not your friend by any means.

You stand against Truth, pure and simple. I read your other thread’s reference to Esther Hicks whose ‘foolishness brought some enligtenment to you;’ that explained a lot.
Link to Post # 12
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3269786#post3269786post3269786

Your public profile desribes your religious status as “Christian Mystic.” I assure you, you are not one. By no means am I convinced that you’re a Christian at all. I am quite certain of the reality of my own flesh and blood. I.e., cut me, I bleed and the wound causes pain to me. I’m composed of body and soul, like all of humanity.

Your denial of the REALITY of Jesus Christ in the Flesh is enough to tell me what I need to know of your “Christianity.” Whatever your belief system, it’s not Christian. Jesus Christ Our Lord, the Word of God was and is made flesh. Whoever said you are any kind of Christian??? You’re denying a basic tenet of the Christian faith.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

MW, first I agree with you on NOTHING since you’ve proven your tendency to hold mental reservations on statements that might seem to be truthful. Going back to a false assumption by you? You call me "friend."I’m not your friend by any means.

Wow. Okay. I don’t understand the animosity. This is a philosophy forum, remember? I hold mental reservations because my mind has been wrong before, but my experience with the Divine has not been. Therefore, I don’t claim my mental understanding is “there” yet. I’m surprised that you can’t have the maturity to offer friendship (even on a small level) to someone discussing mere philosophy with you.

You stand against Truth, pure and simple. I read your other thread’s reference to Esther Hicks whose ‘foolishness brought some enligtenment to you;’ that explained a lot.
Link to Post # 12
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3269786#post3269786post3269786

I stand against truth? Whose truth? I stand for the truth as I experience it directly whether physically or spiritually. And even that is suspect. I’ve studied Eastern philosophy and religions and practiced Buddhism and see truths there through experience. I’ve also experienced truth from Christianity (which I was baptized into) and studied most of my life.

You neither know me nor my life and it surprises me that you think you know me so well to make such judgments.

Your public profile desribes your religious status as “Christian Mystic.” I assure you, you are not one. By no means am I convinced that you’re a Christian at all. I am quite certain of the reality of my own flesh and blood. I.e., cut me, I bleed and the wound causes pain to me. I’m composed of body and soul, like all of humanity.

Thank you for enlightening me on exactly who I am and am not. It doesn’t matter to me if you think I’m Christian or not. I don’t base my life on people that I don’t know personally and who don’t have my highest good in mind. If you cut, you bleed and so do I, yes. What if I had cancer and it was healed? Is the cancer real? If a cut can spontaneously heal leaving no mark, was the cut real or imagined?

Your denial of the REALITY of Jesus Christ in the Flesh is enough to tell me what I need to know of your “Christianity.” Whatever your belief system, it’s not Christian. Jesus Christ Our Lord, the Word of God was and is made flesh. Whoever said you are any kind of Christian??? You’re denying a basic tenet of the Christian faith.

I never denied Jesus in the flesh at all. He was and is the Divine Son of God and God the Son, born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, died, was buried, descended to the grave, raised from the dead and ascended into Heaven. I believe the Apostles’ Creed. How He did all that I don’t know. It’s a true mystery. I have faith that such is true and I have direct experience that it is true.

I’m afraid you are not the Christian secret police. You don’t have the right to go around telling people whether or not they are a Christian. Your judgment of who a Christian is may be completely wrong. Why would I trust your judgment?

Express some maturity here. Take a few aspirin. Have a drink (please).

Peace…

MW

 

[catharina]

… I stand against truth? Whose truth? I stand for the truth as I experience it directly whether physically or spiritually. … says MW

MW - I might respond in more detail later - or not.

You stand against Truth as it is supported by the teachings of this site, a CATHOLIC FORUM, when you designate yourself as “Christian Mystic.”

Teresa of Avila, John of God, Francis of Assisi and oh yeah, YOU?

 

[catharina]

I never denied Jesus in the flesh at all. He was and is the Divine Son of God and God the Son, born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, died, was buried, descended to the grave, raised from the dead and ascended into Heaven. I believe the Apostles’ Creed. How He did all that I don’t know. It’s a true mystery. I have faith that such is true and I have direct experience that it is true. -MW

MW

Wow, silly me. You DENY saying this?

“You will admit with me and the Bible that God is spirit? that God is love? that God is light? that He has never been seen by mortal man? We are created in his image, but not the physical image. If we were as He is, then he would be physical, but you can see He is not.”

Convenient jump from denial to support. Doooohhhh.

 

[catharina]

Express some maturity here. Take a few aspirin. Have a drink (please).

Peace…

MW

Uhhh, ya’ drinking, bub?
That might explain your contradictions.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Mystic Warrior:

Originally Posted by Mystic Warrior

I never denied Jesus in the flesh at all. He was and is the Divine Son of God and God the Son, born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, died, was buried, descended to the grave, raised from the dead and ascended into Heaven. I believe the Apostles’ Creed. How He did all that I don’t know. It’s a true mystery. I have faith that such is true and I have direct experience that it is true.

Catharina:

Wow, silly me. You DENY saying this:

“You will admit with me and the Bible that God is spirit? that God is love? that God is light? that He has never been seen by mortal man? We are created in his image, but not the physical image. If we were as He is, then he would be physical, but you can see He is not.”

Catharina:

Convenient jump from denial to support. Doooohhhh.

You really should learn how to use the quote system.

I have no idea what you are talking about and your use of inserted messages is confusing.

Show me the contradiction between my two quotes and we can discuss them.

What don’t you people understand when I refer to God? I’m speaking of God the Father, not God the Son. Have you seen or has anyone seen the physical form of God the Father? No. Have you seen or anyone seen the physical form of God the Son? Yes.

The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father.

What say ye?

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

… I stand against truth? Whose truth? I stand for the truth as I experience it directly whether physically or spiritually. … says MW

MW - I might respond in more detail later - or not.

You stand against Truth as it is supported by the teachings of this site, a CATHOLIC FORUM, when you designate yourself as “Christian Mystic.”

Teresa of Avila, John of God, Francis of Assisi and oh yeah, YOU?

I bet you will respond, nastily.

Well, seeing as I’m not Catholic, that would explain our different opinions

Sorry, your church isn’t the only Christian church in the world although you think that’s true. You see, in your mind a Christian has to be Catholic and a Christian mystic has to be faithful to the Catholic Church. I don’t compare my purity or self to those people, although I don’t think their value to God is any greater. A tiny sparrow is important in His eyes.

I don’t live by your definitions, your rules, your Church or anything else you want to lord over me. If you disprove I really don’t see the point of continuing. It only angers me to converse with someone that behaves this way. To not increase my sin (and yours) we should discontinue.

I wish you peace and blessings anyway, really.

MW

 

[anthony022071]

You will admit with me and the Bible that God is spirit? that God is love? that God is light? that He has never been seen by mortal man? We are created in his image, but not the physical image. If we were as He is, then he would be physical, but you can see He is not.

What gives us any reason to believe that we are not spirit, that we are not love and that we are not light instead of this material manifestation? If we are as He is, according to the Scriptures, then we are not physical in reality.

We are created in God’s image because our rationality,our rational soul,is from God.

Our life is spirit. Life and spirit are essentially the same.
It is spirit which infuses life-forms. Spirit and life are “unknown quantities” which are extrinsic to Nature and matter. Matter,by itself,is non-living. Not everything is Nature is alive,and everything which is alive in Nature dies.
So life,and spirit,are not natural,but super-natural.

 

[catharina]

You really should learn how to use the quote system.

I have no idea what you are talking about and your use of inserted messages is confusing.

Show me the contradiction between my two quotes and we can discuss them.

What don’t you people understand when I refer to God? I’m speaking of God the Father, not God the Son. Have you seen or has anyone seen the physical form of God the Father? No. Have you seen or anyone seen the physical form of God the Son? Yes.

The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father.

What say ye?

Peace…

MW

What say I? Same as earlier.

Jesus is God. Jesus has been seen. You say no one has seen God. You imagine you can say that (as a Christian?) since in a little tiny secret corner of your mind you REALLY meant no one has seen the Father. Oh. How helpful. So since the folks who have seen Jesus saw only the Son, they did NOT see God??? They saw a slightly LESS-ER form of God?

You’ve dug quite a hole for yourself.

 

[catharina]

I bet you will respond, nastily.

Well, seeing as I’m not Catholic, that would explain our different opinions

Sorry, your church isn’t the only Christian church in the world although you think that’s true. You see, in your mind a Christian has to be Catholic and a Christian mystic has to be faithful to the Catholic Church.

…MW

I would be most interested in hearing what Christian churches are now declaring their living members to be mystics. (News to me.)